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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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marno21

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Here's a new article on the 2040 plan for Cork. A price tag of €3.1bn is quoted.

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Corks-new-transport-plan-will-cost-31-billion-to-implement-c86801a9-6f84-47a6-8143-fabbb8361340-ds

Great stuff. Now the biggest hurdle: implementation. I'm guessing less than €1bn of this plan is included in the 2018-2027 National Development Plan (BusConnects, cycling infrastructure, M28, M40 NRR East, Dunkettle)

Game changer is bang on. It really comes down to implementation though.

cgcsb

price tag seems high, so I'm guessing that Cork NRR is included in that.

marno21

cgcsb wrote: »

price tag seems high, so I'm guessing that Cork NRR is included in that.

NRR West & N27 dualling are apparently dealt with in the CMATS as per TII documentation. Perhaps the M28, Dunkettle are also included or the NRR East.

Whether the N71 near the city is included is another story, and perhaps a new outer route connecting a dualled N71, N27 at Ballygarvan and N28 at Shannonpark. Any of the projects above would be costly due to terrain.

Benefit:cost of 2.9 speaks for itself. €3.1bn over 21 years is approx 150m per year, or approx 0.2% of 2018 Government expenditure.

no.8

Augeo wrote:

I'm a person from cork, tourist to X,y,z etc etc too BTW along with hundreds of thousands others too....so don't be thinking you've a superior appreciation on transport logistics to the rest of us.

Augeo wrote:

It's not massively important at all....it's a largely insignificant factor to the vast majority

Couldn't disagree more (as a likewise as an x,y,z tourist/business Traveller). Regardless of the details, to say it is largely an insignificant factor to the majority of airport users/ workers highlights a lot of ignorance, or lack of experience to be frank. I don't think he/she meant that they have a superior appreciation, more so an appreciation of well balanced transport infrastructure (e.g. there will always be a market for private transport but to ignore the cost conscious masses / environmentally conscious folk).

opus

Some bit of good news about the site on Sullivan's Quay although BAM seem pretty good at avoiding penalties.

Hotel site owners in Cork given 12 weeks to deal with rubble

snotboogie

opus wrote: »

Some bit of good news about the site on Sullivan's Quay although BAM seem pretty good at avoiding penalties.

Hotel site owners in Cork given 12 weeks to deal with rubble

Rubble to be used for infill or something on the Events Centre site. Still no word on the planning from BAM...

Cork Boy 53

snotboogie wrote: »

Rubble to be used for infill or something on the Events Centre site. Still no word on the planning from BAM...

And this surprises you?

snotboogie

Another South Mall hotel application:
New plans lodged for 58-bed hotel on South Mall

Decision due on the 11th of March

The O'Riordans Joinery Student accomodation seem to have resubmitted their plans for 419 student beds: O'Riordan's Joinery, Bandon Road and portion of the Church of the Immaculate Conception, Lough Road, Cork

Decision due on the 2nd of May.

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

Another South Mall hotel application:
New plans lodged for 58-bed hotel on South Mall

Decision due on the 11th of March

Very interesting! That could make a really nice boutique hotel!

I very much hope the upper floors will be a HELL of a lot better than the upper floors added on the Maldron though. Yeeesh.

snotboogie

Classic NIMBYism from our Lord Mayor:

Student accommodation plan gives 'two fingers' to locals

marno21

Influx of students. LOL

The influx of students in that area started in 1845.

fash

snotboogie wrote: »

Classic NIMBYism from our Lord Mayor:

Student accommodation plan gives 'two fingers' to locals

Literally doesn't make sense anyway- complaining that sites are being used for student accommodation not houses- except this site already has permission for student accommodation, so the argument is moot. In any case by putting students in student accommodation, you free up houses.

the beer revolu

snotboogie wrote: »

Classic NIMBYism from our Lord Mayor:

Student accommodation plan gives 'two fingers' to locals

It's two fingers to the local property owners who rent substandard 3 bedroom houses to 8 students for astronomical rent!

whisky_galore

the beer revolu wrote: »

It's two fingers to the local property owners who rent substandard 3 bedroom houses to 8 students for astronomical rent!

Wonder what students will pay for this new place?

Student accom is being fired up all over in lieu of normal housing as there's a financial incentive??

fash

whisky_galore wrote: »

Wonder what students will pay for this new place?

Student accom is being fired up all over in lieu of normal housing as there's a financial incentive??

Rents tend to be very high- however quality and location is good and rental is designed around academic year. Benefits for developer is the density / number of beds per sq.m. of site is very high compared to building houses or apartments.

EdgeCase

To be honest that kind of commentary makes Cork seem like a city that doesn't even want its very high profile university. UCC is a massive asset to this city both economically and culturally.

