Strazdas wrote: » I can't see any other country leaving in the near future. Even the European far right have no particular problem with EU membership. On the specific issue of EU membership, I would class the Brexiteers as 'extreme right' : they believe that the UK cannot belong to any form of single market or customs union, never mind political union.
Infini wrote: » Wouldn't call it nonsense. Older people will sometimes tend to look at things through the nostalgia glasses and think oh things were better back then etc. It's a natural reaction to the changing times. Also if your gonna use the remoaner argument I can use the Bullshíteer responce and that oh so truthful bus right at the top of the list of their lies and deceptions and thats just the beginning of it. Lets not forget all the statements they made then contradicted themselves down the road even just a few weeks later. Brexit is a mistake because all the arguments made for it have been proven hollow and quite a few of the things that have happened have come to pass though not all because at the end of the day predictions are not 100% guaranteed. That being said quite a few of these things have happened before the UK has even hit their arse on the door on the way out! As for your whole argument seriously your obviously posting in a way that "oh its all the vested interest groups/establisment lying" argument. Lets be clear Sterling in the 2 years since Brexit has dropped drastically its nearly 33% down from its height at one point. On top of that there's been a halt to investment well documented in this and previous threads and thing will get worse because when people don't know what happens their first reaction regardless of their line of business is to hold on everything until things become clear because blind decisions cost them time and money when they dont pan out. And dont get me started on the likes of the Daily Fail and co and their deliberately distored tabloid BS. Lets be clear Brexit is a policy with absolutely NO benefit and all Drawbacks because some of those in England cannot share power with others and when they dont get their own way they resort to blaming everyone else and not their own faults. It will end badly.
Tell me how wrote: » They are perfectly fine with a Union, as long as everyone accepts that the UK is at the head of it (British Empire/Commonwealth for instance). If the buildings of the EU parliament were in London, there would be no Brexit.
downcow wrote: » I don’t have the time or the energy to respond to all that. Problem is you seem to think remain told truth and leave told lies. The fact is they both equally stretched the truth.
Folkstonian wrote: » Very sweeping and unsubstantiated. I don’t think there are many people in the U.K. looking to leave NATO, for instance, other than the oddball Trotskyists of Momentum. Certainly not much appetite among the wider public.
EdgeCase wrote: » I would suspect the most likely outcome is they end up as a poorer state that is left trying to suck up to superpowers. The USA isn't what it used to be and may have huge internal problems to deal with after Trump. I can't see them really being that focused on what the UK is doing and it's likely China will attempt to just use its financial power to control as much as possible in the UK. I would potentially see a much weaker Britain in a decade's time, probably dancing to Beijing's tune.
Folkstonian wrote: » Very sweeping and unsubstantiated. I don’t think there are many people in the U.K. looking to leave NATO, for instance, other than the oddball Trotskyists of Momentum.Certainly not much appetite among the wider public.
McGiver wrote: » By the way, this observation has been repeatedly made by several continental European authors, seems to be the overall impression of the Irish people and I have read quite a few English authors concluding the same. Do you think it's a coincidence?
EdgeCase wrote: » I'm actually more concerned that this could trigger a cascade of problems in the UK itself, leading to a big unstable mess sitting off the coast of continental Europe and attached to Ireland. The UK could go a whole lot of different ways after Brexit but I don't honestly believe that the British public are diehard libertarians, who want their social democracy dismantled and replaced by some version of Victorian ultra capitalism of the type being proposed by some of the Tories. That's where the Tories will meet their comeuppance as they've basically sold lies about protectionism and increased public expenditure and are intent on delivering fairly brutal reforms that remove all of the safety nets. How the British go on to interact with Europe and the world generally remains to be seen. If they think they can rebuild the empire or something equivalent they are in for a very unpleasant shock as the world has moved on and they're at best a mid sized fading old power that's increasingly irrelevant. I would suspect the most likely outcome is they end up as a poorer state that is left trying to suck up to superpowers. The USA isn't what it used to be and may have huge internal problems to deal with after Trump. I can't see them really being that focused on what the UK is doing and it's likely China will attempt to just use its financial power to control as much as possible in the UK. I would potentially see a much weaker Britain in a decade's time, probably dancing to Beijing's tune.
