nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

demfad

Tell me how wrote: »

Questions for Nigel Farage (if you're reading Ivan. )

How come Brexit has not been as easy to deliver as you said it would be?
Were you aware the Leave campaign was overspending during the referendum campaign?
Do you still think there should be a second referendum (as he said previously on Andrew Marr show)?
What do you think should happen if the deal is rejected this evening?

Is it true that you have been interviewed twice by Robert Mueller and are a subject (probable target) of his investigation?

Did you transfer data to/from Julian Assange via thumb drive as reported in US congressional testimony?

Did you illegally organise the use of Cambridge Analytica in Brexit?

Were you aware and part of the conspiracy between Cambridge Analytica and the Internet Research Agency (St Petersburg) to coordinate social media campaigns in Brexit and the 2016 US elections?

Why were you working on Calexit (until the CEO absconded to Russia) which was another Russian operation to try and secede California from the USA?

Were you involved in organising the transfer of up to £8m of laundered funding from Russia via AAron Banks to two Leave campaigns?

Is your European Parliamentary group the EFDD a front for Russian undermining of the EU?

Was the EFDD funded by laundered money from the EU Passports for Oligarchs scheme in Malta?

Did you travel to Lithuania to organise the circulation of propaganda against an anti-Putin Lithuanian President, which was translated by Russia and delivered to every MEPs pigeon hold by your closest staffer Kevin Ellul Bonici and three other Russian agents?

Why was Ellul Bonici printing from the Russian embassy in Brussels (and why did Comms director Hermann Kelly of Irexit allow this?)
Why does Ellul Bonnici have an RT.com account to upload your Videos on YouTube?

Did you concede defeat 52:48 for remain on referendum night knowing a poll told you the true result so that Crispin Odley and other backers of Brexit could make a fortune (he made £200m +) on the sharp rise and then absolute crash of sterling in the 2 hours after the result?

etc.? etc.?

Are you in fact an asset/agent for the Russian State?

Thomas_IV

joe40 wrote: »

Is there a chance that May might resign this evening if the expected heavy defeat comes to pass, or is this vote just part of the theatrics.
I don't think she will but it will it not be unprecedented territory for a PM to continue after such a defeat. Maybe it has happened it the past I don't know

I think that we'll have to wait for another three days until the Corbynistas in the Commons will stage the no-confidence vote in the UK govt in the Commons when she fails to submit that requested (demanded more like) 'Plan B' for Brexit.

After all these years following this self-inflicted Brexit-Brit-Madness, I am somewhat fed up with this that I have now reached the point where I don't give a fiddlers anymore on what they vote for and how many will vote for the no-deal Brexit cos this was their plan all along anyway. I just still pity the Remainers in the UK cos these Brexiteers have really ruined their future when the deal is voted down this night.

Tell me how

joe40 wrote: »

Is there a chance that May might resign this evening if the expected heavy defeat comes to pass, or is this vote just part of the theatrics.
I don't think she will but it will it not be unprecedented territory for a PM to continue after such a defeat. Maybe it has happened it the past I don't know

Hasn't happened in the past because there will never have been a defeat like it in the past over such a momentus topic.

I think she will stay, she will be accused of 'clinging' to power but I'm willing to giver her credit to suggest that she knows that there is no one else any more capable than her in the picture.

Cameron got abuse for leaving quickly. If she goes, she will get abuse, if she stays, she will get abuse.
I suspect she might force Labours hand to call a motion of No confidence, just to defeat them and put them back in their box in terms of a GE.

joe40

Is there a chance that May might resign this evening if the expected heavy defeat comes to pass, or is this vote just part of the theatrics.
I don't think she will but it will it not be unprecedented territory for a PM to continue after such a defeat. Maybe it has happened it the past I don't know

Hurrache

Who'd have thought The Sun would be running with factual inaccuracies. Ah heck, call it for what they are, lies.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1085115718532808704

https://twitter.com/NvOndarza/status/1085107068439277569

ancapailldorcha

Low quality posts deleted.

Akrasia

Tell me how wrote: »

The justification of a second referendum is just too difficult, it is too easy for Brexiteers to say that May was always a remainer, she negotiated an EU friendly deal and now wants to sideswipe the democratic vote to leave.

If they leave, change government, have issues and then want to come back, at least democracy would be seen to have been upheld.

But that can't happen overnight and the potential trouble in the years after the leave for them, us, and the eU project will influence if they do ever want to return.

Trying to please the hard brexiteers is a mugs game. If they leave, and have issues, those exact same people will still be crowing about how the EU are sabotaging an independent Britain. They're going to play the victim card even as you give them everything they ever asked for.