There's a dire need for purpose built student accommodation. It will both help reduce the housing crisis by taking students out of the market and will also improve issues around antisocial behaviour in badly maintained, totally inappropriate housing that should be in use as permanent homes.

snotboogie

EdgeCase wrote: »

To be honest that kind of commentary makes Cork seem like a city that doesn't even want its very high profile university. UCC is a massive asset to this city both economically and culturally.

There's a dire need for purpose built student accommodation. It will both help reduce the housing crisis by taking students out of the market and will also improve issues around antisocial behaviour in badly maintained, totally inappropriate housing that should be in use as permanent homes.

Shocking that he doesn't get called out on this. He'd agree with everything you've said there and then just follow it up with "not in my backyard" even if his backyard is adjacent to UCC

EdgeCase

opus wrote: »

Some bit of good news about the site on Sullivan's Quay although BAM seem pretty good at avoiding penalties.

Hotel site owners in Cork given 12 weeks to deal with rubble

It's a bit worrying that it's gone this far.
What's holding up the project?

Dats me

Student accommodation can have six small(ish) bedrooms and one extra room that's a sitting room and a kitchen in one apartment so you squeeze 6 people into what would probably be two bed otherwise I would say? These places are usually quite expensive, in Dublin they're often €1,000/month. Then during the summer from June-September the beds are rented as "self-catering" for €80/night, they're a handy money-spinner and free up rooms elsewhere as was mentioned above.

whisky_galore

fash wrote: »

Rents tend to be very high- however quality and location is good and rental is designed around academic year. Benefits for developer is the density / number of beds per sq.m. of site is very high compared to building houses or apartments.

Low hanging fruit for the developers and their chums.

marno21

Any word on when the Docklands LAP is to be published? So much waiting on both it and the CMATS

Oh and CMATS is now down for Q1 2019
https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Ditching-private-car-commutes-essential-to-building-a-sustainable-Cork-city-2ea55506-c5b6-4529-ab98-5ad7311ee1b9-ds

Markcheese

marno21 wrote: »

Any word on when the Docklands LAP is to be published? So much waiting on both it and the CMATS

Oh and CMATS is now down for Q1 2019
https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Ditching-private-car-commutes-essential-to-building-a-sustainable-Cork-city-2ea55506-c5b6-4529-ab98-5ad7311ee1b9-ds

If there's a decent public transport plan, should city centre appartments still all need parking places? ... Its a serious extra cost,
(although I realise a plan isn't the same as actually providing public transport..

UpTheSlashers

marno21 wrote: »

Influx of students. LOL

The influx of students in that area started in 1845.

'Students' is a dog-whistle term used by by local politicians and residents for Non-Cork or Non-Irish people.

[Deleted User]

Markcheese wrote: »

If there's a decent public transport plan, should city centre appartments still all need parking places? ... Its a serious extra cost,
(although I realise a plan isn't the same as actually providing public transport..

Yes, or a lot will need. It's different in cities where people are born and live in the centre with family, work, social all tied to the area.

We, however, need to attract people to live in the city. They will have family, friends, even sports which would be outside city and public transport.

snotboogie

Cork bike share scheme gears up to expand

Talks start on payment of €30m Cork event centre funds

namloc1980

snotboogie wrote: »

Cork bike share scheme gears up to expand

Good news but not including CIT or Douglas in the expanded bike scheme is a bit of a mad one.

cgcsb

Good to see. Pitty that the Dublin Bike Scheme, despite even bigger success will not be funded for an expansion. It doesn't even cover all of the CBD, never mind the suburbs.

TheChizler

namloc1980 wrote: »

Good news but not including CIT or Douglas in the expanded bike scheme is a bit of a mad one.

I suppose you'd have to get the County Council involved for Douglas.

mire

I just read that article about the cork bike scheme. To be honest its depressing and it says quite a lot about official attitudes to these kind of issues. All it reveals is that an expansion is being considered.

This quotation "It is likely that the operating costs associated with the expanded scheme will require additional sources of revenue, in order to maintain an attractive pricing structure for users of the bike scheme." Says it all.

In translation, we are not really prepared or all that interested in public transport. They don't understand either the necessity or the value of investing in non car transport modes.

Dats me

mire wrote: »

I just read that article about the cork bike scheme. To be honest its depressing and it says quite a lot about official attitudes to these kind of issues. All it reveals is that an expansion is being considered.

This quotation "It is likely that the operating costs associated with the expanded scheme will require additional sources of revenue, in order to maintain an attractive pricing structure for users of the bike scheme." Says it all.

In translation, we are not really prepared or all that interested in public transport. They don't understand either the necessity or the value of investing in non car transport modes.

It was Hugh Creegan, Deputy Chief Executive of the NTA who was quoted. The NTA's whole remit is public transport, he's just saying it will have to be paid for in fairness. The NTA are the ones drafting the transport strategy for Cork that is said to include continuous bus and cycle lanes as well as a Luas system for Cork. The NTA aren't the problem, it's FG, FF and Shane Ross in particular at the moment - you're right, the politicians don't care