downcow wrote: » Problem is you seem to think remain told truth and leave told lies. The fact is they both equally stretched the truth.
downcow wrote: » My understanding is that the bus said there would be £350m available to health service that is currently going to Eu this is factually correct (or as was pointed out this week it was under estimated actually over 400) this is the money that won’t go to Eu so our elect reps in UK can decide to do with it what the wish incl health service.
downcow wrote: » I don’t have the time or the energy to respond to all that. Problem is you seem to think remain told truth and leave told lies. The fact is they both equally stretched the truth. Take your first point about the bus. My understanding is that the bus said there would be £350m available to health service that is currently going to Eu this is factually correct (or as was pointed out this week it was under estimated actually over 400) this is the money that won’t go to Eu so our elect reps in UK can decide to do with it what the wish incl health service. As for the remain predictions. We were told by great and good that the economy would crash the day after the referendum if we voted out (not after we left - the day after the vote). This patently did not happen, indeed the is all time record high employment in UK today. So while this nonsense continues I think we are headed out fast as people can see the spin of the remainders. And I say this as someone who didn’t vote because I was neutral. I am growing more of a brexiteers everyday
Folkstonian wrote: » Personally, I’ve always been in the group labelled unenthusiastic remainers. I think close economic partnership with the continent is vital but have little desire in being part of a political union. I know lots of people at home, mostly well educated, well off, and relatively young who would be broadly in the same category.
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » The UK economy is down 2.5% relative to everyone else since the referendum. And the UK can hit the reset button anytime so Brexit might not even happen. HM Revenue & Customs are down £500m a week. So there is no more money for the NHS (the £20Bn doesn't even cover inflation) Total loss is more than the EU Divorce Bill Check property values from before the referendum Now do the same in Euro, almost every home owner in the UK is poorer.The Bus numbers ignore the money coming back from the EU in the rebate, farming, development grants, contract for spacecraft and such that mean that the UK gets back most of the EU money directly or indirectly.
Leroy42 wrote: » The main problem, and why the polls haven't moved more than marginally, is that the entire UK, including the media and politicians, still operate under the notion that nothing is going to change. Sure there may be checks at the border but a few new boats will sort that out. And a few minutes extra in the queue is no biggie. They firmly believe, lead by the likes of IDS etc, that a deal will be done at the last minute so nothing will change. (Except all the things they don't like of course, they never seem to be able to explain this contradiction.
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » The Bus numbers ignore the money coming back from the EU in the rebate, farming, development grants, contract for spacecraft and such that mean that the UK gets back most of the EU money directly or indirectly.
lawred2 wrote: » and that was even pointed out and admitted during the campaign If I remember correctly the net figure was about £210m per week... So I'm not sure who exactly was revising figures upwards to £400m per week recently..
An Ciarraioch wrote: » Jacob Rees-Mogg is travelling to the North to attend a DUP fundraising dinner:https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/jacob-rees-mogg-turns-down-tories-to-fundraise-for-dup-1-8753578
McGiver wrote: » Gross £350m - rebate £100m - EU investments in the UK £90mNet £160m I.e. BoJo liar liar pants on fire, in reality it's less than a half of that figure in net. Apart from the fact that the figure is totally meaningless when not put into a broader context e.g. % of UK's budget and what UK gets back for it.
Donald Trump's offer of a "quick, massive, bilateral trade deal" will not be possible if Theresa May's EU withdrawal agreement is approved, the US ambassador to the UK has warned. President Trump had previously said her Brexit proposal sounded like a "great deal for the EU".
tuxy wrote: » Have they spent the £1 billion the tories promised then?
road_high wrote: » Even if the North were to get an extra billion in funding it’s still a pitiful amount compared to what it needs. Roads wise it needs tens of billions to have a network comparable to the south or even their beloved UK. Our government speaks in billions of funding for this that and the other all the time. It’s just symbolic of what a pathetic little begging bowl NI is now
EdgeCase wrote: » He basically put vaguely estimated costs on the side of a bus and presented none of the benefits. I mean I don't like paying for petrol but my car doesn't run without it. If you only presented the fact that petrol costs me €40 a week, I would probably stop buying it, if I didn't understand it's what makes my car go!
