Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Magnatu wrote: »

All I see is tulips with no value. And the only thing that matters is price.

But the bitcoiners on this thread are evangelical. They do believe they have insights about possibilities and innovations that will change the world that the rest of us either can't see or are too stupid to understand.

But I have made an effort and it still makes absolutely no sense to me. And I don't accept that this is just because i am too stupid to understand it.

It is a mirage. An illusion, A delusion. The emperor has no clothes.
The only thing that matters is the price that goes up or down.

No one says you are and the people who believe on crypto don't call people names or look down on people who don't get it. The look down on people who aren't willing to even try and understand or debate in a rational way. It gets infuriating when blocked headed people drop in for a few uninformed comments about ponzis and then high risk it out.

It's been admitted dozens of times in this thread there are issues, big ones with some coins and the market overall, however there are good ones too and have positive futures ahead of them.

We are happy to talk crypto, good and bad points but if people aren't willing to be rational and see all sides then there's no point

I heard this one coin had a really solid looking github repo...
I read this white paper, sounds really promising...
Institutional money is just waiting to invest...
the infrastructure is just being put in place...
etc...

dickface wrote: »

I heard this one coin had a really solid looking github repo...
I read this white paper, sounds really promising...
Institutional money is just waiting to invest...
the infrastructure is just being put in place...
etc...

I heard the American government is in shut down....
The stock market had the worst December in 70 years...
House prices are rising because there's not enough to meet demand,it's another bubble don't buy.

You can spin that shít with anything mate,what is the purpose of your dickface here?

grindle

dickface wrote: »

I heard this one coin had a really solid looking github repo...
I read this white paper, sounds really promising...
Institutional money is just waiting to invest...

Whatever about those, what's wrong with this:

dickface wrote: »

the infrastructure is just being put in place...

?
That's exactly what's happening. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor was the internet, nor was Linux.
What kind of attention span do you have?

sexmag wrote: »

I heard the American government is in shut down....
The stock market had the worst December in 70 years...
House prices are rising because there's not enough to meet demand,it's another bubble don't buy.

You can spin that shít with anything mate,what is the purpose of your dickface here?

The fiat money cartel facade will fall apart any day now, people will be begging for crypto
😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
adoption just around the corner
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

q85dw7osi4lebg

Emojis coming out, Heuston we have a 14 year old.

Gerald Obedient Manicurist wrote: »

Emojis coming out, Heuston we have a 14 year old.

says the MAN posting screenshots of people's post history
🤣😂😁😆😃😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎

q85dw7osi4lebg

dickface wrote: »

says the MAN posting screenshots of people's post history
ðŸ€£ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜ðŸ˜†ðŸ˜႒ðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜ŽðŸ˜Ž

lsjmhar wrote: »

Paper/coin money does have inherent value afforded by central banks.

It's a piece of paper. To suggest it's 'backed' by central banks is nonsense. Ask the people of Venezuela about that. Ask the people of Argentina, of Zimbabwe (how long have you got...they take turns, every year there's a batch).
See this. Venezuelans are selling artwork and purses made out of paper money as a curiosity just across the border.

There is one thing that FIAT is backed with - and that's physical force. I'll concede that. Whether that's physical force that acts in the interests of all of its citizens is another story.

lsjmhar wrote: »

When crashes occur central banks regulate the market by buying debt and allowing the economy to continue.

They buy it with what? They turn on the printing presses and print out more paper. Furthermore, the upside of QE does not benefit citizens equally - it favours those with the deepest of pockets. We have as yet not seen the full hangover from QE - and its a place we have not been before.

lsjmhar wrote: »

Because governments have not endorsed BTC and central banks will not 'buy the losses in crypto, BTC has no value.

A couple of things...
1. I have not heard anyone in the crypto space look for a government agency to buy their losses. Please point me to where this has happened. Taking that a step further, nobody in crypto would want that policy going forward.
2. If they were to do it, I guess central banks would turn on the printing presses then? This is the very important difference. There are 21 million Bitcoin and that's where it stops. That's also one characteristic that gives Bitcoin value.
3. This buying up debt you talked of. They socialised debt! For years, financial institutions made money hand over fist and when it suited them, socialism was ok for a change! We're all saddled with that debt.

lsjmhar wrote: »

Since the 'invention' of money the governing authorities have endorsed the currency (usually by putting the King/Queen's head on the coin.

