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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Capt'n Midnight

Division - Clear the lobby !

Water John

Might tell you how many Hard Brexiteers there really are.

RoryMac

I'm liking the speaker, he should be on tv more

Thargor

Here we go.

An Ciarraioch

Unsurprisingly, the noes have it on the Baron vote - 600 to 24.

crusier

This is great entertainment!

Imreoir2

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

24 vs 600

Was that the unilateral end to the backstop amendment?

CZ 453

I thought that amendment would have far greater support from pro union folk. Why didn't it have more?

An Ciarraioch

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Was that the unilateral end to the backstop amendment?

Yes.

sjb25

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Division - Clear the lobby !

Need to use that next time an argument erupts in the pub over football

devnull

I don't understand the UK's whole fascination with unilateral amendments to agreements.

The whole idea of not being unilateral change mechanisms in such amendments are so one side cannot put the fast one over the other and basically one day decide it doesn't want to abide by the things it agreed to. This doesn't protect just one side, it protects both sides from pulling fast ones on the other side.

When there is a unilateral exit mechanism it basically means that the agreement isn't worth a thing because it means any party can turn around and rip it up at any point.

The irony is if the EU wanted to unilaterally change something the UK would cry blue murder to that. The UK just isn't used to being an equal signatory to an agreement, it always believes it should have the upper hand.

Imreoir2

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Yes.

Would I be right in saying that this can be taken as showing that parliament is not bothered about not having a unilateral mechanism to leave the backstop?

Hurrache

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that this can be taken as showing that parliament is not bothered about not having a unilateral mechanism to leave the backstop?

If the amendment passed, despite it nullifying the WA, it would mean that May and the conservatives can say that the meaningful vote wasn't on her deal, and try to go for a second vote on the contents of her deal. Nobody wants that so I suspect this played a large part.

Adamcp898

Chances of Corbyn's possible no confidence call tonight resulting in a bolstering of the Tories, and then subsequent backing of May's Plan A mkII when it's put to them Friday?

Capt'n Midnight

While we are waiting ... a summary
https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/01/15/the-meaningful-vote-welcome-to-political-bandersnatch/

Labour could try and force a general election, presumably so Jeremy Corbyn can stand on a platform of not having a position on Brexit.

...
Brexit is amazing in its ability to consume everything but be completely detached from reality. The run up to today’s vote has made that even clearer. The meaningful vote is the culmination of two years’ worth of time wasting, terrible political decisions and hubris.

Capt'n Midnight

Ayes 202 Noes 432

WoollyRedHat

The only way an agreement put before parliament with the arithmetic as it currently sits is accepted, is a revised deal with a customs union for the whole of the UK entered into.

Hurrache

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Chances of Corbyn's possible no confidence call tonight resulting in a bolstering of the Tories, and then subsequent backing of May's Plan A mkII when it's put to them Friday?

The DUP have already said they'd back her on a no confidence vote.

ancapailldorcha

She's lost.

Atlantic Dawn

Lol, carnage.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/1085259214644264966

There is going to be a lot of disappointed people in this crowd. Hopefully there is no trouble outside after the vote.

Hurrache

So WTF now.

Hammer Archer

230 votes in it.
The HOC is such a zoo.

Evd-Burner

That is a very large majority!

It is going to be a very interesting few days, I really didn't think that it would be that bad!

Captain Obvious

Big defeat there.

Hurrache

She's calling a no confidence herself?!?

RoryMac

Putting it up to Corbyn now

Water John

I'd say worse even than worst predictions. TM invites Motion of Confidence.

Harry Palmr

Yeah cos remainers are famous for their violence.

Infini

WA defeated by 230 votes.