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Niro Phev

All in all

Hi all, some great reading in the threads here.
I am considering making the change to fully electric or phev. My work commute is 50 km each way and have access to a charger in public car park at work, however one day each week I travel approx 270-300 km. I haven’t researched charging spots on this route.

The niro phev has caught my eye and I was looking at 6-12 month old ones in the U.K. for £21-22k, from the best I can look up online there would be relief of €2250 on the vrt? Does anyone know if this is correct, would I be eligible for any seai grants?.

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Springwell

The worst I've got so far is 35km/l or 98mpg but yes, 40km/l is my normal with the amount of charging I do

daheff

So this page is claiming 1.3l/100km & 58km electric range.

The battery is a 8.9 kwh battery (correct me if I'm wrong)?

So you are getting 6.5km/kwh ? Looking at the 64 kwh Kona, range 480km that has 7.5km/kwh vs the L40 at 9.5km/kwh.

I know we arent comparing like with like, but the range per kwh is 2/3 of a leaf?

I know real world we arent getting these ranges, but i'm evaluating which is better for me to buy (monetarily) and these ranges/kwh make a difference.

Shefwedfan

daheff wrote: »

So this page is claiming 1.3l/100km & 58km electric range.

The battery is a 8.9 kwh battery (correct me if I'm wrong)?

So you are getting 6.5km/kwh ? Looking at the 64 kwh Kona, range 480km that has 7.5km/kwh vs the L40 at 9.5km/kwh.

I know we arent comparing like with like, but the range per kwh is 2/3 of a leaf?

I know real world we arent getting these ranges, but i'm evaluating which is better for me to buy (monetarily) and these ranges/kwh make a difference.

The km/kWh is not a figure most people use. Most people use kWh/100km.

The Leaf is not very econimical if you compare it to Ioniq/Kona/eGolf. I would expect the Niro to be similar to the Kona because of the same components.....

Any numbers online are mostly bulls**t. If you talk to users and ask what kWh/100lkm they are getting that will give you the real view.....

I would not buy a car based on the numbers online.

Shefwedfan

Springwell wrote: »

The worst I've got so far is 35km/l or 98mpg but yes, 40km/l is my normal with the amount of charging I do

Thanks, I have Rav4 hybrid for the week. It is a 181 so old model compared to the one which will be released next year but after doing a few school runs etc I am at 6.6ltr/100km....

Now the Galaxy is doing 8ltr/100km.....so really I would be saving maybe 1.5ltr/100km. With the cost difference between petrol/diesel it is not really worth it

Now don't get me wrong, the Rav is a lovely car and really I forgot how much I like the Crossover type car. Getting the kids in & out compared to the eGolf is a joy.

What I would love if at the end of this demo if I could get my hands on a Niro for a few days to do a similar test, I think most of the driving I do could be done on battery alone

daheff

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Any numbers online are mostly bulls**t. If you talk to users and ask what kWh/100km they are getting that will give you the real view.....

I would not buy a car based on the numbers online.

I understand that the online numbers are 'sales talk', but i need to start at some even point to make comparisons. I can ask users what they get, but everybody drives different routes/ways so no 2 users would have the same kwh/100km (or whatever) and makes it more difficult to evaluate.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The km/kWh is not a figure most people use. Most people use kWh/100km.

Fair enough. They are the same thing, but just from different side. I'm using it to work out how much it costs to charge per range of vehicle. To get a cost per km

Shefwedfan

daheff wrote: »

I understand that the online numbers are 'sales talk', but i need to start at some even point to make comparisons. I can ask users what they get, but everybody drives different routes/ways so no 2 users would have the same kwh/100km (or whatever) and makes it more difficult to evaluate.

Fair enough. They are the same thing, but just from different side. I'm using it to work out how much it costs to charge per range of vehicle. To get a cost per km

Ok, what are you trying to understand.Maybe a better question....

Shefwedfan

Very interesting review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qyza5APLbI&t=0s

Pity he wouldn't do more PHEV's

50km on the battery is impressive.

If I probably monitor what I do most days I could everything on battery

daheff

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok, what are you trying to understand.Maybe a better question....

so i'm trying to work out my fuel costs on various vehicles.

I'm working out I do approx 20k km per year (70km a day). Niro PHEV range is (Allegedly) 58km from battery of 8.9kwh.

My unit cost of electricty is 0.1852c per KW. So i work out (and excuse this back of cigarette packet calc here) that I can charge every night so of my annual commute 15,080 km will be powered by battery (lets take given numbers as true for the moment).

So Niro costs me 15080/58 (number of charges per year) =260
8.9kwh *0.1852c =1.64828 EUR per charge = 428.55 electric costs

Whereas if I had a 40kwh leaf - I'd get 378km from a charge. Charge would cost 40*0.1852c =7.408 EUR, but I'd only need 53
of them (1 a week or so) so this would cost 392 EUR (53*7.408).

