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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Autochange

Bear markets
Fud
Regulation
Wall Street manipulation
The supposed tether ticking time bomb

What are your thoughts? Have you cashed out? Have you been buying the dips?

MOD NOTE:
Its good to see healthy debate and discussion taking place and I am sure every supporter of cryptocurrency and blockchain can agree that the contrarian viewpoint is worthwhile reading, if only to act as an anchor and help prevent investors from getting carried away in an echo chamber of "everything is wonderful, just keep going"

However, there have been a few reported posts recently which I did not action as I wanted to see the thread level out itself rather than start forcing viewpoints and I have been in two minds about that decision.

I'm not going to single any posters out but I'm going to ask that all posters read the forum charter and I want to point out that it was established years ago in the Television forum, that dropping in on a forum to tell the followers of that forums topic (in that case a particular tv show) that it was all crap and only idiots watched it etc etc was the exact definition of being a dick and attempting to troll. I know this because I was the mod of the forum at the time. Now look at the forum charter again.

There is pretty much one rule on this forum : if you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and I mean discuss, not soapbox or attack, then you have absolutely no business posting here and I have no qualms about removing your ability to do so.

This forum is for people that have in interest in cryptocurrencies, blockchain and their application to financial investments. that can be positive or negative but if you really feel the need to start pulling out memes / hiding insults in imaginary hashtags / attacking personalities or just generally being a dick there are other forums you can post in where I will let the local mods determine if it is within the scope of allowable behaviour. Here, it is not.

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[Deleted User]

Grumpypants wrote: »

If you buy a share in a company it is only worth what someone else will pay you. That is sound investing.

Buy a cryoto coin that is only worth what someone will pay you. Ponzi !!!!

You won't convince anyone here. Some people don't want to see facts. However I do believe that no one on this thread is "investing", for want of a better word, blindly anymore. They know that there is no rhyme nor reason to the wild swings & in fairness many have made money on the wild swings. I think many see Bitcoin dying in the near future but there is still money to be made while it swings so far. It's not for me as I don't gamble but many have made money in the last year as Bitcoin plummets

Grumpypants

The Enbalmer wrote: »

How'd you manage to pay off your mortage for 9 months with less than two grand?

Bought low then sold high.

[Deleted User]

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/01/12/bitcoin-and-crypto-analysts-smoking-fairy-dust-plus-ripple-and-xrp-ethereum-tron-litecoin-iota-vechain-waves-crypto-news-alert/

Magnatu

Grumpypants wrote: »

If you buy a share in a company it is only worth what someone else will pay you. That is sound investing.

Buy a cryoto coin that is only worth what someone will pay you. Ponzi !!!!

If you have something that is inherently worthless and people buy it purely speculatively because they think others will pay for it more for it this is a Ponzi scheme. The thing could be tulips or fairy dust or Bitcoin.

Watched a documentary on YouTube and was amazed at the amount of bull**** that was talked.
I did now have a clue what most of the "experts" were on about. It sounded really complicated and important. But the emperor has no closed. It is all just meaningless pointless waffle.
Bitcoin has no inherent value. It's all about the speculation.

Dohnjoe

Magnatu wrote: »

If you have something that is inherently worthless and people buy it purely speculatively because they think others will pay for it more for it this is a Ponzi scheme. The thing could be tulips or fairy dust or Bitcoin.

Watched a documentary on YouTube and was amazed at the amount of bull**** that was talked.
I did now have a clue what most of the "experts" were on about. It sounded really complicated and important. But the emperor has no closed. It is all just meaningless pointless waffle.
Bitcoin has no inherent value. It's all about the speculation.

The market gives it value, and has given it (increasing) value for 8 years. It could be called "speculative artificially scarce trading digital token that runs on a blockchain" - people want to trade and speculate on it

Likewise if a lump of useless rock suddenly became incredibly scarce - the market might give it value. Something can have value and still be next to useless.

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/01/12/bitcoin-and-crypto-analysts-smoking-fairy-dust-plus-ripple-and-xrp-ethereum-tron-litecoin-iota-vechain-waves-crypto-news-alert/

The guy doesn't like the technical analysis that's being done? Well, from my limited understanding technical analysis is limited in its abilities to begin with. However, when applied to crypto, it's harder still.
Otherwise, the guy runs his own TA and is long litecoin? Is that the point you were making?

Magnatu wrote: »

If you have something that is inherently worthless and people buy it purely speculatively because they think others will pay for it more for it this is a Ponzi scheme.

