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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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cryptocurrency

prawnsambo wrote: »

You seriously think this is noteworthy?

I do realise when talking to europhiles they will just dismiss anything like this while blowing up the significance of minor events in Westminster. This whole thread just plans to peoples bias.

I take a new neutral stance which has led to my disliking the EU so strongly.

Hurrache

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I do realise when talking to europhiles they will just dismiss anything like this while blowing up the significance of minor events in Westminster. This whole thread just plans to peoples bias.

I take a new neutral stance which has led to my disliking the EU so strongly.

You don't take a neutral stance, stop bull****ting.

cryptocurrency

Hurrache wrote: »

He's talking about the EU mission, the US downgraded it to a intentional organisation from a nation state, a status given to it during the Obama administration, without actually having the balls to tell the EU about it.

The balls? They knew the EU would find out and had the balls to do it in the must pubically humiliating way. The EU found out when they realised they were not getting invites to events like proper countries were. Imagine being snubbed for an event where Namibia is given a full pass. Class.

Hurrache

More bull****.

They were getting invited to events, it was noticed when their order fell down the ranking.

But every EU state were there anyway as individual countries. I guess you like to believe all EU countries are excluded, to fit in with your "I'm a neutral but only I believe that" narrative.

cryptocurrency

Hurrache wrote: »

More bull****.

They were getting invited to events, it was noticed when their order fell down the ranking.

But every EU state were there anyway as individual countries. I guess you like to believe all EU countries are excluded, to fit in with your "I'm a neutral but only I believe that" narrative.

Not at all. An invite to Poland, Italy, France and Austria are invites for Poland, Italy, France and Austria, not the EU. The EU not getting one after Obama upgraded them and coupled with their lofty ambitions of federalism is one of the coolest snubs there is.
I think it is excellent and I would like to see much more of it. Washington, London and others should completely bypass the EU and talk around them. Treat them like some irrelevant talking shop and deal direct with the proper countries. Esp in security, pretend they are not there.

fly_agaric

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I take a new neutral stance which has led to my disliking the EU so strongly.

That sentence is contradictory.
Also, apart from hating the EU, from your postings on the thread you think Brexit is wonderful, the sun shines out of Trump's bottom and are a crypto-bug/libertarian.

These are not "neutral" political beliefs. They are massive outliers for Ireland anyway...

Hurrache

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Not at all. An invite to Poland, Italy, France and Austria are invites for Poland, Italy, France and Austria, not the EU. The EU not getting one after Obama upgraded them and coupled with their lofty ambitions of federalism is one of the coolest snubs there is.

You keep saying there was no invite, and yet you've yet to say to where?

FrancieBrady

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Not at all. An invite to Poland, Italy, France and Austria are invites for Poland, Italy, France and Austria, not the EU. The EU not getting one after Obama upgraded them and coupled with their lofty ambitions of federalism is one of the coolest snubs there is.
I think it is excellent and I would like to see much more of it. Washington, London and others should completely bypass the EU and talk around them. Treat them like some irrelevant talking shop and deal direct with the proper countries. Esp in security, pretend they are not there.

Trump playing unimportant silly buggers. Did anyone notice?

cryptocurrency

fly_agaric wrote: »

That sentence is contradictory.
Also, apart from hating the EU, from your postings on the thread you think Brexit is wonderful, the sun shines out of Trump's bottom and are a crypto-bug/libertarian.

These are not "neutral" political beliefs. They are massive outliers for Ireland anyway...

I hate the EU because I am into free markets and freedom. I see brexit as the ultimate litmus test of push back against the EU and would be extremely disappointed if it fails, it means everything to all free-willed people. I think Trump is a fool but he is a product of a disconnected political class and media, they created him. I get amused by the outrage he causes of the slightest thing and sees the masses being played like fiddles and performing their outrage when instructed...yet think they think independently. The NPC meme summed this up and maybe the greatest meme of all time.
I wish nothing but the best for Ireland but I tend to look at bigger pictures and longer views.

Hurrache

Oh look everyone, another contradictory post from this guy, in fact contradicting stuff he only posted minutes ago.

cryptocurrency

Hurrache wrote: »

Oh look everyone, another contradictory post from this guy, in fact contradicting stuff he only posted minutes ago.

I said I liked his stroke on the EU, I never said I thought he was great. I have enjoyed some of his moves.

Hurrache

You don't even know what I'm referring to because you post so much stuff you can't stand behind.

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The NPC meme summed this up and maybe the greatest meme of all time.

Oddly enough most people think Hitler was a bad guy too. I guess that reflects their lack of original thinking, eh?

And you like free markets, so you prefer 27 different markets all siloed with different rules and obstacles to trade, rather than one market with the same rules. That's certainly original, I'll give you that.

fash

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I hate the EU because I am into free markets and freedom.

The EU created a massive free market- the single market and was responsible for such things as the international growth of Aldi, Lidl, Ryanair, no roaming charges, getting rid of passport controls and granting freedoms of movement, of capital and of establishment to a very large group of people.
It also has the most number of trade agreements of any entity in history.

Why do you hate free markets and freedom so much so much if you are libertarian? Are you sure you are a libertarian?

cryptocurrency

Anthracite wrote: »

Oddly enough most people think Hitler was a bad guy too. I guess that reflects their lack of original thinking, eh?

And you like free markets, so you prefer 27 different markets all siloed with different rules and obstacles to trade, rather than one market with the same rules. That's certainly original, I'll give you that.

If the EU was all for free trade then they'd be happy to just trade with the UK without any hassle. The EU actually hates competition, loves taxation and hates freedom.

Hurrache

Hates competition so much they have a massive list of products from countries outside the EU they don't apply tariffs to.

