An Ciarraioch wrote: » TBF Greece, France, Holland, Italy and others do regularly debate the various weaknesses of the EU, but acknowledge that reform only comes about through collective effort, and can't be attempted at a national level.
prawnsambo wrote: » No, they didn't. There's $100 million alone that went through the NRA. Still not accounted for. Or the £8 million that Arron Banks filtered into Leave.eu which still doesn't match up to its supposed source. And that's just for starters. Nobody knows how much Cambridge Analytica spent in man hours on both campaigns, because they are gone. But the Canadians are still digging and of course Mueller. You haven't a clue mate.
Strazdas wrote: » How come the UK is the only member state having this furious debate about the numerous failings of the EU? Go to any of the other 27 countries and virtually nobody is even discussing the EU, certainly not to the point where it is dominating their politics. It suggests to the Brexiteers and the British press are merely using the EU as a scapegoat for all their own domestic problems.
cryptocurrency wrote: » The EU doesn't stand for openness at all in economic terms and many of your ideas for consumer protection is just corporate communism by stealth by closing barriers to entry for many industries for most of the subjects of the EU. If the EU is so good for workers why is it that the average EU subjects life is not improving like say these from Asia where real markets are happening.
cryptocurrency wrote: » You don't think they are quite protectionist? The Americans seem to think so esp when trying to sell them agri products.
cryptocurrency wrote: » Didn't they say the Russians spent $80k on Facebook and won the presidency, $80k to win the presidency..that easy. Think they said $40k won the Brexit vote despite international interference from Obama saying about being bottom of the Q, the government spending £10 million posting every single home in the nation that they should vote to remain and a coordinated media campaign warning of the EU cutting off medical supplies, cheese, water, planes, more cheese, the internet, Xfactor and Stella Artois. Yeah sure Russia is all over it, they are that good that if they pumped in another $278 into Peter Casey he'd now be president.
prawnsambo wrote: » This is just so much nonsense. You have said exactly zero here. Just dogma and propaganda. Tell me of this socialist/communist stuff that the EU 'creeps' into deals. Are you actually expecting me to take this stuff seriously?
prawnsambo wrote: » If you think the Russians aren't involved in trying to undermine elections in the world, you have your head deeply buried in the sand. It's not even circumstantial evidence now, there is direct evidence piling up. They're not even subtle about it. The EU is one of Putin's biggest bogeymen. Sanctions, legislation and action on offshore accounts and money laundering. He's finding it harder and harder to protect his ill-gotten gains.
cryptocurrency wrote: » The EU is looking inward and becoming increasingly socialist and totalitarian with very poor growth and huge youth unemployment while the eastern nation's boom. A global nation like the UK just doesn't want to sit on a sinking ship while there is serious money to be made in the rest of the world. People cite all these deals the EU has here and there but never go into the detail of these deals. The UK is looking for real free trade, real free markets without the socialist/communist characteristics that the EU like to creep into theirs.
cryptocurrency wrote: » The backed following through with a clear referendum result. There is zero trust of most remainers now, most clearly despise democracy. I noticed today that Leo is warning of Russian interference in the upcoming European Parliment Elections when everyone knows in advance that the eurosceptic movements everywhere will see huge gains. This is designed to discredit the results in advance so expect the likes of Tusk, Junker, Vohs, Barnier, Blair, Campbell all really ramp up the Russian claims in the coming months. They will probably use this to ensure the masses voices are trampled further for future elections. The EU is toast if they let the people of Europe have a real voice on it. I'm fairly certain the EU is toast anyway and the horse has well and truly bolted.
cryptocurrency wrote: » People cite all these deals the EU has here and there but never go into the detail of these deals. The UK is looking for real free trade, real free markets without the socialist/communist characteristics that the EU like to creep into theirs.
Imreoir2 wrote: » I think that much should be obvious. The EU stands for openness, human rights, consumer protection and a rules based order. It is surrounded by other powers that have come to stand for isolationism, a race to the bottom on regulation and workers rights and a might is right approach to the international order.
prawnsambo wrote: » Please explain this. Sounds great and all, but what way is the world moving that the EU is counter to.
megaten wrote: » Can you prove this in any way.
Folkstonian wrote: » I know lots of people who voted to leave, for lots of different reasons. None of which were ‘frustration at the EU stealing the British Empire’s limelight’.
cryptocurrency wrote: » I wholeheartedly disagree. The Brexiteers are clearly Democrats who believe in the will of the people and that the EU is moving the exact opposite way to the rest of the world. The UK has always been more global in its outlook and will prosper post a no deal brexit. The biggest fear in the EU is an independent and prosperous UK. The current deal with the backstop is designed to make the UK free and competitive on their doorstep.
Nody wrote: » And that's the flaw in your thinking imo; even the most stout Remainers have bent under the whip multiple times due to promises that remained unfulfilled. The problem is not having enough people being Pro Brexit; it's getting enough people to defy the whip in both parties AND unite in a common cause which they have not done. They did not do it for the Brexit yes/no vote, they did not do it on the vote if parliament would have a say or not and I don't see them all suddenly getting a spine and deciding to change their behavior this time. They will follow the whip because in the end they are craven people who care more about the fact they will have the party behind them in the next election than how their voters will fare from it all; esp. once they can blame someone else (Tories, bullies in EU etc.) and their career is hence what they care for accordingly.
downcow wrote: » Tell me what you guys think people of UK should do. They have had the biggest vote in history which said they want to leave the Eu. Are you guys really suggesting that is ignored?
cryptocurrency wrote: » The Brexiteers are clearly Democrats who believe in the will of the people
Peter Flynt wrote: » Brexit was always primarily about the break up of the European Union, and not Britain's exit from the EU. The brexiteers HATE the EU because they see it as a power stealing the limelight from their British Empire (which still exists in their minds. . . some of them call it the 'Anglosphere'). It was never meant to be like this. . . They won the war (and only they, no one else was involved). As Michael Heseltine stated. . . You cannot reason with these people. Never could. At some point the adults in the room have to take control.
cryptocurrency wrote: » I wholeheartedly disagree. The Brexiteers are clearly Democrats who believe in the will of the people . . .