Indeed they have - it's back to what I referred to above. It's there purely by FORCE. Have you ever stopped to think WHY there should be a monopoly?

lsjmhar wrote: »

The result of this is the wild swings in the market as governments/central banks do not 'regulate ' this process.

I don't agree. Where was the 'regulation' you speak of in Argentina, Iran, Russia, Turkey and Venezuela this year? Those are just off the top of my head - I'm sure there are more examples.
As regards volatility in crypto, crypto is young. The market cap. of crypto is but a drop in the ocean. Whilst we are in price discovery mode, it will remain that way. Whilst the market is as small as it is - it will remain so. The other thing is that Bitcoin has been much more volatile in the past.

lsjmhar wrote: »

This is the fundamental reason why BTC cannot work - there is no central authority to protect the 'crypto economy.'

I don't agree. This speculative phase is exactly that - a phase. There will always be a level of speculation (just like we have the FOREX markets) but over time, this level of speculation will dissipate.

lsjmhar wrote: »

This is also the fundamental flaw in decentralization. When the market goes belly no single entity/group can stabilise it.

You mean tinker with it. See above re. QE. And you're also missing something. You know what the maximum no. of bitcoin there can be is. You never know with fiat. You never know what they're going to print and what interest rates they're going to apply.

lsjmhar wrote: »

This is the core process of how economics works - trust in a system that democratises the process. While there are flaws in this system, it is more transparent for the participants.

Transparent? It's not transparent at all! Take the Federal Reserve in the U.S. It's a privately owned entity. Who are these strangers that make decisions that affect so many?

lsjmhar wrote: »

Not unless governments take over.

They can try to suppress by force A LA China - but they're not taking over anything. Decentralised systems remain decentralised.

lsjmhar wrote: »

U cannot trust any of the scammers in this made up ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff Coin ($BMC). Its a winner!

There's a certain irony there. The whole idea behind cryptocurrency is an assumption of a LACK of trust. The same with blockchain solutions. Now, there are badly and ill conceived projects - no doubt. But with that statement you're hacking down the lot. Therefore, tell me what scammers do you refer to with regard to Bitcoin and Ethereum?

lsjmhar wrote: »

Bernie Madoff Coin ($BMC). Its a winner!

I hope on reflection you see the irony! Bernie Madoff is from that conventional world. Where was your regulation then? Remember, Madoff came to light the same time as Bitcoin was conceived.

Magnatu wrote: »

All I see is tulips with no value. And the only thing that matters is price.

That's fine. Perhaps you will be right. When will it hit zero then? If you have full confidence in this point of view, why won't you short the market and empty my crypto filled pockets?

Magnatu wrote: »

But the Bitcoiners on this thread are evangelical.

There are plenty of places where you will find evangelicals re. crypto. I would say that this isn't one of those places. Ask a few of the most active posters on this thread to link to criticisms or shortcomings of cryptocurrency that they have identified. Then ask the naysayers who have posted here to link to positive aspects of crypto that they have acknowledged. There'll be next to nothing listed in that second group.

Magnatu wrote: »

But I have made an effort and it still makes absolutely no sense to me. And I don't accept that this is just because i am too stupid to understand it.

I'm not going to insult you and suggest you're stupid. A person can lack an understanding of something without being stupid. However, you have already acknowledged that you don't understand - see your last post and my response to it.

If there are aspects of it that don't make sense to you and you want to understand them, why not go through them here one by one? This is what this thread (and sub-forum) is supposed to be about - not after hours retarded jibes.

Magnatu wrote: »

It is a mirage. An illusion, A delusion. The emperor has no clothes.The only thing that matters is the price that goes up or down.

There are people quietly working away on this technology that have no time for the speculative end of things. As regards speculation/greed, sure it's excessive - because greed is part of the human condition.
Like I said before, if you firmly believe that it's no more than that and that it is a mirage/illusion/delusion, why not put your money where your mouth is and short it today?

Magnatu wrote: »

Maybe it is useful to question truths that are considered to be be self evident. e.g.

Giving money to organised charities is a good thing.
. . . and the stunning innovation that is the blockchain.

Dead right to question everything and dead right to question charities. To your very point, there are several projects open right now where charitable donations are being tracked from point of donation to point of use on a fully immutable distributed blockchain network. You're welcome.

Magnatu wrote: »

Only specially insightful and intelligent people can understand the intricacies of Bitcoin

See my previous post.

