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Child Item

Abortion Discussion, Part Trois

PopePalpatine

I didn't know whether to post this here or in the Sanctimony of Pro-Lifers thread in t'udder forum - a BBC article on Paraguay's "epidemic" of child pregnancies. Paraguay only allows for abortion if the mother's life is at risk. On average, two girls aged 14 and under become pregnant in Paraguay every day.

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Igotadose

end of the road wrote: »

abortion on demand will never be 100% or even near it "normalised" . everywhere it exists continues to have people opposed to it, ireland will be no different.

"Trust women." It's all about making it acceptable and nothing to be ashamed of, or embarrassed about. Shoutyourabortion.com is a good site to review.

The losers protesting in front of that Galway clinic are all about shaming and guilt. Feck off the lot of 'em. They could care less about women or the babies once they're born. They're likely funded by the anti-abortion industry from the US, probably through their IONA lackeys in Ireland.

Loafing Oaf

Igotadose wrote: »

Feck Diarmuid Martin. He and his kind can piss off to whatever anti-woman backwater now favored by his dying religion. Poland? With their draconian anti-abortion laws? Remember the RCC are the ultimate manipulators and play the long game at all times. Wasn't he the nim that said everyone should go to confession soon after the 8th was repealed?

No AFAIK. Bishop Doran of Elphin did. Not sure why you're slamming him for urging caution over anti-abortion protests at GP surgeries either.

end of the road

Igotadose wrote: »

Feck Diarmuid Martin. He and his kind can piss off to whatever anti-woman backwater now favored by his dying religion. Poland? With their draconian anti-abortion laws? Remember the RCC are the ultimate manipulators and play the long game at all times. Wasn't he the nim that said everyone should go to confession soon after the 8th was repealed? Just a stain on humanity wearing a dress telling women how to run their lives.

O.K. enough ranting. Here's an article from Salon that has in it, a lot of data (yes! data!) about women wanting abortions, what happens if they don't get them (3 times more likely to be unemployed in the US within 6 months), and is one of many in a recent raft of normalizing abortion, which is what's needed in Ireland. There's *no reason* to regret an abortion, and *no reason* to be embarrassed about talking about it. That's how to best combat the lying hatebothers and their RCC backers.

"Trust women."

https://www.salon.com/2018/01/22/on-abortion-its-time-to-start-trusting-women-they-know-what-theyre-doing/

abortion on demand will never be 100% or even near it "normalised" . everywhere it exists continues to have people opposed to it, ireland will be no different.

Igotadose

Feck Diarmuid Martin. He and his kind can piss off to whatever anti-woman backwater now favored by his dying religion. Poland? With their draconian anti-abortion laws? Remember the RCC are the ultimate manipulators and play the long game at all times. Wasn't he the nim that said everyone should go to confession soon after the 8th was repealed? Just a stain on humanity wearing a dress telling women how to run their lives.

O.K. enough ranting. Here's an article from Salon that has in it, a lot of data (yes! data!) about women wanting abortions, what happens if they don't get them (3 times more likely to be unemployed in the US within 6 months), and is one of many in a recent raft of normalizing abortion, which is what's needed in Ireland. There's *no reason* to regret an abortion, and *no reason* to be embarrassed about talking about it. That's how to best combat the lying hatebothers and their RCC backers.

"Trust women."

https://www.salon.com/2018/01/22/on-abortion-its-time-to-start-trusting-women-they-know-what-theyre-doing/

Bredabe

Odhinn wrote: »

Careful now

"Catholic Archbishop of Dublin Dr Diarmuid Martin has urged caution over anti-abortion protests at GP surgeries.
He said that while "everybody has a right to make a protest", GP surgeries were used by everybody for all sorts of reasons.
Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Dr Martin said: "With regard to protest, we have a constitution which protects freedom of expression, everybody has a right to make a protest."
"Protesting within the rule of law and the rule of the constitution, you can't be against it.
"I would be particularly cautious about protesting against GPs because everybody is going there, and people go there for all sorts of reasons."
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0106/1020592-diarmuid-martin/

While I welcome this kind of moderate thinking, the fact that he and the teashop are saying pretty much the same thing on this matter is sending my spidies into overdrive.
Hopefully they'll stop deliberately blocking up dr's phone lines as well.

Odhinn

Careful now

"Catholic Archbishop of Dublin Dr Diarmuid Martin has urged caution over anti-abortion protests at GP surgeries.
He said that while "everybody has a right to make a protest", GP surgeries were used by everybody for all sorts of reasons.
Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Dr Martin said: "With regard to protest, we have a constitution which protects freedom of expression, everybody has a right to make a protest."
"Protesting within the rule of law and the rule of the constitution, you can't be against it.
"I would be particularly cautious about protesting against GPs because everybody is going there, and people go there for all sorts of reasons."
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0106/1020592-diarmuid-martin/

[Deleted User]

end of the road wrote: »

which is irrelevant given his point was about maturnity care.

