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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Hurrache

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The 17.00 update on the British Times website is running with the following, I would be very surprised if the EU would agree to this and the comments section is full of 'the EU are running scared' type posts

EU members have already said today that at best it will be as far as the EU elections, they won't let toxic British politics infect the EU any further.

wiggle16

artanevilla wrote: »

Is there any point in extending? Does anyone actually believe a deal can be reached that the British parliament will approve?

I'd say the condition will be that an extension would be considered by the EU as long as there is another referendum, ie, on whether to accept the current deal or some other rebranded form of it or to revoke Article 50 entirely.

I can't see them offering an extension so that the UK can go back to the negotiating table (this deal is the only one they are going to get, the EU can't really concede anything more than what's in there) or to prepare for a hard Brexit.

There is no reason to extend Article 50 unless the UK is willing to put it to a referendum. So, as you say, extending it as things stand is pointless.

Donald Trump

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's what I voted for in the referendum.

Also the so-called "EU" is a despicable organisation which seeks to force its will on every country. Let us not forget the crimes of Nice 2 and Lisbon 2. I support every effort to ensure the destruction of the so-called "EU" and I believe a no deal scenario is the best way forward. When I voted for Brexit I was voting for the hardest Brexit possible. That hasn't changed.

So much for the so-called "United" Kingdom.

At first, you'd feel sorry to see them disintegrate into chaos and mayhem. Directed to do so by their "betters" in the form of JRM who conveniently opened up his Dublin office of his investment vehicle in order to take advantage. Led on a merry dance with demagoguery and soundbites without any substance.

But then when you read ill-educated drivel and rhetoric like the above, I'll have to admit that a part of me wants to see those people crash and burn. Farage will retire on his EU pension and presumably to the nice warm climes of the continent by virtue of a handy German passport.

Risteard, given your username, I'll hazard a guess that you have, or can claim, an Irish passport. So you might think that it won't affect you directly. You can go and live in the EU. "I'm alright Jack". But you will have indirect problems trying to get goods or services across that border. As will your employers. And your friends and family.

EKRIUQ

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The 17.00 update on the British Times website is running with the following, I would be very surprised if the EU would agree to this and the comments section is full of 'the EU are running scared' type posts

yes but to the ordinary lay man in the UK doesn't it look like the EU are running a bit scared. After last night's vote falling over themselves wishing the UK would stay.

There is no hardline bone in the EU willing to tell the UK to get there act together and then talk of postponing Brexit for another year when they know how difficult the last 2 were. Next they will reopen negotiations.

Hurrache

Sky News mentioning the extension into next year, to which they added they're sure their viewers will lose the will to live.

I'm sure it's just another story thrown out into the ether like many of the others that were issued and later discredited.

eire4

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The 17.00 update on the British Times website is running with the following, I would be very surprised if the EU would agree to this and the comments section is full of 'the EU are running scared' type posts

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-eu-ready-to-delay-withdrawal-until-next-year-j20f9rm3h

photo website hosting

I doubt we will see that happening. The next EU elections are at the end of May this year and the seats are already apportioned now based on the exit of Britain.

Hurrache

Vaguely threatening of the backstop, it should be careful of its knees
https://twitter.com/NigelDoddsDUP/status/1085598650133286912?s=19

Water John

My understanding of tonight's No Confidence vote is that TM could come back for a second vote within 14 days.
Oh the irony, of MPs being asked to vote a second time.

Kowtow, Lb have been saying that as per there idea, staying in a CU would do away with the need of the NI backstop. Some disagree with this.

kowtow

Water John wrote: »

Kowtow, Lb have been saying that as per there idea, staying in a CU would do away with the need of the NI backstop. Some disagree with this.

Yeh I thought I had heard Corbyn say that but as a matter of principle we should surely require the backstop for NI regardless of the actual trade deal agreed... at least on the assumption that the UK is not prepared to enter a deal it cannot somehow exit of it's own volition at some point in the future.

Risteard81

branie2 wrote: »

I think they should cancel Brexit

Never.

Lackey

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Arlene Foster can go on international news and deny that there was ever a hard border in Northern Ireland - and not get called out on it.

Did you see the responses to that on Twitter ...
Comedy gold

Can I ask the knowledge people on this thread in regards to the vote tonight
Is it all for show because the voted against the deal?
Does anyone actually want May’s job right now?

Risteard81

prawnsambo wrote: »

He never answers this question. But he doesn't recognise the Irish government either, so I really wouldn't bother.

