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Child Item

Unaccompanied children on Bus Eireann

josip

I've been trying to work out BE's unaccompanied minor policy.
http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=376

Unaccompanied Children
Children under 12 years of age will NOT be carried, except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over, on Bus Eireann or Expressway services where the following conditions apply:
If the journey intended is greater than 30km

AND
If the journey intended is after 7pm.

From my reading of it, as long as the journey finishes before 7pm, a child of any age can go wherever they want by themselves?
Common sense tells me this can't be the case, but I can't find anything else in their Ts&Cs.

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looksee

Well, as long as it finishes before 7pm and is less than 30km. Yes, otherwise it does appear that you could put a 1 year old on a bus.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1546427800-Child-Safeguarding-Statement-November-2018--.pdf they even appear to promise to take care of them!

TheQuietFella

looksee wrote: »

Well, as long as it finishes before 7pm and is less than 30km. Yes, otherwise it does appear that you could put a 1 year old on a bus.

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1546427800-Child-Safeguarding-Statement-November-2018--.pdf they even appear to promise to take care of them!

That appears to be for children being transported to their school!

Ye need to re-read the first line again where it says 'children under 12 …..'

[Deleted User]

Yeah no that's not gonna happen

If a 7 year old gets on my bus on their own and doesn't have a responsible adult with them, I'll be contacting the gardai and won't be carrying them.

We have staff notices as above but at the same time we can't be responsible for other people / children.

obby1

BE and DB have guards do a background check on drivers, do GA do the same?

looksee

TheQuietFella wrote: »

That appears to be for children being transported to their school!

Ye need to re-read the first line again where it says 'children under 12 …..'

Yup, read it and it still says
Children under 12 years of age will NOT be carried, except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over, on Bus Eireann or Expressway services where the following conditions apply:
If the journey intended is greater than 30km
AND
If the journey intended is after 7pm.

so if it is less than 30km and not after 7pm they will be carried. Someone forgot to put in a minimum age for unaccompanied kids.

XPS_Zero

looksee wrote: »

Yup, read it and it still says
Children under 12 years of age will NOT be carried, except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over, on Bus Eireann or Expressway services where the following conditions apply:
If the journey intended is greater than 30km
AND
If the journey intended is after 7pm.

so if it is less than 30km and not after 7pm they will be carried. Someone forgot to put in a minimum age for unaccompanied kids.

Would not the driver have a lot of discretion here? Legally you can refuse anyone service in "good faith" as long as you are not discriminating on the nine grounds. Fearing for a childs safety would seem to be good faith. As someone said above if a 7 year old got on the bus I'd be nervous.

Even watching those feral kids between the Leapordstown and Ballyogan Wood stops on the Luas green line (or as I call it the little red line) makes me wonder what the hell sometimes, some of them are barely above toddler status.

TheQuietFella

looksee wrote: »

Yup, read it and it still says
Children under 12 years of age will NOT be carried, except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over, on Bus Eireann or Expressway services where the following conditions apply:
If the journey intended is greater than 30km
AND
If the journey intended is after 7pm.

so if it is less than 30km and not after 7pm they will be carried. Someone forgot to put in a minimum age for unaccompanied kids.

Except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over.

josip

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over.

yes but:

...where the following conditions apply:
If the journey intended is greater than 30km
AND
If the journey intended is after 7pm.

If both of those conditions aren't met, then the accompanied by 16 years requirement is moot.
Read it again.

ForestFire

josip wrote: »

yes but:

...where the following conditions apply:
If the journey intended is greater than 30km
AND
If the journey intended is after 7pm.

If both of those conditions aren't met, then the accompanied by 16 years requirement is moot.
Read it again.

If they are accompanied by a 16 year old then they must also meet the next two conditions. There is no "or" between the 16 year old requirement and the two conditions related to the 16 year old requirement.

josip

Perhaps it's more readable and easier to understand if the order of the clauses are swapped?

Children under 12 years of age will NOT be carried on Bus Eireann or Expressway services, where the following conditions apply:

If the journey intended is greater than 30km

AND

If the journey intended is after 7pm.

except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over.

BE's problem is that they can't prohibit the carrying of children to and from primary school.
But the wording they have chosen on that link, doesn't prohibit other scenarios that would be questionable eg. Mammy can put her 8 year old on the 10:00 from Cork and Granny can meet him/her in Busaras at 13:45.

Out of curiosity, I checked if I could buy a child ticket without an adult ticket from their website and I was able to get to Checkout. The Ts&Cs they have on that page are different to what's in the OP, and make a lot more sense.

Unaccompanied Children
Children under 12 years of age will NOT be carried, except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over, on the following categories of Bus Éireann services:

All Expressway services - as detailed in Expressway section of Bus Éireann website Buseireann.ie or in the Expressway section of Bus Éireann’s published Timetable Booklet.

Non-Expressway services where the intended journey of the child passenger exceeds 50 kilometres.

Where doubt exists as to the eligibility of a child for unaccompanied travel, it is the responsibility of the passenger claiming such eligibility to produce evidence of age.

looksee

I honestly don't think anyone is taking this discussion all that seriously as a practical proposition...

josip

looksee wrote: »

I honestly don't think anyone is taking this discussion all that seriously as a practical proposition...

It did originate from a serious idea I had to put our 11 year old on a bus in Dublin and for his mammy to meet him off the bus in Galway.
I was wondering if it was allowed.

ForestFire

The except comes first followed by one main condition

-must be accompanied by 16 year old

And two further conditions that apply when accompanied by the 16 year old

-journey must end by 7
-journey less than 30km

You cannot simy add conditional "or" that is not there or move the word except....

Try reading without the bus service it applies to and see... Then just add this addition info back in, that does not change the meaning of the rules....

Unaccompanied Children
Children under 12 years of age will NOT be carried, except when they are accompanied by a responsible person aged 16 years or over, where the following conditions apply:

If the journey intended is greater than 30km
AND
If the journey intended is after 7pm.

L1011

I think they intended Or not And between those conditions. But intent isn't any use when it's written down

TheQuietFella

josip wrote: »

It did originate from a serious idea I had to put our 11 year old on a bus in Dublin and for his mammy to meet him off the bus in Galway.
I was wondering if it was allowed.

Would you put your wallet on a seat on the bus to Galway?

Corca Baiscinn

josip wrote: »

It did originate from a serious idea I had to put our 11 year old on a bus in Dublin and for his mammy to meet him off the bus in Galway.
I was wondering if it was allowed.

We did that many years ago on expressway services & there was no issue with it at the time. I think there was even a change of bus involved! Back then a driver would 'keep an eye' on an unaccompanied minor but thinking re Child Protection has moved on. I seem to recall that the practice continued for many years until one day a Mammy rang Joe Duffy to complain that her darling hadn't been minded properly in some respect & BE's response was to say "that's it, we're done with babysitting"
It was also entirely possible to send unaccompanied minors on a plane to Auntie Mary in England for their hols & I was dispatched thus myself! Also had 2 indignant teens en route to France complain indignantly that they were incarcerated in a lounge in Heathrow between flights with Teddy stickers around their necks!
Mind you, corollary is that I observed two young fellas on way home from primary school by bus lately who were messing/climbing in a way I considered dangerous. If I had been the driverI think I would be refusing to carry them as if they got hurt he'd end up being sued for negligence by Mammy or Daddy.
At least Josip, if your young fella is 11, he'll soon be above the age limit!

Carawaystick

always worth a listen regarding unaccompanied children
https://www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/2010/0819/646486-radio-documentary-dont-go-far/