It's very relevant.
The dishonest point he was making seems to be that doctors make more money for abortions than providing care to babies.
That apparently is untrue.

Again, facts are not on your side.

Answer my previous questions.

end of the road

Pherekydes wrote: »

Most abortions are free, at the behest of the "creator". Strange world. He sticks a soul in there and then aborts them, unbaptized. Guess what that means?

God: the biggest abortionist.

that's only if you believe he exists.

Pherekydes

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Irish GPs get about 220 for maternity care but 450 to abort. What a shameful country we live in.

Most abortions are free, at the behest of the "creator". Strange world. He sticks a soul in there and then aborts them, unbaptized. Guess what that means?

God: the biggest abortionist.

end of the road

gctest50 wrote: »

Irish GPs also get about 380* to vaccinate a kid

So : 220 + 380 = 600

vs.

450

which is irrelevant given his point was about maturnity care.

gctest50

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Irish GPs get about 220 for maternity care but 450 to abort. What a shameful country we live in.

Irish GPs also get about 380* to vaccinate a kid

So : 220 + 380 = 600

vs.

450

.

SusieBlue

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Irish GPs get about 220 for maternity care but 450 to abort. What a shameful country we live in.

Source for this please?

uptherebels

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Irish GPs get about 220 for maternity care but 450 to abort. What a shameful country we live in.

And what exactly does the 220 pay for?
As you are clearly so knowledgeable you can break it down.

An_Toirpin

Irish GPs get about 220 for maternity care but 450 to abort. What a shameful country we live in.

SusieBlue

I was at my GP during the week and asked just out of general interest had she signed up, because I knew she was a Yes voter.

She said she would be, but what with Christmas/New Year and the surgery being extra busy, she hadn’t gotten a chance to sort it all out yet, but that she most definitely would be.

I imagine that many other clinics are in a similar position.
With that in mind I actually think 200 is a fantastic number, given it’s one of the busiest times of year for GPs and it’s only 5 days into the year.

volchitsa

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

200 is a good number! And it’s not the final number. I’m pretty chuffed with that.

I wonder how many GPs and pharmacies refused to provide the contraceptive pill in the first week after it was legalised? Plenty I'd say. And how many now?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Odhinn wrote: »

"No abortions are being provided in Sligo, Leitrim, Carlow and Offaly because not a single GP in the four counties has signed up to the new service.
At the end of the first week since abortion became legal, the number of GPs who have agreed to perform medical abortions has risen to 200, from 187 on Wednesday."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/no-abortion-service-being-provided-in-four-counties-1.3748059

I would have expected Donegal to be on that list, but apparently its belying its reputation.

200 is a good number! And it’s not the final number. I’m pretty chuffed with that.

Igotadose

Odhinn wrote: »

"No abortions are being provided in Sligo, Leitrim, Carlow and Offaly because not a single GP in the four counties has signed up to the new service.
At the end of the first week since abortion became legal, the number of GPs who have agreed to perform medical abortions has risen to 200, from 187 on Wednesday."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/no-abortion-service-being-provided-in-four-counties-1.3748059

I would have expected Donegal to be on that list, but apparently its belying its reputation.

Leitrim's no surprise though. And, this is the first week. Let's see where they are in a month.

Odhinn

"No abortions are being provided in Sligo, Leitrim, Carlow and Offaly because not a single GP in the four counties has signed up to the new service.
At the end of the first week since abortion became legal, the number of GPs who have agreed to perform medical abortions has risen to 200, from 187 on Wednesday."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/no-abortion-service-being-provided-in-four-counties-1.3748059

I would have expected Donegal to be on that list, but apparently its belying its reputation.

volchitsa

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

And they’d by that point have some of her details and know she’s pregnant. I wouldn’t like an organisation like that to hold information on me. They’d have already proven that they can’t be trusted.

Would someone in the organisation try and work out from her address where the closest GP to her with abortion services is and just “happen” to organise a little protest there?

Or even call her up themselves, to explain the "morality" of her decision to her, in case she hadn't understood properly?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Surely she’d know what side the counselors on when she hears the advice?

And she’s free to leave the place at that point.

And she’s free to completely ignore the advice.

Exactly what right does she have that’s being violated.

I think your point that she has the right to know what type of advice she he’s going to hear before she’s heard it at which point she knows what she’s going to hear and is in fact hearing it is a bunch of hooey and something you just came up with to move the goal posts.

I mean, how can you have a right to know what your signing up to hear before you’ve heard it. It’s a silly right. In order to guarantee it, you have to violate it. We both know your fibbing.

And they’d by that point have some of her details and know she’s pregnant. I wouldn’t like an organisation like that to hold information on me. They’d have already proven that they can’t be trusted.

Would someone in the organisation try and work out from her address where the closest GP to her with abortion services is and just “happen” to organise a little protest there?

aloyisious

Sean.3516 wrote: »

1. It doesn’t delay them through misinformation. Moral counseling focuses on the morality of the procedure, not the terms under which the abortion is available.