The brexiteers have been lying the whole way through the process and they've been ducking any responsibility to come up with any meaningful plan for the last 3 years. The brexiteers could have challenged for the tory leadership but they didn't. May didn't even have to be elected, she won by default. The brexiteers had a chance to get May out in her vote of no confidence, they failed then too, there were hardcore brexiteers appointed to lead the EU negotiations and they failed at getting any concessions and then resigned because they're more comfortable hurling from the ditch than actually implementing any plan.

Trying to pander to these people is pointless, they will never be happy, and it is also extremely damaging because their ideas are intellectually bankrupt and their proposals are a one way trip to destitution and the ultimate breakup of the UK

Thomas_IV

The meaninful vote on the meaningful day, it's history in the making today as the f*** Brexit Brits (including Comrade Corbyn) will just jump off the cliff by voting down the deal which in its result will make it more likely that the UK is exiting the EU without a deal than as (like some presume) to remain in the EU. This will open the path towards an IndyRef2 in Scotland and, thanks to the stupid DUP, to a UI.

Whether some in the Republic like it or not, one day it'll come to that cos the Scots neither want nor can afford to take the stupid (DUP) Norn-Ireland Unionists in (this was never a matter to be even considered by Scotland anyway, but I presume that some Ulster Scots Unionists might have some similar wet dreams like the many Brexiters anticipate the 'promised land' arising on the horizon).

This will only be a matter of time and by that I mean a couple of years.

Hurrache

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Nothing except an unconditional surrender from the EU will be acceptable to these people.

Sammy Wilson yesterday said

We fought a terrorist campaign to stay part of the United Kingdom and we are not going to allow bureaucrats in Brussels to separate us from the rest of the United Kingdom

It can be taken in two ways, first is that he's referring to their paramilitary arm, or that they fought the IRA.

Either way, they're archaic.

CelticRambler

Hurrache wrote: »

Same as myself. I fell down in a couple of the photograph questions, I hope I'm never asked to pick a criminal from a police line up. I knew who did/said it, couldn't pick then out if standing in front of me.

Ditto. 11/15, fell down on all but one of the facial recognition tests!

The price one pays for not having a TV, I suppose. Mind you, I probably recognise more of those British characters than their French counterparts, who have more influence on my daily life. But as I can't vote for them either, it probably doesn't matter either way. Looking forward to casting my EU vote in May, though! :cool:

Tell me how

Christy42 wrote: »

Yeah the headline was a flat out lie by Reuters. Pity as I held them in high regard.

That has been one area in which virtually no media outlet or journalist or presenter has managed to avoid. Either outwardly displaying a leaning towards a particular course of action or being accused of doing so.

BBC, Sky, Reuters, C4, ITV, and all the individual political heavyweights, Bulton, Marr, Neil, Keunnesberg, Snow, Adler etc.

We all think Tony Connelly is one of the best out there but I suspect he too is seen as being biased by some.

[Deleted User]

CelticRambler wrote: »

Yeah. It's a real shame the RoI, France, Spain, Belgium & NL have to work together, with nothing to offer those bigger faster growing countries in future trade deals, other than access to a single market of 500.000.000 people ... :rolleyes:

Nothing except an unconditional surrender from the EU will be acceptable to these people.

Seth Brundle

A couple of quotes from Arlene published on the RTE site today...

Mrs Foster told the audience she had déjà vu having come to London to argue against the Withdrawal Agreement before the Meaningful Vote was pulled in December.

"We said to the Prime Minister she had to get rid of the backstop and get a Withdrawal Agreement that can be lived with".

"I don't think she even asked to get rid of the backstop."

"Tonight will be historic but for the wrong reasons," DUP leader Arlene Foster said in a post on Twitter ahead of the vote in parliament on the deal.

"We will oppose the toxic backstop & vote against the WA," she said, referring to the Withdrawal Agreement.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1085146573082972160

CelticRambler

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

- We have all the upsides of future trade deals with bigger faster growing countries.

On th EU side: ROI will suffer, France, Spain, Belgium and NL will suffer.

Yeah. It's a real shame the RoI, France, Spain, Belgium & NL have to work together, with nothing to offer those bigger faster growing countries in future trade deals, other than access to a single market of 500.000.000 people ... :rolleyes:

Donald Trump

GM228 wrote: »

Hum, I though the EU insisted their wouldn't be.

https://twitter.com/ReutersUK/status/1085121753729388544?s=19

I am sure there will be talks.

Doesn't necessarily mean they'll be about the WA

Might be about how much the UK will have to pay per week to extend A50 to allow them to get their house in order. And be demanding payment up front of that 39bn

If I was in the EU, I'd be demanding a fairly steep price to extend it

Christy42

robinph wrote: »

Further talks would consist of...

