ELM327 wrote: » Agree, HSE top brass is one of the worst public service black holes of bureaucracy out there - and there are many of them! So, there is a palatable solution for both the nurses and the voting public. Reduce HSE management salaries, perhaps cut the JSA dole (ie dole not based on PRSI contributions) and use this to fund the nurses' pay demands. Everyone wins?
wat24 wrote: » The average salary really are averages due to the high earners who are usually in management. I’m 6 years qualified and on 36,000. Most of the nurses working with me are on around the same. There’s far too many bed managers and nurse managers working admin roles that aren’t hands on frontline care. That’s where the money is going
gctest50 wrote: » The admin don't be coming down battering patients though : A total of 5,866 claims for compensation in respect of personal injury or other damages were made against the health authorities
mikhail wrote: » They're perceived as strike-happy, much like teachers.
Padraig Mor wrote: » Just had a look at the Pay Commission report which includes the actual FACTS. "The average earnings for all HSE Staff Nurses in 2017 was approximately €51,000 with allowances, overtime and other payments accounting for approximately 20% to 25% of these earnings." Note this is only for Staff Nurse grade - not Senior Staff Nurse (average approx €62k) or managerial grades - so the most 'basic' nurses. Note also that overtime (as opposed to premium payments and allowances) makes up only a tiny fraction of the overall figure. If anything, the graph below suggests that the higher grades are underpaid - why bother being a Director of Nursing (used they not be called matrons?) for the sake of the few grand more it pays than being a relatively lowly Senior Staff Nurse? Of course, we'll have posters here again trying to deny reality and telling us that averages aren't average etc......
Goldengirl wrote: Those Facts as you put it are showing the average staff nurse on 40 k as I said in an earlier post. The extra pay is made up of allowances for overtime and Night and weekend shifts, which not every nurse does as many services have been cut to 5 day week hours to save money. Also the average extra would be brought up by nurses' extra qualifications , and certainly yo get the amounts on this graph, one would be working every weekend ON night duty!.
Martina1991 wrote: » I asked this earlier but i dont think it was answered. What are these extra qualifications that nurses earn extra for?
road_high wrote: » I wouldn't put Nursing on the same plane as Teaching- technically, academically there is just no comparison. Someone teaching Leaving Cert Physics or Maths at Higher Level....i know someone that trained as a Nurse in England having failed pass Maths here. To be blunt about it the same academic capacity is not required as they are completely different professions using different skills and education.
Twenty Grand wrote: Here's a list that I believe is current. Basically lots of post grads in various areas of medicine. Some are courses over months, though most nurses go for masters as they get them paid for (so long as they pass, and stay so many years after completion)
Martina1991 wrote: » How much would each course be worth on top of the salary or would it depend on the qualification?
Mooooo wrote: » As I said hire more nurses. If they are doing more hours than the standard week they are getting overtime or allowances for it. There are so many hours in the week, they all have to be covered so more nurses on a standard number of hours makes sense, particularly in a&e etc
Graces7 wrote: » https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/0114/1023210-nurses-industrial-action/ Cancelling surgery etc. Great way for nurses to act :eek:
gctest50 wrote: » Those ones are just vultures Nice SIPTU nurses are not striking : SIPTU, which represents 4,000 nurses, is not taking industrial action, and has pledged to pursue higher pay for members through procedures consistent with the Public Service Stability Agreement and the Public Service Pay Commission.
The difference is that they [private hospitals] operate as individual employers legally and have the right to negotiate individually with the representative organisations on behalf of their employees. Under the Industrial Relations Act 1990, strike action can only be taken in furtherance or contemplation of a trade dispute. Therefore, to take industrial action, a union and its members must have a dispute with the employer, in this case each individual private hospital.
