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Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

Clareman

This thread is to discuss all things Shannon Airport related.

Warning, any back biting, regional nonsense, trolling, baiting or back seat modding will lead to bans.

It's also important to remember than that this thread is in a regional forum, not the Aviation forum, if you want to get into details on Aviation, go to that forum. Finally, this is the Clare forum, there will be a bias towards Clare in here, so expect folk to want to defend their county .

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mdmix

snotboogie wrote: »

Cork is actually a bit lower; 2.3m 2017, projected to be 2.4m 2018 and they have themselves speculated 2.6m for 2019. Whether that 2.6m can be achieved remains to be seen.

Cork people are notoriously cork centric. One of the teams I work with flys to Boston twice a year, with 4 flying from Shannon. The one cork guy insists he must fly from cork usually via Heathrow. It causes hassle for everyone. While this is obviously the exception rather than the rule for most cork people, there are a sizable number of corkonians like this. I don’t think people of the west or Midwest have that kind of affinity with our airport.

I also do feel the DAA may be a bit bitter about the whole Shannon separation and are giving cork airport more attention than they would have in the past. Corks success is a big “I told you so” to Shannon.

mdmix

snotboogie wrote: »

Cork is actually a bit lower; 2.3m 2017, projected to be 2.4m 2018 and they have themselves speculated 2.6m for 2019. Whether that 2.6m can be achieved remains to be seen.

My bad, I have edited the post.

snotboogie

turbbo wrote: »

Shocked to know the numbers. Cork is way ahead I'm guessing because Dublin is seen as less of an option?

Cork is actually a bit lower; 2.3m 2017, projected to be 2.4m 2018 and they have themselves speculated 2.6m for 2019. Whether that 2.6m can be achieved remains to be seen.

turbbo

Shocked to know the numbers. Cork is way ahead I'm guessing because Dublin is seen as less of an option?

mdmix

Shannon currently handles around 1.7 million passengers a year. For comparison,

Dublin 30 million
Cork 2.3 million
Knock 700k

At independence, Shannon group made some wild projections, which I’m not sure anyone took serious, but then minister for transport Leo Varadkar said 3 million would be reasonably achievable. My own view is that with the right planning and strategy this could be achieved in 5 or so years. I think it would be reasonable to expect a return of regular Chicago flights and increase on Philadelphia and New York. It would also be reasonable to expect regular flights to 4-7 major EU cities.

Shannon has a lot going for it but it is not easy to book flights from Shannon unless you know what you are doing, I pointed out 2 examples in my last post which could easily be fixed if Shannon management were aware they could apply pressure to the relevant airlines. I don’t think they have people with the right skills. Shannon’s current marketing strategy is a good ideas “fly Shannon, it’s easier”, but that won’t work when it is so hard to book a flight online. Even the flyshannon.ie website is utterly useless. People who encounter issues shopping for flights online get irritated way to easily and will often abandon their purchase. I feel a lot of people who try to book from Shannon will inevitably get fed up and simply book from Dublin instead as this is easier (for no reason other than Dublin’s scale)

Shannon are starting to do a better job of marketing existing routes, but could do more. One of the unfortunate things about the Shannon region is how easy it is to get to Dublin. As seats on Shannon flights get booked up, the price goes up (as in all airports) but as ordinary people are often priced out of the last few expensive seats they are forced to Dublin where the extra capacity means extra cheap seats. The business community in Dublin will often buy the largest few expensive seats as costs are usually not important. I don’t think the business community in the Shannon region will often opt to travel to Dublin as its easier to book and travel times are friendlier.

I was chatting with a colleague last year as she had organized travel for around 50 people for a conference in limerick. She said she would have time to try and fly people through shannon (even the dozen or so from London) so booked all their flights to Dublin, organized taxi vouchers and train tickets to limerick. I have read many examples on this thread of people who tell how collegues regularily drive to to Dublin instead of using Shannon. There is not a whole lot that can be done about this in the short term, but Shannon management should establish a business outreach team who can survey the needs of business in the region to identify new opportunities. I’m sure they do this in some form already but such a team could offer additional support for conferences and do more outreach.

jasper100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Selective quotation of of context there twisting what I said. That's not very nice.

And nothing you've just said there contradicts what I said. SNN will never take passengers form the Dublin region out of DUB as you have claimed it could. However if SNN had more routes more local people would use the SNN rather than DUB. It's not that complicated and definitely isn't me talking out of both side of my mouth. Do try to keep up.

Why not?

I mentioned places like Athlone and Portlaoise. Not much in it distance wise between Shannon and Dublin.

At a stretch I mention as far away as Newbridge and Kildare, it being about an extra hour to get to Shannon. Norwegian fly to destinations 90 minutes outside New York, Ryanair have for years flown to airports outside major cities.

If Shannon wants to target people further away from the airport then promoting and marketing lower cost flights, cheap parking, competitive flight prices and shorter times from car door to airport gate will encourage people from further away to use it.

Shannon needs to play to and promote its advantages in choosing it over Dublin.