So the Niro would cost more for the battery charge than a leaf (or Kona), AND I'd still need to top up the costs with Petrol too.

Shefwedfan

daheff wrote: »

so i'm trying to work out my fuel costs on various vehicles.

I'm working out I do approx 20k km per year (70km a day). Niro PHEV range is (Allegedly) 58km from battery of 8.9kwh.

My unit cost of electricty is 0.1852c per KW. So i work out (and excuse this back of cigarette packet calc here) that I can charge every night so of my annual commute 15,080 km will be powered by battery (lets take given numbers as true for the moment).

So Niro costs me 15080/58 (number of charges per year) =260
8.9kwh *0.1852c =1.64828 EUR per charge = 428.55 electric costs

Whereas if I had a 40kwh leaf - I'd get 378km from a charge. Charge would cost 40*0.1852c =7.408 EUR, but I'd only need 53
of them (1 a week or so) so this would cost 392 EUR (53*7.408).

So the Niro would cost more for the battery charge than a leaf (or Kona), AND I'd still need to top up the costs with Petrol too.

You are comparing apples with oranges to be honest

A PHEV is always going to be less econmical, it is carrying around a big petrol engine and a fuel tank full of petrol plus an electric engine with a battery.....PHEV is a stop gap to people who want to go electric but potentially need to do long distance driving and dont want to use the charging network.

The Leaf will not do 378km. Not a hope in hell.....check on leaf thread for feedback.

Maybe I missed but did you start a thread with your requirements? do you want to go full electric or is PHEV the preferred option?

daheff

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You are comparing apples with oranges to be honest

A PHEV is always going to be less econmical, it is carrying around a big petrol engine and a fuel tank full of petrol plus an electric engine with a battery.....PHEV is a stop gap to people who want to go electric but potentially need to do long distance driving and dont want to use the charging network.

The Leaf will not do 378km. Not a hope in hell.....check on leaf thread for feedback.

Maybe I missed but did you start a thread with your requirements? do you want to go full electric or is PHEV the preferred option?

Yeah I know they arent interchangeable. I'm working the numbers on some options based on my requirements. Hyundai kona petrol (mid range costing circa 26k)would end up being cheaper than a Kona EV (10k is a lot of miles to break even). So that analysis had me thinking on what would work best. So I ran some numbers & when i saw expected power cost for L40 vs PHEV i was surprised at the drop off in efficiency(alleged!)

I did have a thread. Must update it with my calculations.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057907219/1

I know none of the cars give the mileage/range they claim....but i figure if they are all wrong, they are probably all out similar %

Having looked at the numbers, the kia niro phev seems to be best value (mainly because it has highest guaranteed future value- from pcp)

edit- Kia seem to have updated their PCP calculator overnight. Had been offering GMFV of 14,398 yesterday. Today its 12,398

Springwell

If you can do the majority of your driving within the battery range then PHEVs work well - Niro works for us as we charge at home and work but it can do long journeys without having to charge. For intermediate stuff we have a Zoe.

Shefwedfan

daheff wrote: »

edit- Kia seem to have updated their PCP calculator overnight. Had been offering GMFV of 14,398 yesterday. Today its 12,398

In regards to your thread Jesus you got a lot of **** advice, seriously the diesel brigade out in force, not an ounce of sense

In regards to GMFV, what exactly does that mean?

daheff

Shefwedfan wrote: »

In regards to your thread Jesus you got a lot of **** advice, seriously the diesel brigade out in force, not an ounce of sense

In regards to GMFV, what exactly does that mean?

GMFV = Guaranteed Minimum Future Value .

On a PCP its the balloon payment at the end & minimum the dealer guarantees to give you for the car. I'm using it as a guide for calculating depreciation.

Shefwedfan

daheff wrote: »

GMFV = Guaranteed Minimum Future Value .

On a PCP its the balloon payment at the end & minimum the dealer guarantees to give you for the car. I'm using it as a guide for calculating depreciation.

Sorry I know what gmfv means but not sure what diffference it will make? E.g is it better higher or lower?

Depreciation can be figured out using a magic ball....mostly it says unsure

What is going to happen is that electric and PHEV will become more popular and diesel will be pushed out...

Now the question is how to you rate the Leaf due to rapidgate, if they fix the problem in every other car will the Leaf 2 drop like a stone? Personally I don’t think it will but worth considering

daheff

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry I know what gmfv means but not sure what diffference it will make? E.g is it better higher or lower?

Depreciation can be figured out using a magic ball....mostly it says unsure

What is going to happen is that electric and PHEV will become more popular and diesel will be pushed out...

Now the question is how to you rate the Leaf due to rapidgate, if they fix the problem in every other car will the Leaf 2 drop like a stone? Personally I don’t think it will but worth considering

I'm thinking higher (%) gmfv the better for 2 reasons

i pay less on monthly pcp repayments-
if car values drop like a stone i can walk away & keep the balloon payment for a deposit on next car.

