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Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Iwannahurl

MOD VOICE: So as not to take up room on the helmet thread I have taken out the last few pages of hi vis related material and put it together here. All material or threads relating specifically to hi vis will be moved in here or locked if it repeats what is already said in here. There are a few off topic posts but from now on if we could keep the discussion to Hi Vis, and related topics.

Cram

Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar was interviewed by Sean O'Rourke on RTE Radio 1 this morning.

Questions were submitted by listeners, and someone asked whether hi-viz and helmets were to be made mandatory for cyclists.

The Minister's response (paraphrased) was "hi-viz possibly, but the evidence is not great that helmets have a big impact on road safety."

I have mixed views on that response. The situation with helmets has been well rehearsed in this thread -- evidence of modest benefit versus anti-cycling effect of mandatory laws -- but it's odd that the Minister might consider making hi-viz mandatory given that there is no evidence (to date) that it reduces casualties.

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tomasrojo

https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1077206568192622592

Grassey

garda prevents disaster after arson attack at petrol station in Cork

The arsonist was cycling a bike, wearing a hi-vis jacket and white clothing.

Guess he went full camo for this :rolleyes:

conkennedy

Grassey wrote: »

garda prevents disaster after arson attack at petrol station in Cork

"around 15 minutes later, a garda rushed to the scene"

Must be a new definition of the meaning of 'rushed'

CramCycle

conkennedy wrote: »

"around 15 minutes later, a garda rushed to the scene"

Must be a new definition of the meaning of 'rushed'

I also understood it was pure luck he was passing and spotted it.

07Lapierre

More hi viz madness! Do we really need kids wearing hi viz while sitting INSIDE a black cargo bike?

https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1082217273660768256?s=21

conkennedy

CramCycle wrote: »

I also understood it was pure luck he was passing and spotted it.

Absolutely, it was just a pure coincidence he was passing by

site_owner

07Lapierre wrote: »

More hi viz madness! Do we really need kids wearing hi viz while sitting INSIDE a black cargo bike?

https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1082217273660768256?s=21

Why not interact with me on the tweet?

CramCycle

07Lapierre wrote: »

More hi viz madness! Do we really need kids wearing hi viz while sitting INSIDE a black cargo bike?

https://twitter.com/alan_downtown/status/1082217273660768256?s=21

Hardly madness, some schools ask parents to put hi vis on their kids on the walk to school, they may need it for a school trip. I think its a lovely tweet, and hi vis is not the thing to be picking on. Seen other pics on the tweets of that tweeter and they don't have HI Vis so hardly a big issue.

07Lapierre

CramCycle wrote: »

Hardly madness, some schools ask parents to put hi vis on their kids on the walk to school, they may need it for a school trip. I think its a lovely tweet, and hi vis is not the thing to be picking on. Seen other pics on the tweets of that tweeter and they don't have HI Vis so hardly a big issue.

Maybe but unless the kids are going for a walk along the M50 motorway, i think Hi-viz is a bit OTT. I guess it does make it easier to count the kids if there are a lot of them.

CramCycle

07Lapierre wrote: »

Maybe but unless the kids are going for a walk along the M50 motorway, i think Hi-viz is a bit OTT. I guess it does make it easier to count the kids if there are a lot of them.

My point was that it may have nothing to do with the tweeter. I disagree with Hi Vis for school trips as most schools use it. My daughters school used Pink Baseball caps, which was very effective. It is OTT if the tweeter put them on for the trip but on the same note, that's the parents choice, I am just happy to see some more families out enjoying sustainable commuting, so long as they don't give out when I don't do it, i really don't care.

07Lapierre

CramCycle wrote: »

My point was that it may have nothing to do with the tweeter. I disagree with Hi Vis for school trips as most schools use it. My daughters school used Pink Baseball caps, which was very effective. It is OTT if the tweeter put them on for the trip but on the same note, that's the parents choice, I am just happy to see some more families out enjoying sustainable commuting, so long as they don't give out when I don't do it, i really don't care.

Fair enough... guess I’m overly sensitive to hi vis on kids! I find it very annoying.

07Lapierre

site_owner wrote: »

Why not interact with me on the tweet?