Magnatu wrote: »

and the necessity for vast power resources to power transactions through mining

This old chestnut. There are debates within the crypto sector on this and within this little grouping here ...amongst those that are generally positive about crypto. You see NO value in it whatsoever (do correct me if i'm wrong but i dont think you mentioned any positive facet of bitcoin, cryptocurrency or blockchain tech?). So you're not going to have anything good to say about Proof of Work mining, right?

Deleted User wrote: »

Lads, it's all cognitive bias..there isn't much point arguing about it..

I see every reason so long as it remains actual discussion and it doesn't become a case of 'someone left the gate open on a Walking Dead episode' kind of degenerate exchange.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Indeed they have - it's back to what I referred to above. It's there purely by FORCE. Have you ever stopped to think WHY there should be a monopoly?

This legitimately made me laugh out loud in a restaurant. Absolute gold with the WHY.

Deleted User wrote: »

This legitimately made me laugh out loud in a restaurant. Absolute gold with the WHY.

Is there going to be any substance to your post?

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is there going to be any substance to your post?

Around the same as yours.

Deleted User wrote: »

Around the same as yours.

Well, I made an attempt to engage and discuss and this is what i get in return. I've no clue what your point is....or if there even is one.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Well, I made an attempt to engage and discuss and this is what i get in return. I've no clue what your point is....or if there even is one.

I just think you kind of killed your decent points by going too far with others like the one I quoted.

Less is more as they say. I think there's a name for it, when someone trying to make their point stronger inadvertently makes the overall weaker.

I mean really, asking "Why should a country only have one currency?" is ridiculous. The countries that have two, like Cambodia with its dollars, or Macau with its HKD are hardly going to make great supporting examples.

How could a country legitimately operate if it had two of its own currencies operating independently of each together.. What would tax be paid in? Utilities? What would they issue bonds in? Which currency would they guarantee savings in?

You turn a whole post into a ramble with such points.

Deleted User wrote: »

I just think you kind of killed your decent points by going too far with others like the one I quoted.

Not really. Everything stands or falls on its own merits.

Deleted User wrote: »

Less is more as they say. I think there's a name for it, when someone trying to make their point stronger inadvertently makes the overall weaker.

Sorry I disappointed! It's simply a discussion in a small corner of the interweb - i'm not going up for any sort of election...lol

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean really, asking "Why should a country only have one currency?" is ridiculous.

Is it? However, it's no harm to go on to that subject. I'd suggest there's no such thing as a stupid question.
But before we do, the origin of FIAT goes back to times of less sophisticated economies. The point I was making was that originally, this was to do with power and control. That's the WHY....which circles back to my point that I concede that FIAT is backed by one thing.... FORCE. I didn't necessarily say there should be more than one. Although there are aspects of that (not necessarily the macro-economic ones you have in mind) that which interest me.

Deleted User wrote: »

How could a country legitimately operate if it had two of its own currencies operating independently of each together..

We're going to find out aren't we? as decentralised money doesn't recognise borders.

Deleted User wrote: »

What would tax be paid in?

The state of Ohio accepts tax payments in both Bitcoin and USD. From last I heard, this has not presented them with an apocalyptic outcome.

Deleted User wrote: »

You turn a whole post into a ramble with such points.

Everything stands or falls on it's own merits or otherwise. By all means pick holes in any other aspect of the post you don't agree with....but you'll appreciate they're all separate and distinct points.

JohnnyFlash

I think people here need to calm down. Pretty emotive responses yesterday. If we didn’t know everyone around here was so successful with their investments then you’d imagine we were entering the anger phase of the market bust cycle.

https://goo.gl/images/QLyhYy

Tinder Surprise

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I think people here need to calm down. Pretty emotive responses yesterday. If we didn’t know everyone around here was so successful with their investments then you’d imagine we were entering the anger phase of the market bust cycle.

https://goo.gl/images/QLyhYy

Stealthy scummy posts are scummy

Stay classy there fella.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I think people here need to calm down. Pretty emotive responses yesterday. If we didn’t know everyone around here was so successful with their investments then you’d imagine we were entering the anger phase of the market bust cycle.

https://goo.gl/images/QLyhYy

Kiril is a CFA Charterholder and financial professional with 5+ years of experience in financial writing, analysis and product ownership. He has passed all three CFA exams on first attempt and has a bachelor's degree with a specialty in finance. Kiril’s current focus is on cryptocurrencies and ETFs, as he does his own crypto research and is the subject matter expert at ETFdb.com. He also has his personal website, InvestorAcademy.org where he teaches people about the basics of investing. His ultimate goal is to help people with limited knowledge of finance and investments to create investment portfolios easily, and in line with their unique circumstances.