Cookiemunster

jasper100 wrote: »

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. One minute you are telling us the vast majority of people use the cheapest and closest airport and next minute you are telling us Shannon is only attractive if it has the routes to match Dublin.

Selective quotation of of context there twisting what I said. That's not very nice.

And nothing you've just said there contradicts what I said. SNN will never take passengers form the Dublin region out of DUB as you have claimed it could. However if SNN had more routes more local people would use the SNN rather than DUB. It's not that complicated and definitely isn't me talking out of both side of my mouth. Do try to keep up.

turbbo

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Can SNN increase it routes? Probably yes. Can SNN compete with DUB? Not in a million years. Lads ye a living in dream land if you think that SNN will ever draw large numbers of passengers out of DUB. It's not as simple as ye think it is. The airlines only want to be in DUB, where they're drawing passengers, not only from the Midwest, but from Cork and Belfast (which has two international airports) too. SNN is never going to be more than a small regional airport (and there's nothing wrong with that).

I don't think anybody is implying that SNN can compete with DUB you're just twisting it. What I'm saying is that SNN can be a lot more competitive than it is today - hell even try reduce the parking charges - ridiculous that they are on a par with Dublin.

jasper100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

But the vast majority people will choose the cheapest flights from the nearest airport.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

T
It's only attractive if SNN has the routes to compete with DUB. That's never going to happen.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Can SNN increase it routes? Probably yes. Can SNN compete with DUB? Not in a million years. Lads ye a living in dream land if you think that SNN will ever draw large numbers of passengers out of DUB. It's not as simple as ye think it is. The airlines only want to be in DUB, where they're drawing passengers, not only from the Midwest, but from Cork and Belfast (which has two international airports) too. SNN is never going to be more than a small regional airport (and there's nothing wrong with that).

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. One minute you are telling us the vast majority of people use the cheapest and closest airport and next minute you are telling us Shannon is only attractive if it has the routes to match Dublin.

Cookiemunster

Can SNN increase it routes? Probably yes. Can SNN compete with DUB? Not in a million years. Lads ye a living in dream land if you think that SNN will ever draw large numbers of passengers out of DUB. It's not as simple as ye think it is. The airlines only want to be in DUB, where they're drawing passengers, not only from the Midwest, but from Cork and Belfast (which has two international airports) too. SNN is never going to be more than a small regional airport (and there's nothing wrong with that).

jasper100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's only attractive if SNN has the routes to compete with DUB. That's never going to happen.

Nonsense, of course people in Galway will use the existing routes from Shannon more now that they can get here easier, its a lot closer and less hassle than Dublin.

Those extra bums on seats would perhaps make the existing routes more viable and perhaps sustain new routes in the future.

Its chicken and egg, more routes and increased frequencies will attract more passengers from a wider area.

jasper100

JCX BXC wrote: »

The new motorway, cutting what, 4 minutes off the previous drive to Galway?

Now that's just ridiculous. The journey Galway - Shannon is a doddle now, compared to what it was with traffic etc.

Not only this but it opens up Tuam, Athlone etc. for easy access to Shannon, and less hassle than Dublin, the airport need to get out and market this.

turbbo

Deagol wrote: »

I was happy just reading this thread until I read this nonsense. It's being facetious to suggest that the motorway hasn't significantly improved access to the airport.

Tuam to Shannon is roughly 40 minutes faster. I've measured it myself once and google maps with traffic is agreeing closely with that number NOW. If you take it that in fact if I used the old road previously to the motorway being built then the traffic would have been even worse.

If time from Tuam is faster then it goes without saying that other area's in the hinterland of Galway have comparable improved times with obvious adjustments depending on how far east or west of the motorway / old N18 they are.

I've checked Inverrin for instance also, and google maps is saying the motorway is 30 minutes faster. I could go on.

Google maps with traffic switched off is about as accurate as playing darts blindfolded.

Deagol

JCX BXC wrote: »

The new motorway, cutting what, 4 minutes off the previous drive to Galway?

I was happy just reading this thread until I read this nonsense. It's being facetious to suggest that the motorway hasn't significantly improved access to the airport.

Tuam to Shannon is roughly 40 minutes faster. I've measured it myself once and google maps with traffic is agreeing closely with that number NOW. If you take it that in fact if I used the old road previously to the motorway being built then the traffic would have been even worse.

If time from Tuam is faster then it goes without saying that other area's in the hinterland of Galway have comparable improved times with obvious adjustments depending on how far east or west of the motorway / old N18 they are.

I've checked Inverrin for instance also, and google maps is saying the motorway is 30 minutes faster. I could go on.

turbbo

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The motorway is 10Km longer than using the old N18. It's underused by locals as it's too far away from Galway. Google maps actually says taking the motorway takes slightly longer than taking the old N18.

Ah here - there is no arguing with you. You do know that you're using google maps - with traffic switched off?