I did, but my Twitter account was set to “Private” . I’ve changed it now.

site_owner

this is a weird experience, ireland is a small place...

my opinion on hi-vis
dont like it, dont care for it
i am, however, big on reflective gear and low and behold RSA hi-viz jackets are handy for the reflective stripes and that the kids will wear these jackets if i ask them to.
why do they wear it? all their friends have them i guess, all the schools put them on kids when they go out for walks etc. but they certainly wont wear sam brown belts or anything else reflective so everyones generally happy

why are they wearing it in this photo?
its early january, theyve been out on their scooters since 7.45am, its 8.15 in that photo and its only bright due to the camera taking good night time shots, its dark enough that i needed a torch to help a neighbor jump his car. i like the kids to have reflective gear when scooting, they have front lights but no where to mount a rear light.

why are they still wearing it in the cargo bike?
they refused to take them off, we were getting late and i didnt care as long as they were happy to go

how many times have they wore hi-viz on the cargo bike, trailer, bike seat?
i would estimate this is the first

did they wear hi-viz today?
not a hope, i could barely get regular coats on them

CramCycle

site_owner wrote: »

Why not interact with me on the tweet?

Only copped it is you, also had a quick skim and they aren't wearing Hi Vis in the other photos, so doesn't seem like its the norm, but even if it was, your the parent, that's your choice.

site_owner

anyone looking might also find some photos of me wearing an RSA hi-viz too. theres a nice freeze frame of me almost going under a bus...

i ahve 2 main reasons for wearing them
1) the reflective strips, not the yellow. i prefer a sam browne style, but the material on the free ones is uncomfotable so i'll often just go with the free RSA one
2) its one less thing to get shouted abuse at "wheres your f*cking hi viz" although its now going full circle with "hi viz w*nker" being the new one. also means i dont have to stop at the new garda checkpoints that keep springing up

tomasrojo

The kids in my daughters' school were pretty stoked to get their RSA hi-viz on National whatever-day-it-was a few months back. I think kids like that kind of thing.

[Deleted User]

CramCycle wrote: »

Hardly madness, some schools ask parents to put hi vis on their kids on the walk to school,

That's the madness though, isn't it? I've heard the primary school on Harolds Cross Road does this. Pure madness.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

It is OTT if the tweeter put them on for the trip but on the same note, that's the parents choice, I am just happy to see some more families out enjoying sustainable commuting, so long as they don't give out when I don't do it, i really don't care.

Reminds me that on my way home through the city centre on the cargo bike before Christmas, a seemingly cheery fellow on a bike pulled up alongside me, hail-fellowed me in an accent I can't identify, and then said: "I'm sorry, I just don't think those bikes are safe for children". They weren't even in the bike at the time. So I invited him to mind his own business.

site_owner

tomasrojo wrote: »

Reminds me that on my way home through the city centre on the cargo bike before Christmas, a seemingly cheery fellow on a bike pulled up alongside me, hail-fellowed me in an accent I can't identify, and then said: "I'm sorry, I just don't think those bikes are safe for children". They weren't even in the bike at the time. So I invited him to mind his own business.

when i had my first on a bike seat i got chased down by another cyclist to tell me to be a real parent and stop putting my kids in danger because we cycled on the road.
when i put them into a trailer i got told they weren't safe there, to stop taking such stupid risks. i think one person even wrote that they would be sad the day they read our obituary because i didn't listen to them.

now in the cargo bike, its been about 4 weeks, i think 650km covered, and nobody has said anything yet, but i'm sure its coming.

they are the minority, most people smile or wave or randomly say hello or ask me where they can get one.

[Deleted User]

Mine kicked off in her first year at big school last year on nearly the first day when they tried make her wear a yellow builders vest on a walk to the church like the rest of the kids. The teacher considered her pink vest she wears in the child seat and on her own bike to be invalid. 20 minute conversion on the phone about hi-vis later and I'm sure teacher still calling me an arsshole but Lily is pink in a sea of yellow to this day

Only reason she has one at all is she learned to cycle during a Grio and we played Giro out back with a pink vest and now she likes to wear it any time on the bike so I f'd up there now didn't I.

magicbastarder

spotted on twitter:

Scarborough Police say thieves may be wearing hi-vis gear to blend in

HIGH-visibility gear could be the new way for thieves to blend into the crowd said Scarborough Police senior Sergeant Glenn Dowding.
Sgt Dowding said there had been an increasing trend of thefts committed by people wearing high-vis clothing.
“It is quite surprising, hi-vis work clothing has become a new way to blend in,” he said.

https://www.communitynews.com.au/stirling-times/news/scarborough-police-say-thieves-may-be-wearing-hi-vis-gear-to-blend-in/

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

spotted on twitter:

Scarborough Police say thieves may be wearing hi-vis gear to blend in

https://www.communitynews.com.au/stirling-times/news/scarborough-police-say-thieves-may-be-wearing-hi-vis-gear-to-blend-in/

Similar story posted here where a posters partner had their bike nicked by someone in a Hi Vis jacket and a bike helmet, ot blend in as they entered the area the bikes were locked up.