May: We had a vote and would like a different deal.
EU: That's interesting but no. Now go away and try again.

Yeah the headline was a flat out lie by Reuters. Pity as I held them in high regard.

Adamcp898

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Also on RTE News Now.

Dominic Raab on earlier, all speakers very confident in leaving the EU.

Edit: I admire their confidence. Trade with the rest of the world is where it is lads, forget the EU.

This will go down well in Arlenes local at election time.

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Was she hiding behind the "bollocks to Brexit" bus?

Must've been delayed. She's appearing next on Bloomberg.

Hurrache

Enzokk wrote: »

"German Foreign Minister Maas says if May's Brexit deal is rejected by parliament today there could be new talks with the EU!"

I would have thought Deal or No Deal there WILL be further talks with the EU. Not necessarily about changing the WA though.

Here's a little quiz to see how knowledgeable we all are on Brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/15/quiz-how-well-have-you-been-following-brexit?CMP=twt_gu

[Deleted User]

David Davis: We will go back to them with an offer of a free trade deal, we will be in a strong position. "Canada +++" etc etc etc

"A brighter and better future"

Charles Babbage

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Arlene on Bloomberg TV at 11:45

https://www.bloomberg.com/live/europe

Was she hiding behind the "bollocks to Brexit" bus?

robinph

Further talks would consist of...

May: We had a vote and would like a different deal.
EU: That's interesting but no. Now go away and try again.

[Deleted User]

THis press conference is great stuff. David Davis very confident for three reasons and EU has weakness.

- We have a floating currency.

- Right to make own decisions.

- We have all the upsides of future trade deals with bigger faster growing countries.

On th EU side: ROI will suffer, France, Spain, Belgium and NL will suffer.

Seth Brundle

GM228 wrote: »

Hum, I though the EU insisted their wouldn't be.

https://twitter.com/ReutersUK/status/1085121753729388544?s=19

I note the following response...
https://twitter.com/DubLoony/status/1085136528836313090

GM228

Tell me how wrote: »

Would be better if there was footage or audio of sad Minister actually saying there would be further negotiations.

I'll wait to see this confirmed.

Seems to be a misleading Tweet and headline from Reuters:-

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-germany-maas/germany-says-eu-ready-to-talk-if-uk-rejects-brexit-deal-idUKKCN1P9132

Germany says EU ready to talk if UK rejects Brexit deal

STRASBOURG (Reuters) - The European Union could hold new talks with Britain if parliament in London rejects the Brexit agreement on Tuesday, Germany’s foreign minister said, but he ruled out significant changes to the treaty.

Speaking to reporters at the European Parliament, Heiko Maas said: “The agreement stands, as it is. I doubt very much that the agreement can be fundamentally reopened. If there were a better solution, it would already have been put forward.”

Contradictory.

Penn

Tell me how wrote: »

Would be better if there was footage or audio of sad Minister actually saying there would be further negotiations.

I'll wait to see this confirmed.

'Further talks with the EU' could mean anything, including extending the withdrawal date.

Enzokk

GM228 wrote: »

Hum, I though the EU insisted their wouldn't be.

Well if we think that leaving without a deal is the worst outcome and there is a chance that offering May new wording to the deal will help they should try it. As the tweet says,

"German Foreign Minister Maas says if May's Brexit deal is rejected by parliament today there could be new talks with the EU!"

That is no guarantee there would be new talks. If the result will be the same what use would the talks be? Is there a different deal that the EU could have offered, if there is why was it not offered to get it through?

So many questions, we will just have to see what the vote holds tonight and what the response to the result will be.

Tell me how

GM228 wrote: »

Hum, I though the EU insisted their wouldn't be.

Would be better if there was footage or audio of said Minister actually saying there would be further negotiations.

I'll wait to see this confirmed.

[Deleted User]

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Arlene on Bloomberg TV at 11:45

https://www.bloomberg.com/live/europe

Also on RTE News Now.

Dominic Raab on earlier, all speakers very confident in leaving the EU.

Edit: I admire their confidence. Trade with the rest of the world is where it is lads, forget the EU.

This will go down well in Arlenes local at election time.

GM228

Hum, I though the EU insisted their wouldn't be.

https://twitter.com/ReutersUK/status/1085121753729388544?s=19

Awesomeness

The Swine and Murrison amendments will both be rejected by the EU as they limit the backstop. The Murrison amendment states that the backstop would cease in Decemeber 2021. The backstop would not even be enacted till December 2022. So they want to stop it a year before it starts

Expect it to pass so