Cookiemunster

turbbo wrote: »

WTF? On a busy summer day stuck behind tractors from Gort to Clarinbridge could add 40 mins to your journey easy. You haven't a notion if you think it only cuts 4 mins from Galway to Shannon. I'd say on average it cuts 20 mins a journey and makes for a far safer and comfortable drive.

The motorway is 10Km longer than using the old N18. It's underused by locals as it's too far away from Galway. Google maps actually says taking the motorway takes slightly longer than taking the old N18.

Just seen your edit. It's only attractive if SNN has the routes to compete with DUB. That's never going to happen.

turbbo

JCX BXC wrote: »

The new motorway, cutting what, 4 minutes off the previous drive to Galway?

WTF? On a busy summer day stuck behind tractors from Gort to Clarinbridge could add 40 mins to your journey easy. You haven't a notion if you think it only cuts 4 mins from Galway to Shannon. I'd say on average it cuts 20 mins a journey and makes for a far safer and comfortable drive.
Also it goes all the way to Tuam not to mention the catchment area of north Galway. Making it far more attractive to fly outta Shannon than having to drive to Dublin.

Poxyshamrock

jasper100 wrote: »

You didnt, you included all sorts of stuff like corporate jets, ba, kuwait, freight.

We are obviously discussing regular scheduled flights where people actually leave the airport on arrival.

This.

JCX BXC

jasper100 wrote: »

Shannon would cover Galway city in its catchment area as well at this stage, given the new motorway.

The new motorway, cutting what, 4 minutes off the previous drive to Galway?

Shn99

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

On a busy summer day, you will have between 25-30 commercial passenger flights. I can get the exact figures if someone wants to throw a date at me. Thursdays and Saturdays in July being the busiest days.

Was actually on the website earlier, it’s all new..they don’t do the summer/winter schedules anymore. Shame tbh

kilburn

The Shannon Group Marketing team need to find a niche and hit it hard maybe go for the family friendly strees free scenario.

On a side note the sensory room is fantastic and the plane collection so they have the right ideas as regards making it experiential

RocketRaccoon

On a busy summer day, you will have between 25-30 commercial passenger flights. I can get the exact figures if someone wants to throw a date at me. Thursdays and Saturdays in July being the busiest days.

Cookiemunster

jasper100 wrote: »

I never said parking was free, but competitive parking rates and shorter transit times from car parking space to airline gate will make shannon more attractive to people as far away as portlaoise, athlone etc.

I am not sure how important facilities after the gate are, I doubt anybody chooses an airport based on what extra shops they might have.

SNN will never have the route options of Dublin, so the argument is moot. But the vast majority people will choose the cheapest flights from the nearest airport. The generally don't consider anything else.

Shn99

jasper100 wrote: »

Of course they do but the discussion is about growing scheduled flights which the local population can avail of.

The more money they get, the more they can spent on marketing/Incentives ect

jasper100

Shn99 wrote: »

They all bring in money to the airport, dont they?

Of course they do but the discussion is about growing scheduled flights which the local population can avail of.

jasper100

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The M50 isn't gridlocked 24/7 and parking is Shannon isn't free. And while the queues are short the facilities after security are non existent compared to DUB. Quite simply the vast majority of people living within 50km of DUB will not ever travel to SNN. And SNN will never have the route choices to attract them anyway.

I never said parking was free, but competitive parking rates and shorter transit times from car parking space to airline gate will make shannon more attractive to people as far away as portlaoise, athlone etc.

I am not sure how important facilities after the gate are, I doubt anybody chooses an airport based on what extra shops they might have.

Shn99

jasper100 wrote: »

You didnt, you included all sorts of stuff like corporate jets, ba, kuwait, freight.

We are obviously discussing regular scheduled flights where people actually leave the airport on arrival.

They all bring in money to the airport, dont they?

Shn99

Sunny Gentle Koala wrote: »

You can't count the US military flights, nor the flights that do laps such as the Lufthansa one that did about 50 today

That would only equate to 1 movement, not 50..

nim1bdeh38l2cw

JCX BXC wrote: »

Where in the name of God did you pull this figure out of? It's very inaccurate.

In September (I chose September as it's neither the peak nor the trough) there was 2,066 movements, working out at nearly 69 a day or 34.5 in/out.

You can't count the US military flights, nor the flights that do laps such as the Lufthansa one that did about 50 today

Cookiemunster

jasper100 wrote: »

Why not?

People from Limerick go to Dublin for flights. Yes I know that's partly because there are very few connections from Shannon, but if I was living in Kildare then I'd have to factor in the potential gridlock on the M50, parking costs and time to get from long term car parks to Dublin airport, queues getting throught security etc.

Its an extra 130km to Shannon, so an extra hour. By having parking closer to the terminal, having cheaper costs, shorter security times, shorter walking times to gate etc. people won't be long biting into that extra hour.

I am not saying it should happen overnight, but it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

The M50 isn't gridlocked 24/7 and parking is Shannon isn't free. And while the queues are short the facilities after security are non existent compared to DUB. Quite simply the vast majority of people living within 50km of DUB will not ever travel to SNN. And SNN will never have the route choices to attract them anyway.