Fair enough - so long as you're willing to concede that effectively any speculative investment is a 'ponzi scheme'...be it futures, property, forex or equity stocks.

By the way, a ponzi scheme is a fraud. People have been imprisoned for fraud. Who is the fraudster here? Who organized the ponzi - as there has to be an organiser for it to be a ponzi scheme.

Magnatu wrote: »

Watched a documentary on YouTube and was amazed at the amount of bull**** that was talked.
I did now have a clue what most of the "experts" were on about. It sounded really complicated and important. But the emperor has no closed. It is all just meaningless pointless waffle.

So you concede you didn't understand what they were saying and on that basis, it was meaningless? Is everything you don't understand meaningless?

Magnatu wrote: »

Bitcoin has no inherent value. It's all about the speculation.

The bacteria-infested paper/cotton in your wallet has no inherent value - it's just that - paper/cotton. Otherwise, if you truly believe 110% in what you are saying, you can short bitcoin. You stand to make a fortune. Put up or shut up.

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/01/11/escobar-tether-crypto-bitcoin/amp/

Someone thinks that Tether is untrustworthy? I don't think you will find anyone here that disagrees with you. Even if they are doing the basics right - right now - they're still untrustworthy on the basis that there's nothing stopping them from betraying peoples trust. The fundamentals for that stablecoin are simply wrong. Everyone in the industry seems to accept that.

[Deleted User]

Yeah, but the reason I posted that 2nd one was that I've seen an awful lot of crypto heads bringing up what was very obviously dubious technical analysis..about how it was going to turn any minute some about May last year..

And there's actual drug cartels issuing coins..

makeorbrake

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, but the reason I posted that 2nd one was that I've seen an awful lot of crypto heads bringing up what was very obviously dubious technical analysis..about how it was going to turn any minute some about May last year..

Well TA works on probabilities - it's not a prediction tool. Secondly, there are all manner of TA tools and manners of interpretation. I have no problem in you saying you can't put any belief/credence/faith in TA - but what makes one dubious and the other the TA of record?

Deleted User wrote: »

And there's actual drug cartels issuing coins..

Woah...hold on there!...lol

Pablito's brother, a 'drug cartel'? Pablo shot himself on a rooftop in Medellín in 1993 before the cops put another couple of slugs in him. There ended the Escobar cartel. His brother is a nobody and he doesn't run a cartel!

ANYONE can launch a coin - it doesn't mean anything. Having said that, he makes a good point. From his website:

“The token came to existence as a tool to raise money for the Impeach Trump Fund cause, where a GoFundMe fundraiser was shut down and censored. Thanks to cryptocurrencies, there are no boundaries to be censored!”

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, but the reason I posted that 2nd one was that I've seen an awful lot of crypto heads bringing up what was very obviously dubious technical analysis..about how it was going to turn any minute some about May last year..

No one really has a clue which way it's going to go in medium or long term.

For those that are certain it's going to plunge down (and it certainly could) why aren't they putting money on it?

If I were to make a large bet, I'd bet that a basket of the e.g. top 5 cryptos will be worth more in 4 years (Jan 2023). Based on past patterns, the speculative nature of people, crypto "development", and herd psychology - that's the direction I'd bet

Of course I could easily be completely wrong, but I get the feeling not many, even the cynics, would bet against that

Thargor

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

:rolleyes: *rubs chin

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Nah man. Not me.

You complete and utter spoofer, go back to boasting about how many apartments you own over in Accommodation and Property

Then log into your other account, the one who runs a webdev company and sold a truck load of graphics cards for massive profits to the miners at the height of the boom but had strangely never posted in any of the PC building or development subforums on this site.

JohnnyFlash

Thargor wrote: »

You complete and utter spoofer, go back to boasting about how many apartments you own over in Accommodation and Property

Then log into your other account, the one who runs a webdev company and sold a truck load of graphics cards for massive profits to the miners at the height of the boom but had strangely never posted in any of the PC building or development subforums on this site.

Less of the personals please, poster. Haven’t a plucking clue what you are on about. You’re getting paranoid.

Btw, well done to all the canny investors around here who managed to make money from crypto. It’s estimated that over 90% of people who invested in the area have lost money, so good to see the shrewd Irishman has appeared to buck that trend.

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No one really has a clue which way it's going to go in medium or long term.

For those that are certain it's going to plunge down (and it certainly could) why aren't they putting money on it?

If I were to make a large bet, I'd bet that a basket of the e.g. top 5 cryptos will be worth more in 4 years (Jan 2023). Based on past patterns, the speculative nature of people, crypto "development", and herd psychology - that's the direction I'd bet

Of course I could easily be completely wrong, but I get the feeling not many, even the cynics, would bet against that

Would you take the bet in Euros or crypto, and why?

