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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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cgcsb

price tag seems high, so I'm guessing that Cork NRR is included in that.

marno21

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Here's a new article on the 2040 plan for Cork. A price tag of €3.1bn is quoted.

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Corks-new-transport-plan-will-cost-31-billion-to-implement-c86801a9-6f84-47a6-8143-fabbb8361340-ds

Great stuff. Now the biggest hurdle: implementation. I'm guessing less than €1bn of this plan is included in the 2018-2027 National Development Plan (BusConnects, cycling infrastructure, M28, M40 NRR East, Dunkettle)

Game changer is bang on. It really comes down to implementation though.

Pablo Escobar

Treviso wrote: »

There was a time before Christmas when buses wouldn't show up for ages, then 3 would appear at once, but generally it is quite a good service. Granted, I used to take the 202 quite a bit so maybe its not a fair comparison (202 was a dreadful service)

Here's a new article on the 2040 plan for Cork. A price tag of €3.1bn is quoted.

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Corks-new-transport-plan-will-cost-31-billion-to-implement-c86801a9-6f84-47a6-8143-fabbb8361340-ds

Treviso

snotboogie wrote: »

Really? I frequent the route too and I actually find the 220 better. I would say that 50% of the time the 206 doesn't show up at all, granted im using it after 6pm to get into the city and am only using it once a week so I might not be getting the best picture.

There was a time before Christmas when buses wouldn't show up for ages, then 3 would appear at once, but generally it is quite a good service. Granted, I used to take the 202 quite a bit so maybe its not a fair comparison (202 was a dreadful service)

snotboogie

Treviso wrote: »

Living along the 206 route, it is definitely the most reliable bus service in the city (out of a bad lot). Reason being, it doesnt have to go through the city and northside. Frequency is every 15 mins too

My fear is the service will degrade if they expand the service to the airport. Lack of bus lanes on the N27 will see the bus delayed by more rush hour traffic. Also would the bus have to negotiate the Kinsale roundabout or cut through the Airport road?

Really? I frequent the route too and I actually find the 220 better. I would say that 50% of the time the 206 doesn't show up at all, granted im using it after 6pm to get into the city and am only using it once a week so I might not be getting the best picture.

snotboogie

Markcheese wrote: »

True slight exaggeration... But The last time I wanted to get from the airport to the train station it took nearly 2 hours...(from arriving at the bus stop)
Its 2 and a half to Dublin airport..

2 and a half is the absolute best case scenario, on average its just over 3 hours and its often over 3 and a half hours. A taxi from Kent to Cork airport costs about 15 euro and will take 15 minutes. A return Aircoach ticket costs 28 euro and will take over 6 hours return. You are talking about spending an extra 2 euro to save 5 and a half hours of your time, not including the extra time in the airport.

Treviso

snotboogie wrote: »

206 to the airport would be great. It would link to a lot of populated suburbs.

Living along the 206 route, it is definitely the most reliable bus service in the city (out of a bad lot). Reason being, it doesnt have to go through the city and northside. Frequency is every 15 mins too

My fear is the service will degrade if they expand the service to the airport. Lack of bus lanes on the N27 will see the bus delayed by more rush hour traffic. Also would the bus have to negotiate the Kinsale roundabout or cut through the Airport road?

Markcheese

snotboogie wrote: »

Ah here. It’s between 6 and 7 hours round trip on the bus. You are adding the equivalent of a long haul flight to your travel time by going from Dublin.

True slight exaggeration... But The last time I wanted to get from the airport to the train station it took nearly 2 hours...(from arriving at the bus stop)
Its 2 and a half to Dublin airport..

Curb Your Enthusiasm

EdgeCase wrote: »

There's an issue in general with Cork bus transportation. We should probably be seeing the airport's access to public transport in the context of Cork's current issues with inadequate bus services.

I don't think Cork Airport has many connectivity issues but it absolutely should be considered as part of the transit plan. There's also a lot of office space in the adjacent business park too.

The whole bus system needs a complete overhaul. The 220 24-hour route with improved frequency is a step in the right direction but we need to see improvements across all routes and possibly some routes added also.

The fact Ballygarvan doesn't have a bus going through it is shocking.

Rail: Mallow should allow Leap cards to be used for cheaper fares like Midleton. I know people paying crazy money to commute to and from there each day to the city.