The fella who wrote the article and his description of himself, why people need to know he passed the exams first try is beyond me.

Ah, the exams in finance are generally considered a big deal..the same blurb for half the crypto articles would be 'has a beard and a YouTube channel. Crypto enthusiast..'

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah, the exams in finance are generally considered a big deal..the same blurb for half the crypto articles would be 'has a beard and a YouTube channel. Crypto enthusiast..'

What does someone's appearance have to with crypto? Not a very nice generalization

The Enbalmer

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I think people here need to calm down. Pretty emotive responses yesterday. If we didn’t know everyone around here was so successful with their investments then you’d imagine we were entering the anger phase of the market bust cycle.

https://goo.gl/images/QLyhYy

Stealthy scummy posts are scummy

Stay classy there fella.

QED ðŸ˜‚

JohnnyFlash

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

Stealthy scummy posts are scummy

Stay classy there fella.

What are you on about? This place is getting bizarre. There’s a number of different components of any classic market bust. Anger is one of the later stages of the cycle.

Look, crypto has lost over 90% of its value since the giddy days of late 2017 and early 2018. All those massive valuations based on dodgy teams and copy-paste whitepapers have collapsed. Those roadmaps promising products in 2018 were lies - usage of crypto is dropping. Ethereum still haven’t delivered their POS implementation, mining is unprofitable, McKinsey are saying the finance industry is moving on from the blockchain fad, top 20 coins have ceased active development. It was a con, a swindle, a squeeze, a condfidencw trick. Some people made a chunk of money, but the vast vast majority of people who bought magic bean crypto coins with real money have lost a huge proportion of their investment. That’s not gloating. That’s taking off the crypto sunglasses of delusion, and taking a good long look at the harsh light of reality.

Grumpypants

You should never ever buy something that has crashed that much, sure sign it is dead in the water.

Remember when Netflix said it was introducing streaming and their stock crashed from 300 to 65.

Or when Amazon crashed from 100 to 10. Or in 1997 when Apple crashed to under $5.

Never heard of them ever again.

JohnnyFlash

Grumpypants wrote: »

You should never ever buy something that has crashed that much, sure sign it is dead in the water.

Remember when Netflix said it was introducing streaming and their stock crashed from 300 to 65.

Or when Amazon crashed from 100 to 10. Or in 1997 when Apple crashed to under $5.

Never heard of them ever again.

They produced something people wanted. Huge difference. There’s not a single iota of evidence people want to use crypto - it’s slow, complicated, crowded marketplace, being your own bank sucks in reality. It’s just not a compelling sell.

Tired of this a long time ago. You believe as strongly as a couple of you clearly do - since you won't confirm one single attribute of blockchain tech or decentralised crypto - then short it.

Stop with the excuses. The rest of us have shown a level of conviction by putting our money where our mouth is and investing (knowing that its a volatile investment). You are adamant that its a complete failure, then short it already (and don't come back with excuses about manipulation this and that!). Money talks, bs walks.

smacl

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There’s not a single iota of evidence people want to use crypto - it’s slow, complicated, crowded marketplace, being your own bank sucks in reality. It’s just not a compelling sell.

Definitively asserting that 'there’s not a single iota of evidence people want to use crypto' implies that you've carried out some kind of exhaustive study such that you're aware of everyone's attitudes towards crypto. Seems rather unlikely from where I'm sitting as a quick google finds an ipsos poll based study which states "35% of Europeans think Bitcoin is the future of spending online with a similar number (32%) saying cryptocurrencies are the future of investing" Source. Note this is a survey of attitudes, and makes no assertion whether these attitudes are reasonably founded.

Perhaps you can tell us how you arrived at such a definitive statement in your own post above?

JJJJNR

el diablo wrote: »

Brave call. I'm certain ETH will go below $100 again. Probably in the coming weeks/months.

How 'bout now.

Grumpypants

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They produced something people wanted. Huge difference. There’s not a single iota of evidence people want to use crypto - it’s slow, complicated, crowded marketplace, being your own bank sucks in reality. It’s just not a compelling sell.

Circle CEO said there was $24 BILLION of institutional money invested in 2018, in the middle of the demise of crypto. Sounds like someone is still interested.