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you take the bet in Euros or crypto, and why?

Euros naturally, somehow I don't think crypto would be accepted by anyone betting against. As to why, because I feel that crypto (market cap) will be worth more in 4 years than it is right now for a variety of reasons, e.g. herd psychology, people's tendencies to FOMO in at the first sniff of a potential bull, industry and finance heavily investing in blockchain, DLT and associated tech (not always directly into crypto itself of course, but it keeps drawing attention back to the coins/tokens/projects/partnerships/etc), plus many other reasons

There's also plenty that could eviscerate the (fragile) value of cryptos - large exchange hacks, a cornerstone like Coinbase going insolvent, big exploits, global regulation. But a lot of that stuff has already happened, and each time crypto seems to bounce back. Obviously during a bear the future seems bleak, but the value of most of these things is based largely on psychology, and when interest does spike, increase in value follows, typically surges, which creates it's own momentum. Again, past performance is no indicator of the future, but people never learn, and psychology doesn't change much. If there is another large bull run in 2 or 3 years, it's not unfathomable that millions will FOMO in again. Likewise, gambling is a fool's game, but it's an enduring industry due to human psychology.

The Enbalmer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Thargor wrote: »

You complete and utter spoofer, go back to boasting about how many apartments you own over in Accommodation and Property

Then log into your other account, the one who runs a webdev company and sold a truck load of graphics cards for massive profits to the miners at the height of the boom but had strangely never posted in any of the PC building or development subforums on this site.

Less of the personals please, poster. Haven’t a plucking clue what you are on about. You’re getting paranoid.

There's a certain mania about these crypto-heads.

It's almost as if they're trying to convince themselves of their own good judgement.

grindle

The Enbalmer wrote: »

It's almost as if they're trying to convince themselves of their own good judgement.

It's frustration towards repetitive baseless arguments.

Most crypto-positive heads here would say "I think it is valuable and hope it will continue to become more valuable as it scales - I might be wrong, may have put too many eggs in one basket & come out the wrong side of the gamble."

Whereas you would say "It definitely is NOT valuable and has no reason to be valuable and you're all definitely wrong and I am absolutely correct! Something something ponzi!"

Which one of those sides is tiringly pigheaded and obnoxious?

You get to choose a colour if you get the right answer...

sexmag

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Euros naturally, somehow I don't think crypto would be accepted by anyone betting against. As to why, because I feel that crypto (market cap) will be worth more in 4 years than it is right now for a variety of reasons, e.g. herd psychology, people's tendencies to FOMO in at the first sniff of a potential bull, industry and finance heavily investing in blockchain, DLT and associated tech (not always directly into crypto itself of course, but it keeps drawing attention back to the coins/tokens/projects/partnerships/etc), plus many other reasons

There's also plenty that could eviscerate the (fragile) value of cryptos - large exchange hacks, a cornerstone like Coinbase going insolvent, big exploits, global regulation. But a lot of that stuff has already happened, and each time crypto seems to bounce back. Obviously during a bear the future seems bleak, but the value of most of these things is based largely on psychology, and when interest does spike, increase in value follows, typically surges, which creates it's own momentum. Again, past performance is no indicator of the future, but people never learn, and psychology doesn't change much. If there is another large bull run in 2 or 3 years, it's not unfathomable that millions will FOMO in again. Likewise, gambling is a fool's game, but it's an enduring industry due to human psychology.

This is a really good and insightful comment

lsjmhar

Paper/coin money does have inherent value afforded by central banks. When crashes occur central banks regulate the market by buying debt and allowing the economy to continue. Because governments have not endorsed BTC and central banks will not 'buy the losses in crypto, BTC has no value. Since the 'invention' of money the governing authorities have endorsed the currency (usually by putting the King/Queen's head on the coin. I

The result of this is the wild swings in the market as governments/central banks do not 'regulate ' this process. This is the fundamental reason why BTC cannot work - there is no central authority to protect the 'crypto economy.' This is also the fundamental flaw in decentralization. When the market goes belly no single entity/group can stabilise it.