And higher gmfv means manufacturer is trying to keep resale values up. So may be better equity in it after 3 years.

As i mentioned in an earlier post Niro Phev had (2days ago) a much higher % gmfv- think it was 46% vs 40% on others i looked at=. It made it almost a no brainer.... but they must have spotted it & changed it. Now its a push whether i get hybrid or phev.

Really not sure on the L40. Rapidgate may not effect most, but if the L60 has it fixed it will effect resale of the L40.

Shefwedfan

I noticed the price for the Niro self charging hybrid is extremely cheap, I think I seen a 181 for 20k last night on Carzone....now it was late.....

When you think the rav4 self charging hybrid I am testing cost nearly 40k new

P.S The self charging bit is only a joke

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I noticed the price for the Niro self charging hybrid is extremely cheap, I think I seen a 181 for 20k last night on Carzone....now it was late.....

When you think the rav4 self charging hybrid I am testing cost nearly 40k new

P.S The self charging bit is only a joke

I doubt it. I’d say €25k at least. They are €30k new.

How much wine were you after?

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

I doubt it. I’d say €25k at least. They are €30k new.

How much wine were you after?

Gowan Motors Navajo road, can’t link as on phone...182 20k....now it seems a stock ad but it mentions 22k in ad

Next one up in 25k but still compared to the Rav

Only 1 glass last night......forgot to restock this week .....won’t make that mistake tonight

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Gowan Motors Navajo road, can’t link as on phone...182 20k....now it seems a stock ad but it mentions 22k in ad

Next one up in 25k but still compared to the Rav

Only 1 glass last night......forgot to restock this week .....won’t make that mistake tonight

The cheapest Niro I see on carzone is €25k and thats for a 181.

There is no way they are selling a 182 €30k car for €20k or €22k. My guess is it was a mistake and they removed it.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

The cheapest Niro I see on carzone is €25k and thats for a 181.

There is no way they are selling a 182 €30k car for €20k or €22k. My guess is it was a mistake and they removed it.

Its a bloody Ceed which came up on the Niro search :-)

jarrieta

One question for the Niro PHEV owners, I guess the Irish model comes with LKAS (no LFA), is it as bad as the Ioniq, doing ping-pong between the lane lines?

Does it have adaptive cruise control? If it does I guess it is not start-stop, so you have to brake to stop the car before hitting the rear of the car in front and engage it again when going over some speed?

I have not found a definite answer online

unkel

jarrieta wrote: »

One question for the Niro PHEV owners, I guess the Irish model comes with LKAS (no LFA), is it as bad as the Ioniq, doing ping-pong between the lane lines?

Eh?

A few months ago it drove for a good 10-15km for me without me having to touch the steering wheel. It never ping-ponged between the lane lines, although at times it was closer to the left line than I would have driven the car myself. But never on the line and certainly not over it. Also never anywhere near the right line. I was in the overtaking lane all that time though, don't know if that makes a difference. Maybe you didn't set it to the highest active level?

jarrieta

Oh, ok, I was basing my comment in reviews as I have never driven an Ioniq, I guess it is not as bad as some people say then and the Niro has the same system?

KCross

Springwell wrote: »

Get 55-58km from the battery now, not sure how winter will affect that...

Are you still getting 50km+ in EV only mode?

Springwell

Yes, 51km today on battery going over Wicklow Gap.

ETA: Car has just gone over 18.000km on the clock since pick up in August. I've just done December budget/accounts and €127 was all the fuel that went in it in December. Compared to €90 a week in 2012 Peugeot 3008 before we changed.

KCross

Got a quote for a 191: €31k OTR inc metallic.

181’s in the UK can be bought and VRT’d here for an all-in price of <€25k, so weighing up the options at the moment.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

Got a quote for a 191: €31k OTR inc metallic.

181’s in the UK can be bought and VRT’d here for an all-in price of <€25k, so weighing up the options at the moment.

Why PHEV? Is this to replace your electric?

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why PHEV? Is this to replace your electric?

Replace remaining diesel. Keeping Leaf.

Not willing to spend €40k on a long range BEV from Korea and need something that can do long range when needed. Don’t want pure ICE.

That unfortunately leaves PHEV. Unless you good folks have any better ideas?

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

Got a quote for a 191: €31k OTR inc metallic.

181’s in the UK can be bought and VRT’d here for an all-in price of <€25k, so weighing up the options at the moment.

For 25k you'd get a 181 BMW 330e all in

What are they here new 50k?

Some cat too

Almost 300bhp

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

For 25k you'd get a 181 BMW 330e all in

What are they here new 50k?

Some cat too

Almost 300bhp

I have been watching them too. Poor EV range though.