I absolutely do recognise the true Government of the Sovereign Irish Republic proclaimed in arms at Easter 1916. I also recognise that the sovereignty and unity of the Republic are inalienable and non-judicable.

prawnsambo

Water John wrote: »

My understanding of tonight's No Confidence vote is that TM could come back for a second vote within 14 days.
Oh the irony, of MPs being asked to vote a second time.

Kowtow, Lb have been saying that as per there idea, staying in a CU would do away with the need of the NI backstop. Some disagree with this.

Well yes, the CU alone isn't enough. NI has to be part of the single market too. An interesting example was given on the radio today of somebody in Donegal getting treatment for something like cancer in a Derry hospital. That would be impossible without both being in the SM. Then there's the more obvious situation of NI dairy producers getting their product processed in Ireland. That can't continue without both being in the same regulatory framework.

Risteard81

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Or do you refer to the UK as the so called UK?

I always have referred to it as such actually, so that makes you look rather silly.

It most certainly is not a united kingdom, the same way as the Brussels cabal is not uniting Europe.

prawnsambo

Risteard81 wrote: »

I absolutely do recognise the true Government of the Sovereign Irish Republic proclaimed in arms at Easter 1916. I also recognise that the sovereignty and unity of the Republic are inalienable and non-judicable.

That declaration seems to be hedged very carefully. The government that was declared in 1916 doesn't exist any more.

Risteard81

prawnsambo wrote: »

Then there's the more obvious situation of NI (sic) dairy producers getting their product processed in Ireland.

Their product is already in Ireland.

Ireland has 32 Counties.

Risteard81

prawnsambo wrote: »

That declaration seems to be hedged very carefully. The government that was declared in 1916 doesn't exist any more.

Yes it does.

The 2nd Dáil transferred its Governmental Authority of the Republic to another body to hold in trust for the people until such time as the 3rd Dáil could convene.

Hurrache

Risteard81 wrote: »

I always have referred to it as such actually, so that makes you look rather silly.

Calling a Union of European countries a so called European Union is what's pathetically silly.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Cut out the "so-called" nonsense. It's juvenile.

lawred2

SNIP.

wiggle16

Risteard81 wrote: »

I absolutely do recognise the true Government of the Sovereign Irish Republic proclaimed in arms at Easter 1916. I also recognise that the sovereignty and unity of the Republic are inalienable and non-judicable.

prawnsambo wrote: »

That declaration seems to be hedged very carefully. The government that was declared in 1916 doesn't exist any more.

I thought that too.... the words "true Government" stick out a bit there.

Risteard81, so do you live in some sort of anachronistic bubble?

Seeing how you don't think the EU, the UK, or Republic of Ireland (Free State, maybe?) actually exist?

You said when you voted for Brexit you voted for a hard Brexit. At the time of the referendum that concept did not exist because it was not considered a possibility and so it was not discussed.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Risteard81 wrote: »

I always have referred to it as such actually, so that makes you look rather silly.

It's called asking a question. Your failure to recognize a question mark makes you look silly. One of many ways you look silly.

branie2

Only a few minutes to go to the vote

prawnsambo

Risteard81 wrote: »

Their product is already in Ireland.

Ireland has 32 Counties.

Unfortunately the rules in your parallel universe didn't follow you through the wormhole to ours. So as it stands, the six counties of Antrim, Armagh, Derry, Fermanagh, Tyrone and Down exist in a different jurisdiction from the other 26. Hence all the talk about 'borders'. So if you want to take part in this discussion, you'll probably have to get your head around that.

So with that being said, is there something practical that you can add to my post that you quoted?

[Deleted User]

Brexit in crisis and the parliament are arguing over defense budgets. Laughable.

lawred2

branie2 wrote: »

Only a few minutes to go to the vote

Despite obliterating TM last night those Tories will be back voting on party lines.. utterly deranged

Itssoeasy

Michael gove giving a passionate speech to end the proceedings in the HoC. I say passionate because he seemed to be getting into it. It seemed a speech that was more about attacking Jeremy Corbyn than defending Theresa May, as he spent a lot of time talking about Corbyn than May.

Enzokk

Impressive from Gove, had me convinced that it is going great in the UK right now. That is some pitch of his to be the next PM, still mostly lies though.

j8wk2feszrnpao

AdamD wrote: »

Brexit in crisis and the parliament are arguing over defense budgets. Laughable.

How else can they decide their strategy of having two new aircraft carriers (that they don't need, may not be able to afford to operate, and only commissioned because of American influence).

Capt'n Midnight

Bit cynical wrote: »

Ireland is also in favour of extending A50.

No.

We've said we wouldn't block an extension which is a very different thing. And also it would be dependent on the UK deciding on solutions it can support.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0116/1023521-brexit-ireland-reaction/