This is the core process of how economics works - trust in a system that democratises the process. While there are flaws in this system, it is more transparent for the participants.

sexmag

lsjmhar wrote: »

Paper/coin money does have inherent value afforded by central banks. When crashes occur central banks regulate the market by buying debt and allowing the economy to continue. Because governments have not endorsed BTC and central banks will not 'buy the losses in crypto, BTC has no value. Since the 'invention' of money the governing authorities have endorsed the currency (usually by putting the King/Queen's head on the coin. I

The result of this is the wild swings in the market as governments/central banks do not 'regulate ' this process. This is the fundamental reason why BTC cannot work - there is no central authority to protect the 'crypto economy.' This is also the fundamental flaw in decentralization. When the market goes belly no single entity/group can stabilise it.

I know there's nearly 3k posts on this thread but for the love of christ, if someone is going to chime in their 2/c please read the thread. This point has been acknowledged and discussed and agreed upon already by all sides.

There needs to be some sort of regulation in the crypto market to stop these kind of things happening,it's possible, it can be done and will help make crypto a fundamental currency of our times, we just don't have it yet

lsjmhar

sexmag wrote: »

I know there's nearly 3k posts on this thread but for the love of christ, if someone is going to chime in their 2/c please read the thread. This point has been acknowledged and discussed and agreed upon already by all sides.

There needs to be some sort of regulation in the crypto market to stop these kind of things happening,it's possible, it can be done and will help make crypto a fundamental currency of our times, we just don't have it yet

Not unless governments take over. U cannot trust any of the scammers in this made up ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff Coin ($BMC). Its a winner!

dickface

Crypto people remind me of flat earthers and anti-vaxxers, they feel like they have special knowledge and insight that others don't...

grindle

dickface wrote: »

Crypto people remind me of flat earthers and anti-vaxxers, they feel like they have special knowledge and insight that others don't...

That works both ways, dickface. Except we've bothered reading about it, ye just see boom and bust and journalism that focuses primarily on price.

q85dw7osi4lebg

dickface wrote: »

Crypto people remind me of flat earthers and anti-vaxxers, they feel like they have special knowledge and insight that others don't...

How much bitcoin did you buy ?

You are a man of your word anyway.

dickface

Impressive responsive times guys, faster than most transaction times!!!

Magnatu

dickface wrote: »

Crypto people remind me of flat earthers and anti-vaxxers, they feel like they have special knowledge and insight that others don't...

grindle wrote: »

That works both ways, dickface. Except we've bothered reading about it, ye just see boom and bust and journalism that focuses primarily on price.

All I see is tulips with no value. And the only thing that matters is price.

But the bitcoiners on this thread are evangelical. They do believe they have insights about possibilities and innovations that will change the world that the rest of us either can't see or are too stupid to understand.

But I have made an effort and it still makes absolutely no sense to me. And I don't accept that this is just because i am too stupid to understand it.

It is a mirage. An illusion, A delusion. The emperor has no clothes.
The only thing that matters is the price that goes up or down.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Magnatu wrote: »

All I see is tulips with no value. And the only thing that matters is price.

But the bitcoiners on this thread are evangelical. They do believe they have insights about possibilities and innovations that will change the world that the rest of us either can't see or are too stupid to understand.

But I have made an effort and it still makes absolutely no sense to me. And I don't accept that this is just because i am too stupid to understand it.

It is a mirage. An illusion, A delusion. The emperor has no clothes.
The only thing that matters is the price that goes up or down.

With a personality like this it's not hard to see why you don't understand the basic principles of the crypto space.

grindle

Magnatu wrote: »

But the bitcoiners on this thread are evangelical. They do believe they have insights about possibilities and innovations that will change the world that the rest of us either can't see or are too stupid to understand.

Ignore Bitcoin. Are all cryptos worthless ponzis and if so why?

Magnatu

Gerald Obedient Manicurist wrote: »

With a personality like this it's not hard to see why you don't understand the basic principles of the crypto space.

Not that unrelated. Maybe it is useful to question truths that are considered to be be self evident. e.g.

Giving money to organised charities is a good thing.

or

Only specially insightful and intelligent people can understand the intricacies of Bitcoin and the necessity for vast power resources to power transactions through mining and the stunning innovation that is the blockchain.

or

Witches float.

grindle

Magnatu wrote: »

Not that unrelated. Maybe it is useful to question truths that are considered to be be self evident. e.g.
...
Only specially insightful and intelligent people can understand the intricacies of Bitcoin and the necessity for vast power resources to power transactions through mining and the stunning innovation that is the blockchain.

That is...the opposite of what's commonly thought. Play devil's advocate with yourself.

Grumpypants

Magnatu wrote: »

I don't accept that this is just because i am too stupid to understand it.
.

That's the great thing about facts, they are true whether you believe it or not.

[Deleted User]

Lads, it's all cognitive bias..there isn't much point arguing about it..