You really are clueless as to what you think you know.

cryptocurrency

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Uhm the UK was trading with all other EU countries as freely as Texas trading with rest of US

Texas is to the US what Cornwall is to the UK. The fact you think the UK can be Texas to the EU's United States is the very reason it needs to break up.

cryptocurrency

Hurrache wrote: »

Hates competition so much they have a massive list of products from countries outside the EU they don't apply tariffs to.

You really are clueless as to what you think you know.

The list, carefully put together with protectionism in mind.

fly_agaric

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I hate the EU because I am into free markets and freedom. I see brexit as the ultimate litmus test of push back against the EU and would be extremely disappointed if it fails, it means everything to all free-willed people.

Well we all suffer disappointments in life I suppose.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I think Trump is a fool but he is a product of a disconnected political class and media, they created him.

True. They helped anyway.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I get amused by the outrage he causes of the slightest thing and sees the masses being played like fiddles and performing their outrage when instructed...yet think they think independently.
The NPC meme summed this up and maybe the greatest meme of all time.

The greatest "meme" of all time...?! a low bar.
From what I saw of it (vicariously on the US bits of the internet) it was very self unaware.
People re-posting + copy-pasting a meme (a limited selection of very simple images and stock phrases) in their own echo chambers about the silly "NPC" people who are criticising their hero. Kind of like a bunch of brainwashed robots! You could probably make a program to do it automatically (edit: nefarious people probably have!).

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I wish nothing but the best for Ireland but I tend to look at bigger pictures and longer views.

Well I'd say Ireland (and the people who live in it) have not been as free for several centuries, partly thanks to our EEC/EC/EU membership. If you were Irish you'd be able to take a longish view backwards instead of forwards (history + the evils of the past gets drummed into us here). Anyway don't know why I'm wasting my time with this.

Anthracite

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If the EU was all for free trade then they'd be happy to just trade with the UK without any hassle. The EU actually hates competition, loves taxation and hates freedom.

Gibberish.

You post such bilge here, it's as if you want to destroy the discussion.

cryptocurrency

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why? do you have a problem with United states too?

The fact you are trying to compare them is scary. The US is a country, they all believe in it and they sure as hell won't vote to break it up. The EU is a prison, where opinions are crushed.

CelticRambler

No-one this evening has picked up on Sky's report that the UK Govt awarded £75m's worth of contracts on the Q-T to a bunch of consultancy firms. No public tendering, no published terms of reference, and no answer from the government when asked who exactly sanctionned the expense.

Good job nobody in the Leave camp has any problem with faceless bureaucrats doing stuff in secret. :rolleyes:

(report on Sky News at about 20:15)

Christy42

cryptocurrency wrote: »

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Uhm the UK was trading with all other EU countries as freely as Texas trading with rest of US

Texas is to the US what Cornwall is to the UK. The fact you think the UK can be Texas to the EU's United States is the very reason it needs to break up.

The point was that they were trading freely with the EU. It was Brexit that is taking away a portion of the free market. It is Brexit bringing in import taxes.

No one said that the UK can be to the EU what Texas is to the US. They said they were trading like it which seems to be what you want. To say anything else is a gross misrepresentation of the post.

prawnsambo

Anthracite wrote: »

Gibberish.

You post such bilge here, it's as if you want to destroy the discussion.

There is a cure for this. And I'm availing of it now because this crap is derailing the thread and adding nothing.

Anthracite

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why? do you have a problem with united states too?

Obviously. They tax people, there are loads of laws there, they hate free trade (especially Trump with his tarriffs).

Otherwise he would be exposed as an idiotic troll just trying to debase this thread.

cryptocurrency

Anthracite wrote: »

Gibberish.

You post such bilge here, it's as if you want to destroy the discussion.

I want a free trade area, I absolutely despise the union with every fabric of my being. Why can't it just be a free trade group of 28 countries with standards agreed. Free to make their own independent deals and act independently.

hotmail.com

Delaying the leave date is the only logical thing to do at this stage. The referendum didn't specify leave the date so I'm sure the British can request a delay.

prawnsambo

CelticRambler wrote: »

No-one this evening has picked up on Sky's report that the UK Govt awarded £75m's worth of contracts on the Q-T to a bunch of consultancy firms. No public tendering, no published terms of reference, and no answer from the government when asked who exactly sanctionned the expense.

Good job nobody in the Leave camp has any problem with faceless bureaucrats doing stuff in secret. :rolleyes:

(report on Sky News at about 20:15)

And due to the wonders of the internet, somebody has put it all in a spreadsheet and shared it on Google docs.

Hurrache

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I want a free trade area, I absolutely despise the union with every fabric of my being. Why can't it just be a free trade group of 28 countries with standards agreed. Free to make their own independent deals and act independently.

Pretty extreme a considering you were neutral until quite recently. Have you been to the tropics lately, you coulda picked up a parasite.

fash

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If the EU was all for free trade then they'd be happy to just trade with the UK without any hassle. The EU actually hates competition, loves taxation and hates freedom.

The EU is perfectly happy to trade with the UK on whatever plan the UK wants:
You can have the Bugatti Veyron for a million, the Ferrari for €500k, the Mercedes for €100k, the SUV for €50k, the VW Golf for €20k, the Lads for €10k, the second hand car for €5k, the bike for €1k - or you can walk. Each one of those options can be tweaked up or down, stripped of features or come with all the trimmings and upgrades. What you can't have is the Bugatti Veyron for 2 buttons and some belly button fluff.

Ireland however (which has a veto on any trade agreement) is unhappy about the UK f*cking Ireland over yet again - why do you hate Ireland so much?