2. Tricks them? Tricks them?

It read's like you think the actions of those behind the duplicate agencies using titles similar to the one used by the HSE are OK because it is just clever marketing intended to draw in the unwary and feed them a false line, keeping in mind that the duplicate agencies will not be providing abortion advice. Does that confidence-trickery sit OK with you when it comes to pregnant women and girls seeking abortion advice?

It look's like the "moral" people behind the alternative "agencies" are aware that their moral line is debunked in the minds of most people, incl the prospective women/girls the "agencies" are aimed at, hence their need to peddle the line that they are abortion advice agencies, rather than the honest fact that they are anti-abortion advice agencies intent on the prevention of abortion.

robindch

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

They have not just joined. They have been posting on this thread since they created their account in june.

Ach, the dangers of posting a quick reply!

Anyway, Sean - please review the forum charter before posting again.

Thank you.

ohnonotgmail

robindch wrote: »

Mod:Sean - great to have you joining us here in A+A and may I take this opportunity to wish you and yours a happy new year!

As you appear to be a new poster here, you might like to review the charter here before you post again in A+A as your attitude suggests you may not have had time to study rule 1 in detail. This rule is one of those rules which isn't "made to be broken" so please get back to me if you've any questions about it.

thanks

They have not just joined. They have been posting on this thread since they created their account in june.

robindch

gctest50 wrote: »

I'd reckon a few of these really determined/vocal/noisy Anti-Choice males are upset because they think it will interfere with their "supply" of vunerable children to molest

King Mob wrote: »

It's disgusting and immoral. But par for the course on your side to be frank.

Rule (1) applies to both sides.

robindch

Mod:

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Some laws are made to be broken pal

Sean - great to have you joining us here in A+A and may I take this opportunity to wish you and yours a happy new year!

As you appear to be a new poster here, you might like to review the forum charter here before you post again in A+A as your attitude suggests you may not have had time to study rule 1 in detail. This rule is one of those rules which isn't "made to be broken" so please get back to me if you've any questions about it.

thanks

SusieBlue

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Surely she’d know what side the counselors on when she hears the advice?

And she’s free to leave the place at that point.

And she’s free to completely ignore the advice.

Exactly what right does she have that’s being violated.

I think your point that she has the right to know what type of advice she he’s going to hear before she’s heard it at which point she knows what she’s going to hear and is in fact hearing it is a bunch of hooey and something you just came up with to move the goal posts.

I mean, how can you have a right to know what your signing up to hear before you’ve heard it. It’s a silly right. In order to guarantee it, you have to violate it. We both know your fibbing.

You absolutely have a right to know if you are being advised of all options or not before you allow someone to counsel you on such a serious matter.

Your justification for this is completely selfish and arrogant, you believe they shouldn't have to disclose their stance in order to mislead more women into thinking they are speaking with an impartial organistation.
This only has the interest of the organisation at heart, and not the woman.

You are condoning and encouraging lying to vulnerable people in the midst of a crisis with the sole purpose of furthering your cause.
That's absolutely despicable.

It isn't a big or unreasonable ask to insist a counseling services discloses whether they are offering ALL options, or whether a woman may need to seek further advice on other options (aka abortion) elsewhere.

LoveBoth, indeed.

[Deleted User]

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I mean do you seriously expect that poster to back up anything they say? EOTR is famously coy when it comes to providing evidence for his ridiculous claims.

Oh no. Of course not.
I've reported him under the new section of the charter about it too, but that doesn't seem to do anything useful.

Timberrrrrrrr

King Mob wrote: »

Yup pretty much.
I'm sure he'll whine about the hairs he's splitting, but I'm done giving these guys any benefit of doubt.

He rejects the reality that most people in ireland support the legalisation of abortion and claims that many (no number given) yes voters were in fact anti choice, but actually voted yes to get rid of the 8th.
He has said "his side didn't lose."

He claims this when ever someone points to the fact his side is a smaller minority than those that voted against divorce and gay marriage. He does this because he can't deal with the likelyhood that he and his ilk are very soon to be as irrelevant, pitied and mocked as those other groups.

I mean do you seriously expect that poster to back up anything they say? EOTR is famously coy when it comes to providing evidence for his ridiculous claims.

[Deleted User]

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Seriously? :pac:

Yup pretty much.
I'm sure he'll whine about the hairs he's splitting, but I'm done giving these guys any benefit of doubt.

He rejects the reality that most people in ireland support the legalisation of abortion and claims that many (no number given) yes voters were in fact anti choice, but actually voted yes to get rid of the 8th.
He has said "his side didn't lose."

He claims this when ever someone points to the fact his side is a smaller minority than those that voted against divorce and gay marriage. He does this because he can't deal with the likelyhood that he and his ilk are very soon to be as irrelevant, pitied and mocked as those other groups.