uptherebels wrote: » That abortion causes cancer etc.
Sean.3516 wrote: » I’m not defending them saying psusedoscientific crap like that. I’m defending the right for them to do moral counseling with women seeking abortion. Their only argument should be that it is wrong.
SusieBlue wrote: » There is no reasonable excuse for them not to disclose, absolutely none.
King Mob wrote: » And you think that after lying about themselves being an impartial service, they'll be perfectly honest and unbiased about the information they provide in deference to the behavior of pretty much every single pro life group? Are you honestly that naive? Or do your expect us to be that naive?
Sean.3516 wrote: » Jayzus, ye lads are hard to get through to. So if I see a sign that reads “Unplanned Pregnancy Counselling Service”
Sean.3516 wrote: » It’s not dishonesty. It’s witholding information initially so the information can be released on your own terms to maximize the chance you can sell someone.
SusieBlue wrote: » But whether it is wrong or not is a matter of opinion, and the woman should know which side of the fence the counselors fall on before taking any advice. I too defend their right to do moral counseling, but only on women who CONSENT to be counseled from a pro-life point of view. You are putting the counseling services right to spread their message above the woman’s right to know what she’s signing herself up to hear. That’s disgusting. There is no reasonable excuse for them not to disclose, absolutely none.
Sean.3516 wrote: » Surely she’d know what side the counselors on when she hears the advice? And she’s free to leave the place at that point. And she’s free to completely ignore the advice. Exactly what right does she have that’s being violated. I think your point that she has the right to know what type of advice she he’s going to hear before she’s heard it at which point she knows what she’s going to hear and is in fact hearing it is a bunch of hooey and something you just came up with to move the goal posts. I mean, how can you have a right to know what your signing up to hear before you’ve heard it. It’s a silly right. In order to guarantee it, you have to violate it. We both know your fibbing.
Sean.3516 wrote: » For there to be a case, they would have had to deliberately misinformed her that she couldn’t have an abortion or that there would be some fictitious health complication if she did.
King Mob wrote: » But that's not what's happening. It's not just a sign. You are not being disingenuous to excuse disgusting behavior and your ridiculous attempts to defend it. No, that is dishonesty. It's deception. The honest thing to do would be to be up front. If you get less people because you are being up front, maybe there's a reason for that. Your TY company's policies in selling calendars doesn't really apply to a pro life group trying to trick pregnant women into their counseling. If you don't see why that is, then we're wasting time with you.
King Mob wrote: » Again, why would them being up front about their bias and goals result in less people coming to them?
Sean.3516 wrote: » When I did my ty minicompany I had a little stand down at the Christmas market where I sold calendars. I didn’t put price tags on anything I was selling.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Exactly that is just one of the things they do.
Sean.3516 wrote: » I agree with you that it is deception. But it isn’t dishonesty.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » That's breaking the law, too.
King Mob wrote: » Deception is dishonesty. FFS. The gymnastics you guys tie yourselves up in... It can do harm. It is not justifiable and it makes your side look even more like vultures.
Sean.3516 wrote: » Because the majority of women are inclined to think abortion is ok, and would be inclined to steer away from a pro life clinic. Why do you think?
Sean.3516 wrote: » Explain to me how it does harm?
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » So you openly admit to carrying out dishonest and illegal actions. Why should anyone listen to you on a question of 'morals'?
King Mob wrote: » Delays people from getting the services they need and want. Tricks people from their time and possibly money. Could delay people long enough from an abortion that they need. Exposes people to further deceptions from an already deceptive group of people. You are not doing a good job justifying their dishonesty.
Sean.3516 wrote: » 1. It doesn’t delay them through misinformation. Moral counseling focuses on the morality of the procedure, not the terms under which the abortion is available.
uptherebels wrote: » Not for long
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » I'm a man. I have an opinion. I don't shout it into people's faces, or tell them lies about how they're going to get a horrible disease (and DESERVE to) and what a horrible nasty person they are Restricting the flow of lies and intimidation is what we're talking about here though.