Goldengirl wrote: » Those Facts as you put it are showing the average staff nurse on 40 k as I said in an earlier post. The extra pay is made up of allowances for overtime and Night and weekend shifts, which not every nurse does as many services have been cut to 5 day week hours to save money. Also the average extra would be brought up by nurses' extra qualifications , and certainly yo get the amounts on this graph, one would be working every weekend ON night duty! These are figures to try to justify NOT paying nurses as directed by Pascal O'Donoghue so really should be taken with a grain of salt.
Twenty Grand wrote: » Depends, but sure most employers would pay for professional development as it's beneficial in the long run. Most of the work is done on the weekend and days off. Tough going working three 13 hour shifts and 2 or more days in college ( and that would be a good week) .
Padraig Mor wrote: » It really is amazing the intellectual leaps that people will go to to deny what's written in black and white. Average staff nurse pay is €51k, average senior staff nurse ~€62k - these are the facts as reported by the Pay Commission to which the nursing unions contributed. These sames unions have never once denied this level of pay in the media which tells its own story. If people here believe that nurses are paid less on average, please feel free to provide your own data backed evidence to that effect - anecdotes re pay of individuals are worthless. I mean, if they're paid so 'poorly', surely there's plenty of evidence of this - the union will have published a report to that effect? And to claim that it would require "working every weekend ON night duty" is just simply untrue. Unless I'm very wrong (and I don't believe I am), nurses receive 100% time off for any approved full time post grad courses they attend with full pay (and fees paid), accrual of increments and service as well as holiday entitlements, and increased salary in the form of a qualification allowance when they return. The only 'downsides' are that they don't earn any premium hours payments, and must work in the sector for a time (2 years?) when they finish.
hawkelady wrote: » A nurse put up her wage slip along with all her details regarding years in the sector etc. ffs ! Do you not believe that ? She came home with €1120 for a fortnights work ! Do you believe she was adequately paid?
Tell me how wrote: » With due respect to that nurse, that was a single person putting up their slip. The point made is how the 'average' has been discussed in the public domain by representatives from both sides and has not been disputed. Given the number of nurses on circa 40k, it would imply that many are on much greater than the staff nurse average. Understandably, these payslips are not going to be shown here. (This is not a debate about increasing the basic rate, which personally I would be in favour of, it is looking for an across the board pay rise which I think is not appropriate).
mariaalice wrote: » It just getting in to he said she said at this stage so a bit pointless. I would be all for redundancy in management and HR of the HSE particularly for the ones who whinge about nurses pay and use the employment conditions and pay of nurses as the reason they cant do job, doubly so if they if they are married to someone who is in another public service job such as teaching. I have acutely come across this before both working in the public services one in the HSE one a teacher one half of couple acutely got in to a rant about other workers in the HSE but not themselves, its everybody else in the HSE that is over paid except themselves of course.
Tell me how wrote: » The point made is how the 'average' has been discussed in the public domain by representatives from both sides and has not been disputed. Given the number of nurses on circa 40k, it would imply that many are on much greater than the staff nurse average..
Padraig Mor wrote: » It really is amazing the intellectual leaps that people will go to to deny what's written in black and white. Average staff nurse pay is €51k, average senior staff nurse ~€62k - these are the facts as reported by the Pay Commission to which the nursing unions contributed. These sames unions have never once denied this level of pay in the media which tells its own story. If people here believe that nurses are paid less on average, please feel free to provide your own data backed evidence to that effect - anecdotes re pay of individuals are worthless. I mean, if they're paid so 'poorly', surely there's plenty of evidence of this - the union will have published a report to that effect? And to claim that it would require "working every weekend ON night duty" is just simply untrue.
Padraig Mor wrote: » Unless I'm very wrong (and I don't believe I am), nurses receive 100% time off for any approved full time post grad courses they attend with full pay (and fees paid), accrual of increments and service as well as holiday entitlements, and increased salary in the form of a qualification allowance when they return. The only 'downsides' are that they don't earn any premium hours payments, and must work in the sector for a time (2 years?) when they finish.
hawkelady wrote: » Isn’t Simon Harris married to a nurse ...a bit awkward at the dinner table
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