Hurrache

magicbastarder wrote: »

spotted on twitter:

Scarborough Police say thieves may be wearing hi-vis gear to blend in

https://www.communitynews.com.au/stirling-times/news/scarborough-police-say-thieves-may-be-wearing-hi-vis-gear-to-blend-in/

Don't think it can be classed as a new way to blend in, it's a common enough method in Ireland anyway.

magicbastarder

i know a chap (a locksmith) who has plenty of stories about not beinq questioned while wearing hi-vis.
he once had to drill out the lock on a front door on landsdowne road for a client, on a day there was an international on (it was an emergency) and despite the place being lousy with gardai, no one said boo to him.

Macy0161

We're nearly at Operation Transformation time, with loads of walks around GAA Pitches and Parks, with mandatory Hi Viz...

CramCycle

Hurrache wrote: »

Don't think it can be classed as a new way to blend in, it's a common enough method in Ireland anyway.

Also forgot about the bike thefts beside the Car Park in Dundrum (across from the taxi rank). For ages a white van was rocking up at random times, two lads in Hi Vis were hopping out and cutting bike locks on anything not on the sheffield stands and piling them into their van. Gardai were saying the big issue is no one was ringing them at the time, everyone who was not a cyclist presumed they were council workers.

rubadub

TheChizler wrote: »

The torch thing might be a law actually, at least it's in the rules of the road (is there a real law behind it? Maybe it's the RSA making up things again).

It is not a law. In the RoTR they use the word "must" and "should", and "must" refers to laws, "should" is their own recommendations.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

This book uses a ‘how to’ approach and covers many of the manoeuvres
identified as factors in road crashes. It uses three methods to set out clearly and
concisely how the law applies to all road users.
It uses must and must not to draw attention to behaviour the law clearly
demands or forbids.
It uses terms such as should and should not to tell you how best to act in
a situation where no legal rule is in place.

Walking beside or along a road
If there is a footpath, you must use it.
If there is no footpath, you must walk as near as possible to the righthand side of the road (facing oncoming traffic).
Do not walk more than two abreast. If the road is narrow or carries heavy
traffic, you should walk in single file.
You should always wear bright and hi-viz clothing during the day and
reflective clothing at night when walking outside built-up areas.
You should always carry a torch when walking at night time.
You should always be aware of other road users.

xckjoo

Duffryman wrote: »

I simply don't understand your attitude. To me, it smacks of refusing to take responsibility for your own safety.

What's wrong with asking somebody who's walking at night on a country road with no footpaths and no street lights to wear a high-vis vest?

Remember there's no legal requirement to carry a torch in such circumstances either. Suppose there was a proposal about this instead. How would you feel about that one?

What annoys me about the High Viz push is that it's treated like they're protection from a speeding car, instead of the minor visual aid they are. The primary personal responsibility should lie with the person controlling the car and all this recent High Viz talk is being used to obfuscate that responsibility. It also fosters the mindset that you can drive faster and with less care because you'll see everyone from miles away (untrue).

Duffryman

Too many replies to my point about pedestrians and high-vis on unlit country roads to quote any one of them in a reply here.

I'm talking about this from the point of view of somebody who lives on a typical rural road - no lights, no footpaths, and about 4 metres wide in most places, so you're definitely slowing down and probably going onto the grass verge too, every single time you meet another vehicle.

I know from regular personal experience that if somebody is walking that road, I'll see them from a long distance away if they're wearing high-vis. This gives me much more time to slow down to go round them, or slow down almost or completely to a halt before I reach them if another vehicle happens to be coming the other way too. Not that I'd be going at breakneck speed anyway - probably 50 to 60 km/h would be normal on our road.

However, if they're all in dark clothes, I won't see them until I'm much closer, no matter how much attention I'm paying.

So, a pedestrian who's wearing high-vis while they walk such roads helps drivers to see them earlier and have more time to react accordingly. Despite all the points that many of you are making, I still fail to see how that's a bad thing.

I'd speculate that many or most of you who question the usefulness of high vis on such roads probably live and do most or all of your driving/cycling/walking in towns or cities yourselves, under street lights, and have no real appreciation of just how dark a typical country road is.

[Deleted User]

Duffryman wrote: »

I simply don't understand your attitude. To me, it smacks of refusing to take responsibility for your own safety.

What's wrong with asking somebody who's walking at night on a country road with no footpaths and no street lights to wear a high-vis vest?

Remember there's no legal requirement to carry a torch in such circumstances either. Suppose there was a proposal about this instead. How would you feel about that one?

Can we also ask all motorists to fit wide, hi-vis stripes on all sides of their cars so they are visible from all directions, regardless of whether or not lights are switched on and working?