Brexit Discussion Thread VI

downcow wrote: »

If you believe the economists (which I don’t) the roi is destined to even more financial difficulties than the UK after 29 March

Yeah. Well you might find one economist saying that. Most saying not as bad as the UK but still bad enough. But we knew that before it started. Funny how we were more concerned how it would affect our friends and family up north rather than our own pockets.

Imreoir2

downcow wrote: »

If you believe the economists (which I don’t) the roi is destined to even more financial difficulties than the UK after 29 March

Which economists are predicting a bigger hit to Ireland than the UK?

downcow wrote: »

If you believe the economists (which I don’t) the roi is destined to even more financial difficulties than the UK after 29 March

In fact if you want to follow many on here who feel it is simply about economics then roi should leave ASAP if UK goes

If you believe the economists (which I don’t) the roi is destined to even more financial difficulties than the UK after 29 March

Imreoir2

prawnsambo wrote: »

It still surprises me that they don't see this. It couldn't be more obvious. Are they so virulently against the GFA that they will risk everything to try and bring it to an end. Because I can see no other reason than that or rank stupidity.

It's confidence that Unionists will swallow whatever happens and continue to vote DUP regardless. The electoral track record in NI suggests that this is not stupidity but rather a solid calculation.

bilston wrote: »

the DUP's stance is an absolute economic disaster for NI and has done more to destroy the Union in a single referendum campaign than the IRA managed in 30 odd years.

It still surprises me that they don't see this. It couldn't be more obvious. Are they so virulently against the GFA that they will risk everything to try and bring it to an end. Because I can see no other reason than that or rank stupidity.

Water John

I think my resolution for the New Year is not answer rubbish, (fake facts).

bilston

lawred2 wrote: »

you are basing your 'point' on a fallacy

The votes in Scotland and NI were not close. Not even remotely close. It wasn't a 'slight variation'.

Ignore reality all you want and paint yourself an alternate one - doesn't make reality any less the reality that it is..

There was an opinion poll in May which showed that 69% of people in NI would vote Remain if given another chance.

Now that has to account for a hell of Unionists who have realised the DUP's stance is an absolute economic disaster for NI and has done more to destroy the Union in a single referendum campaign than the IRA managed in 30 odd years.

Of course Leavers will say it's one opinion poll, and fair enough, but it would have to be horrendously wrong if there hasn't been a big rise in support for Remain in NI.

RobMc59 wrote: »

As the EU pointed out to the SNP,The UK referendum vote was as one so all that is academic at the moment-if the worst comes to the worst and Britain leaves the EU and Scotland has another referendum to leave the UK that's the UKs loss but for the future-not now.

Of course the EU said that, they will not interfere in the internal workings of a member state. Those that are in the member state are free to highlight the fissures that have opened up in the 'United' Kingdom because of how Brexit has been handled by the Conservative and Unionist Party

lawred2

downcow wrote: »

Absolutely agree. Just let’s all stay in reality and accept it was pretty close everywhere incl the strongest remain areas and the strongest leave areas. My point is just that it was so close that it is irrelevant starting to break it down. The fact is the majority of uk voters voted to leave. And surprise surprise there were slight variations across the country

you are basing your 'point' on a fallacy

The votes in Scotland and NI were not close. Not even remotely close. It wasn't a 'slight variation'.

Ignore reality all you want and paint yourself an alternate one - doesn't make reality any less the reality that it is..

RobMc59

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The UK is a political and head of state union - Scotland or NI are not some region of England although that is probably how Brexiters see them

For clarity, here is how the 4 constituent parts of the UK voted

As the EU pointed out to the SNP,The UK referendum vote was as one so all that is academic at the moment-if the worst comes to the worst and Britain leaves the EU and Scotland has another referendum to leave the UK that's the UKs loss but for the future-not now.

murphaph

downcow wrote: »

Absolutely agree. Just let’s all stay in reality and accept it was pretty close everywhere incl the strongest remain areas and the strongest leave areas. My point is just that it was so close that it is irrelevant starting to break it down. The fact is the majority of uk voters voted to leave. And surprise surprise there were slight variations across the country

Factually completely incorrect. The strongest leave/remain voting constituencies did so by huge majorities respectively.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36616028

downcow wrote: »

Absolutely agree. Just let’s all stay in reality and accept it was pretty close everywhere incl the strongest remain areas and the strongest leave areas. My point is just that it was so close that it is irrelevant starting to break it down. The fact is the majority of uk voters voted to leave. And surprise surprise there were slight variations across the country

The UK is a political and head of state union - Scotland or NI are not some region of England although that is probably how Brexiters see them

For clarity, here is how the 4 constituent parts of the UK voted

Infini

downcow wrote: »

You know the percentages are not wildly different in uellow or blue. Seems there are some on here who want to give the impression that there is a massive majority in Scotland and NI who want to remain. Another spin on the facts!

Ah would you stop now that isnt a spin. Scotland voted by a landslide majority to remain. NI by a sizable 56% as well. This is why the UK wont exist by the end of the next decade: English and Brexiteer delusions and denials of factual reality and ignoring these regions will mean Scotland will be likely independent and Ireland Reunified with just a rump state of Little England.

Pride before the fall, Pride before the fall....

Honestly like I said before should they crash out the UK will literally become a Meme Country for being a prime example in ignorant stupidity and political incompetence.

downcow wrote: »

No. It’s hard to read them all

But you felt fully qualified to lecture him on what he was saying?

prawnsambo wrote: »

Did you actually read the post he replied to? Because that was the spin you're looking for.

