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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Spanish Eyes

BonnieSituation wrote: »

A Belgian MEP statingthst the GFA IS PARAMOUNT in all if this. Who knew.

Well we had Sophie d'in t Veld from Netherlands last night on C4 making mince meat out of the British Government, and now Belgium. Two countries who will absolutely be very much affected by a hard Brexit.

Best for Leo and Coveney to stay quietish, as they are doing, and let the British hoist themselves by their own petard.

Water John

I think his speech is quite good. Has emphasised the need to ensure No Crash Out Brexit.

branie2

Jeremy Corbyn speaking now in the Commons

Nody

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Hence the "ish"

Voting to begin around 7, but as already pointed out, 1-4 amendments first.

Looking at independent they expect the vote to be at 9pm (+/- a few minutes) assuming 6 to 8 of the 14 amendments are voted on, results announced around 9:15 with May directly commenting and Labour to put down the vote of no confidence at 9:30.

devnull

Water John wrote: »

I think his speech is quite good. Has emphasised the need to ensure No Crash Out Brexit.

I think that he is completely deluded, he only cares about getting power and that is it. It is terrible for a Labour leader to essentially be happy to sell his fellow MPs down the river and the public to make sure that he wants to get that power.

He is an enabler and history will judge him as so when they are on the dole and can't get new work and the country falls into a massive recession, since he had the power to do something and he opted for his selfish interests over that.

He makes me ashamed to have ever voted Labour.

Enzokk

Any speech from either May or Corbyn is flawed unless they back remaining as anything else will be worse for the country. How either can stand there claiming they are doing what is best for the country is baffling.

May claims a general election is not what is best for the country but going through with a policy that will make them worse off is. Baffling to say the least.

Water John

What do you think TM has done but critically put the interests of the Tory party and trying to patch its ends together, rather than the country's interest.
She could easily have put forward the soft Brexit and it would have passed easily with the votes of many Lb Mps. But she knew that would frcture her own party with hard Brexiteers voting against it and possibly leaving the Tory party. We know the choice she made.
Let Corbyn get his vote of confidence out of the way.

Stacksofwacks

Best thing would be to ask for a 12 month extension on leaving, have a final binding referendum on all the 3 options, deal no deal or remain.or else bring in Donald Trump to sort it out, art of deal and all that

intellectual dosser

Did Dodds just demand that peace in Northern Ireland have no bearing on the debate or decisions being made throughout Brexit?

Water John

No Deal has to be ruled out by MPs on both sides. It is criminally irresponsible.

tuxy

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Did Dodds just demand that peace in Northern Ireland have no bearing on the debate or decisions being made throughout Brexit?

I think his point was that the issue should not be used disingenuously by MPs to backup their position.

intellectual dosser

tuxy wrote: »

I think his point was that the issue should not be used disingenuously by MPs to backup their position.

Disingenuous or not its a very real part of the debate.

spacecoyote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKmE-URthsA

Full O'Brien - Rees-Mogg interview here. I think the previous link was a 6 minute cut from it

Capt'n Midnight

lawred2 wrote: »

uuurgggh

July means 6 more months of this tiresome nonsense

Oh you poor deluded fool.

Unless the UK calls off Brexit there'll be years of trade deals with the EU and the border/backstop/customs and immigration and all the other stuff.

Christy42

Water John wrote: »

No Deal has to be ruled out by MPs on both sides. It is criminally irresponsible.

Well yeah. They will use this vote to claim that they tried to stop it.

Meaningless muck. Entire Parliament sat on the fence at the same time.

FrancieBrady

tuxy wrote: »

I think his point was that the issue should not be used disingenuously by MPs to backup their position.

They have no problem playing the only victims when it suits them. I wouldn't mind him, the DUP's days in the sun are coming to an end.

gooch2k9

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They have no problem playing the only victims when it suits them. I wouldn't mind him, the DUP's days in the sun are coming to an end.

Over there aye, we'll still have to suffer here. He knows rightly the peace is a valid consideration.

EDIT: Meaningful vote result expected in around half an hour after Lab and SNP drop amendments.

[Deleted User]

What was the point of the amendments if they were going to be withdrawn?

Enzokk

Three of the amendments have been pulled and they are voting on only one amendment now, amendment F.

That seems to be this one, I think:

Conservative MP John Baron's amendment

Gives the UK the right to terminate the Northern Ireland backstop without the agreement of the EU
Amendment backed by cross-party group of Brexiteers, including 12 Conservatives, one independent and one DUP MP.

Water John

Adam Bolton is right. TM was elected with one job, to get the UK through Brexit whilst keeping Parliament united. Totally failed, because she did not reach across the broad middleground in the HoC.
Withdrawal of amendments is to her defeat being the only talking point.

tuxy

Enzokk wrote: »

Three of the amendments have been pulled and they are voting on only one amendment now, amendment F.

That seems to be this one, I think:

Conservative MP John Baron's amendment

Gives the UK the right to terminate the Northern Ireland backstop without the agreement of the EU
Amendment backed by cross-party group of Brexiteers, including 12 Conservatives, one independent and one DUP MP.

Are you saying it could be amended then voted through parliament only for the EU to not recognise it?

Stetsonfrank

I'm lost. I don't understand what's happening in hoc at the moment, will they be voting on WA or not?

Blowfish

tuxy wrote: »

Are you saying it could be amended then voted through parliament only for the EU to not recognise it?

Yes. It's a complete farce.

Capt'n Midnight

Stetsonfrank wrote: »

I'm lost. I don't understand what's happening in hoc at the moment, will they be voting on WA or not?

Some of the amendments would break the WA. Which would make the final vote moot.

An Ciarraioch

Stetsonfrank wrote: »

I'm lost. I don't understand what's happening in hoc at the moment, will they be voting on WA or not?

Yes - result of Baron amendment vote will be known in a few minutes, they then proceed straight to the WA vote, which will give a result within 15 minutes of entering the lobbies.

devnull

Enzokk wrote: »

Three of the amendments have been pulled and they are voting on only one amendment now, amendment F.

That seems to be this one, I think:

Conservative MP John Baron's amendment

Gives the UK the right to terminate the Northern Ireland backstop without the agreement of the EU
Amendment backed by cross-party group of Brexiteers, including 12 Conservatives, one independent and one DUP MP.

That's laughable that they seem to think that you can change a withdrawal agreement without the permission of the other party and still call it an agreement. Do they not know what the word agreement means?

Water John

Simple, amendments are voted on first. Anytime an amendment is carried it overrules the main vote which then doesn't happen.
Yes, that amendment is delusional. Typical Hard Brexiteer line.

Hurrache

That was hammered!

Capt'n Midnight

24 vs 600

Imreoir2

devnull wrote: »

That's laughable that they seem to think that you can change a withdrawal agreement without the permission of the other party and still call it an agreement. Do they not know what the word agreement means?

If only our government had thought to break out the tipex before the Lisbon treaty referendum we could have saved ourselves a bit of bother.