Youghal would be a great addition also, if the Greenway doesn't get the go ahead tomorrow. Imagine having a rail connection to the beach, and it would completely regenerate the area there as a valuable option as a commuter town, for people moving to Cork. Not to mention a tourist attraction in itself.

EdgeCase

There's an issue in general with Cork bus transportation. We should probably be seeing the airport's access to public transport in the context of Cork's current issues with inadequate bus services.

I don't think Cork Airport has many connectivity issues but it absolutely should be considered as part of the transit plan. There's also a lot of office space in the adjacent business park too.

snotboogie

Markcheese wrote: »

True.. I won't use buses to go to Cork airport anymore.. I just go to Dublin.. Its nearly as quick and overall cheaper..

Ah here. It’s between 6 and 7 hours round trip on the bus. You are adding the equivalent of a long haul flight to your travel time by going from Dublin.

snotboogie

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I asked the airport if there were plans to improve bus frequency, especially with the growing traffic, and they fobbed me off telling me to "contact Bus Eireann to pass on my suggestion".

It needs a bus connection (226A) to run at least every 20 mins. Not to mention with the business park next door also. An hourly bus in the early hours of the morning would be ideal also for late night workers.

There's supposedly plans to route the 206 via the Airport after Grange, but I'm not sure when or if we'll see it in the near future. A more direct connection to town and back would be better anyway.

Sometimes there's no buses to meet late arriving flights which is ridiculous.

206 to the airport would be great. It would link to a lot of populated suburbs.

[Deleted User]

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

"superior appreciation on transport logistics"... Never said that, never thought it either.. (?)

....

Apologies, I took this speel "person from Cork, and a tourist to many different countries and airports, I understand how massively important public transport from and to an airport is. " as you trying to somehow qualify your opinion. If that's not what you were attempting I'm puzzled as to what the speel was about really.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Augeo wrote: »

U

All well and good but in the context of housing, office space and brexit it matters not a bit.
The airport is close to the city and to the main road that provides access to everywhere else.

I'm a person from cork, tourist to X,y,z etc etc too BTW along with hundreds of thousands others too....so don't be thinking you've a superior appreciation on transport logistics to the rest of us.

It's not massively important at all....it's a largely insignificant factor to the vast majority

"superior appreciation on transport logistics"... Never said that, never thought it either.. (?)

I'm simply saying that a growing airport should try and have a better public transport service/frequency serving it. Public transport is important and seems to always be left as an afterthought in this country unfortunately, hence our massive Co2 emissions and we'll now be paying for that significantly in fines... But that's for another thread.

Markcheese

Augeo wrote: »

By car outside of morning & evening peak times its a joy to be fair.
Folk busing it to the airport aren't a significant factor for anything really.

True.. I won't use buses to go to Cork airport anymore.. I just go to Dublin.. Its nearly as quick and overall cheaper..

[Deleted User]

EdgeCase wrote: »

The biggest concern for Cork in terms of Brexit is actually office space, housing and airport links.
It is and will continue to pull in businesses.

questionmark? wrote: »

Luckily the airport can expand with new routes if airlines think they will work. Can be done straight away.
Bigger issue is getting the offices, houses and transport sorted as that takes way too long in this country.

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

As a person from Cork, and a tourist to many different countries and airports, I understand how massively important public transport from and to an airport is. Not everyone wants to take taxis or pay a taxi fare.

We need to improve public transport across the country to get more cars off the roads. Not increase the amount on the roads.

All well and good but in the context of housing, office space and brexit it matters not a bit.
The airport is close to the city and to the main road that provides access to everywhere else.

I'm a person from cork, tourist to X,y,z etc etc too BTW along with hundreds of thousands others too....so don't be thinking you've a superior appreciation on transport logistics to the rest of us.

It's not massively important at all....it's a largely insignificant factor to the vast majority

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Augeo wrote: »

By car outside of morning & evening peak times its a joy to be fair.
Folk busing it to the airport aren't a significant factor for anything really.

As a person from Cork, and a tourist to many different countries and airports, I understand how massively important public transport from and to an airport is. Not everyone wants to take taxis or pay a taxi fare.

We need to improve public transport across the country to get more cars off the roads. Not increase the amount on the roads.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Access to the airport is a disaster

By car outside of morning & evening peak times its a joy to be fair.
Folk busing it to the airport aren't a significant factor for anything really.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Access to the airport is a disaster

I asked the airport if there were plans to improve bus frequency, especially with the growing traffic, and they fobbed me off telling me to "contact Bus Eireann to pass on my suggestion".