SusieBlue wrote: » Yet the pro-life gang still objected to POLDPA, the very thing that only very recently gave us the power to save women whose lives were in danger(albeit in very limited, unclear circumstances), pre the successful repeal of the 8th amendment. Go figure. Mustn’t be all that mainstream.
volchitsa wrote: » Not if she didn't know they were prolife and weren't acting in her interests but because they had their own agenda. Let's say you have a foreign woman who doesn't speak perfect English and, importantly, doesn't know that Irish free speech extends to counselling services lying about what their real agenda is. Naively, this woman imagines that she's being given reliable information. By the time she discovers otherwise, it's past 12 weeks. Why won't she be entitled to sue?
Sean.3516 wrote: » Jayzus, ye lads are hard to get through to. So if I see a sign that reads “Unplanned Pregnancy Counselling Service” The only thing I can infer from this sign is that this is a service that counsels people in unplanned pregnancies. There is no way for me to tell anything about the ethos of the centre, it’s biases, whether it’s impartial or not, what services it endorses, nothing. I would have to go in and talk to people to get this info and they could get this info if they came in and asked presumably At this point, the purpose of not advertising the centers bias has been fulfilled. The point is to at least start the conversation. The ppl inside would try to convince her abortion is wrong and she thinks it’s full of crap she can f right off and get one. Do you understand this? It’s not dishonesty. When I did my ty minicompany I had a little stand down at the Christmas market where I sold calendars. I didn’t put price tags on anything I was selling. The purpose of this is that people interested in buying would ask me how much they were and then I’d have the opportunity to start a conversation with them and work my sale pitch suave on them. If I put a price tag on them saying calendars €15 most ppl would have just moved on and not bothered with them. By starting a conversation I told them all about how they were made and how they are perpetual and can be used for any year and why they are worth €15. It’s not dishonesty. It’s witholding information initially so the information can be released on your own terms to maximize the chance you can sell someone. Hotblack Desiato wrote: » So you openly admit to carrying out dishonest and illegal actions. Why should anyone listen to you on a question of 'morals'? Sean.3516 wrote: » Some laws are made to be broken pal Sean.3516 wrote: » ........ Second of all. Nobody gives a flying crap about stupid regs about price tags. Jesus.
Sean.3516 wrote: » Jayzus, ye lads are hard to get through to. So if I see a sign that reads “Unplanned Pregnancy Counselling Service” The only thing I can infer from this sign is that this is a service that counsels people in unplanned pregnancies. There is no way for me to tell anything about the ethos of the centre, it’s biases, whether it’s impartial or not, what services it endorses, nothing. I would have to go in and talk to people to get this info and they could get this info if they came in and asked presumably At this point, the purpose of not advertising the centers bias has been fulfilled. The point is to at least start the conversation. The ppl inside would try to convince her abortion is wrong and she thinks it’s full of crap she can f right off and get one. Do you understand this? It’s not dishonesty. When I did my ty minicompany I had a little stand down at the Christmas market where I sold calendars. I didn’t put price tags on anything I was selling. The purpose of this is that people interested in buying would ask me how much they were and then I’d have the opportunity to start a conversation with them and work my sale pitch suave on them. If I put a price tag on them saying calendars €15 most ppl would have just moved on and not bothered with them. By starting a conversation I told them all about how they were made and how they are perpetual and can be used for any year and why they are worth €15. It’s not dishonesty. It’s witholding information initially so the information can be released on your own terms to maximize the chance you can sell someone.
Sean.3516 wrote: » Some laws are made to be broken pal
Sean.3516 wrote: » ........ Second of all. Nobody gives a flying crap about stupid regs about price tags. Jesus.
A Co Waterford garage owner has been fined €8,250 for failing to display prices. Thomas Farrell and Sons (Garages) Ltd was convicted on 39 counts of failing to display prices on grocery items at its stores at Tramore and Pickardstown service stations
end of the road wrote: » because she would have had plenty of other availible options to research the information. limited english wouldn't be a problem for google as google translate can do a good job of translating from english to her native language.
King Mob wrote: » Again, not sure why people would want moral lecturing from deceptive people. Not sure why you think you can pretend to have the moral high ground when you are yourself deceptive, dishonest and justifying this crap. And yea, these scumbags will use misinformation. Your side always does.
jeonahr wrote: » I’m guessing you’ve never used google translate before
end of the road wrote: » the odd individual or even group may do so but as a whole, no i don't believe that is true.
King Mob wrote: » End of the road, Stop avoiding my question. You keep insisting and implying that a majority of people don't support abortion.Back that up.
Timberrrrrrrr wrote: » Seriously? :pac:
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