No. It’s hard to read them all

downcow wrote: »

You know the percentages are not wildly different in uellow or blue. Seems there are some on here who want to give the impression that there is a massive majority in Scotland and NI who want to remain. Another spin on the facts!

Did you actually read the post he replied to? Because that was the spin you're looking for.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The other guy stated 'Most SNP seats voted leave'... I corrected him with the use of an easy to follow map

The map shows which constituency had the majority leave (in blue) and the majority remain (in yellow)

It is an indisputable fact that the majority of those that voted in NI and in Scotland voted to remain in the EU - I can post nothing to change that fact

Absolutely agree. Just let’s all stay in reality and accept it was pretty close everywhere incl the strongest remain areas and the strongest leave areas. My point is just that it was so close that it is irrelevant starting to break it down. The fact is the majority of uk voters voted to leave. And surprise surprise there were slight variations across the country

road_high

downcow wrote: »

You know the percentages are not wildly different in uellow or blue. Seems there are some on here who want to give the impression that there is a massive majority in Scotland and NI who want to remain. Another spin on the facts!

62% votes remain in Scotland- should be 75% to be legitimate in your eyes? Whereas a 52% leave is totally legitimate and an afront to democracy if not implemented ( whatever that actually means)

downcow wrote: »

You know the percentages are not wildly different in uellow or blue. Seems there are some on here who want to give the impression that there is a massive majority in Scotland and NI who want to remain. Another spin on the facts!

The other guy stated 'Most SNP seats voted leave'... I corrected him with the use of an easy to follow map

The map shows which constituency had the majority leave (in blue) and the majority remain (in yellow)

It is an indisputable fact that the majority of those that voted in NI and in Scotland voted to remain in the EU - I can post nothing to change that fact

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Have a look at the map below and can you guess which colour is Remain and which is Leave?

free online image hosting

Do you know where Scotland is?

You know the percentages are not wildly different in uellow or blue. Seems there are some on here who want to give the impression that there is a massive majority in Scotland and NI who want to remain. Another spin on the facts!

McGiver

Folkstonian wrote:

Granted, as an outside observer your input is irrelevant, but itâ€™s really quite tiresome to hear the pro-EU camp on the one hand accuse leave voters of being reborn Victorian Imperialists, whilst anti-EU voters suspect remainers of all looking to make Britain a mere subservient territory of a fully federalised EU.

Not leave voters - but some of the English political class certainly.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Have a look at the map below and can you guess which colour is Remain and which is Leave?

free online image hosting

Do you know where Scotland is?

murphaph

In hindsight Britain will be seen to have been the first victim to be taken in by Russian activities.

Seth Brundle

cryptocurrency wrote: »

sigh,

the wonderful thing about these message boards is that posts like this where they are so sure about themselves are there to be revisited.

Your whole world is about to be shattered. It will happen, it will be good and the EU is toast. We can revisit this, Sierra Nevada All Day IPA is calling.

Thought you had left (Maybe like Brexit, you don't know what way you want to leave!)...

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Right, I'm off out now.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I find it sad that you see anyone who disagrees with you, hates the EU and has a clear opinion as being on a wind-up. We haven't long left until we find out again that I am right.

I know people in the UK who are Brexiteers and are open to listening to facts and will take them on board.
You and most of the other Brexiteers on here do not listen to facts and tend to throw a comment our there without staying to discuss it. You are happy to deal in mistruths and truth-twisting to suit whatever agenda it is that you have.
Good luck with that: as Lincoln said "you can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

McGiver

listermint wrote:

I have a good friend who has a form of Asperger's and spends their entire day promoting anti EU propaganda and pro russian information he holds Putin up as a strong man. Its these types of people that third party actors target .

Wanted to say that this how current Russian disinformation campaign works (trumpist/populist tactics are very similar) - basically trying to convince that everyone is lying and there's no truth.
This was in detail described by intelligence agencies of central and Eastern European EU countries, for example Security Information Service of the Czech Republic report from 2015.

In 2015, Russian information operations in the Czech Republic focused especially on:
- weakening the strength of Czech media (covert infiltration of Czech media and the Internet, massive production of Russian propaganda and disinformation controlled by the state);
- strengthening the information resistance of the Russian audience (prefabricated disinformation from Czech sources for the Russian audience);
- exerting influence on the perceptions and thoughts of the Czech audience, weakening societyâ€™s will for resistance or confrontation (information and disinformation overload of the audience, relativization of truth and objectivity, promoting the motto â€œeveryone is lyingâ€);
- creating or promoting inter-societal and inter-political tensions in the Czech Republic (foundation of puppet organizations, covert and open support of populist or
extremist subjects);
- disrupting the coherence and readiness of NATO and the EU (attempts to disrupt Czech-Polish relations, disinformation and alarming rumors defaming the US and NATO, disinformation creating a virtual threat of a war with Russia);
- damaging the reputation of Ukraine and isolating the country internationally (involving Czech citizens and organizations in influence operations covertly led in
Ukraine or against it by Russia).

The above-mentioned activities pose a threat to the Czech Republic, EU and NATO not only in relation to the Ukrainian and Syrian conflicts. The infrastructure created for achieving these goals will not disappear with the end of the two conflicts. It can be used to destabilize or manipulate Czech society or political environment at any time, if Russia wishes to do so.