It needs a bus connection (226A) to run at least every 20 mins. Not to mention with the business park next door also. An hourly bus in the early hours of the morning would be ideal also for late night workers.

There's supposedly plans to route the 206 via the Airport after Grange, but I'm not sure when or if we'll see it in the near future. A more direct connection to town and back would be better anyway.

Sometimes there's no buses to meet late arriving flights which is ridiculous.

EdgeCase

It could do with a better bus connection to the city centre but it's probably one of the easiest airports to get to in any city that I've ever spent time in.

I can leave the house and be airside in about 20 mins, assuming you're not trying to get the there for 9am and using the N40 at rush hour

It's so close to the city and southern suburbs that it makes using a taxi very, very reasonable.

The biggest issue that it has is the site is making a runway extension problematic. That makes regular widebody aircraft fights unlikely and limits the development of transatlantic to using smaller aircraft like what Norwegian have done.

The other big issue is Aer Lingus scheduling European fights that leave too late. That's what killed the Brussels route. The flights got you there in the middle of the day and that meant having to spend an extra day in Brussels. So anyone going there just flew to Amsterdam instead or, in a lot of businesses case flew via Heathrow.

[Deleted User]

questionmark? wrote: »

Luckily the airport can expand with new routes if airlines think they will work. Can be done straight away.
Bigger issue is getting the offices, houses and transport sorted as that takes way too long in this country.

Access to the airport is a disaster

questionmark?

EdgeCase wrote: »

The biggest concern for Cork in terms of Brexit is actually office space, housing and airport links.
It is and will continue to pull in businesses.

Luckily the airport can expand with new routes if airlines think they will work. Can be done straight away.
Bigger issue is getting the offices, houses and transport sorted as that takes way too long in this country.

EdgeCase

The biggest concern for Cork in terms of Brexit is actually office space, housing and airport links.
It is and will continue to pull in businesses.

questionmark?

snotboogie wrote: »

Odd article in the echo on the docklands:

Green light for residential towers in Cork’s docklands

I thought that Penrose Dock has had piling going on for over a month? Yet here they are saying that they are still in site clearance? I would have thought they are a couple of weeks off two cranes going up on site. Also a mention of the Docklands Tower: Plans for a €250m mixed-used scheme on the former Port of Cork Harbour Commissioners site, to include a landmark tower with apartments, offices, a hotel, and the conservation of the landmark Port buildings and bonded warehouses, are being developed

Article says site clearance and preparation works. Presume Pilling comes under prep works.

snotboogie

Odd article in the echo on the docklands:

Green light for residential towers in Cork’s docklands

I thought that Penrose Dock has had piling going on for over a month? Yet here they are saying that they are still in site clearance? I would have thought they are a couple of weeks off two cranes going up on site. Also a mention of the Docklands Tower: Plans for a €250m mixed-used scheme on the former Port of Cork Harbour Commissioners site, to include a landmark tower with apartments, offices, a hotel, and the conservation of the landmark Port buildings and bonded warehouses, are being developed

snotboogie

WillieMason wrote: »

Will Brexit Help cork in regards the export business? Surly Cork will take away business from Dublin due to its Harbour?

I heard a minister on Newstalk say that Rosslare to Le Harve was our most direct route to mainland Europe..... Its great that the new Port of Cork is being built in Ringaskiddy but the Rochestown NIMBY's could ruin the whole thing with their M28 appeal. The most positive Brexit impacts could come from firms relocating from the UK to Cork. With the offices under construction now, we are setting ourselves up as a genuine alternative to Dublin.

WillieMason

Will Brexit Help cork in regards the export business? Surly Cork will take away business from Dublin due to its Harbour?

snotboogie

Prism developers defend their proposal

More noise from the O'Sullivan brothers crew. Hopefully this means that they will move quickly to construction if this gets approved in March or April.

mire

BUNK1982 wrote: »

An appeal is likely but I doubt it'll be entertained - this is quite close to the Elysian and the graphic there does not seem to include the nearby office blocks being developed.

I don't think this will be appealed

questionmark?

BUNK1982 wrote: »

An appeal is likely but I doubt it'll be entertained - this is quite close to the Elysian and the graphic there does not seem to include the nearby office blocks being developed.

The location does make sense. I look forward to seen it going ahead.