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Cork City Bus Service

Reputable Rog

It seems to me that the City Bus Service has descended beyond woeful.
I have arrived at Kent on numerous occasions in the past few months to find no bus present despite being timetabled.
Yesterday no 208 bus showed up in Patrick Street for over an hour, i eventually had to get the 205 which was 40 minutes late.
It seemed the buses only showing up were for Black Ash or Mahon Point.
In the meantime there was a fleet of out of service buses trundling down Pana.
My return journey last night, waited 40 minutes for the 208 in Bishopstown and it terminated on Pana.
Complete joke.

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[Deleted User]

namloc1980 wrote: »

Dublin buses are actually old and are filthy. No idea how you were so "shocked".

That's my experience. If you had a different one, then lucky you. Dublin buses are on average 1 year older than Bus Eireann City fleet so very little difference. My point was about how they are maintained and cleaned.

I use the number 8 going into town and back regularly and while most of the buses are new enough, they are dirty and don't look like they are maintained at all, especially the upper decks. Some are just filthy, and I regularly remark on it.

In 13 years of living and working in Dublin I never experienced that even on the routes that went into the tougher parts of the city.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

That's my experience. If you had a different one, then lucky you. Dublin buses are on average 1 year older than Bus Eireann City fleet so very little difference. My point was about how they are maintained and cleaned.

I use the number 8 going into town and back regularly and while most of the buses are new enough, they are dirty and don't look like they are maintained at all, especially the upper decks. Some are just filthy, and I regularly remark on it.

In 13 years of living and working in Dublin I never experienced that even on the routes that went into the tougher parts of the city.

Work in Dublin regularly and use the bus. They are filthy with added junkies shooting up - have seen this more than once. Certainly the Cork buses aren't "shockingly" worse. There's plenty enough to criticise the bus service in Cork about without resorting to hyperbole.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

We obviously need the Taoiseach to say a sentence or two about the other bus routes to get them improved.... Like he did with the 220. Laughable really.

" The issue was raised in the Dáil recently by Cork North West TD Aindrias Moynihan. In response, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said he was personally aware of the difficulties with the service.
“As it happens, my sister’s childminder, who is attending UCC, uses it regularly. I am advised that it is slow and, as a consequence of traffic, often gets stuck.”

The Taoiseach added: "It will be significantly improved and made more frequent in the next several weeks.”"

http://admin-www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Bus-Eireann-plans-to-double-frequency-220-Ballincollig-to-Carrigaline-from-December-3468b84a-8986-41d2-a561-0928fda02bea-ds

If only we were Leo's sister's childminder....

EdgeCase

namloc1980 wrote: »

Dublin buses are actually old and are filthy. No idea how you were so "shocked".

They're not old or filthy.

Look let's not get this into a Dublin Vs Cork thing. The state of Cork's busses is no reflection on Cork. It's a reflection on a dysfunctional system run by a national body.

[Deleted User]

namloc1980 wrote: »

Work in Dublin regularly and use the bus. They are filthy with added junkies shooting up - have seen this more than once. Certainly the Cork buses aren't "shockingly" worse. There's plenty enough to criticise the bus service in Cork about without resorting to hyperbole.

Haha, and I'm the one resorting to hyperbole! I could have predicted that response. Dublin, junkies, filthy etc etc...

I'm not going to get into a row with a stranger on the internet about the difference between Cork and Dublin buses. I just gave my opinion based on years of experience of using both services.

The fact that you have seen addicts taking drugs on board has nothing to do with the point being discussed. There is no need to take offence just because I made a point you don't agree with. As the above poster said, let's not make it a Cork v Dublin thing and just because I point out we have a crap bus service is not a criticism of the city or the people. And for the record, I am a proud Corkman.

EdgeCase

Actually, Cork and Dublin have very similar problems when it comes to getting urban issues like transportation being taken seriously and actually they could do with having some degree of proper autonomous urban / metropolitan government, similar to the levels of autonomy cities have in most of Europe and the US and elsewhere. We've far too much micromanagement of urban areas by central government.

I don't think Cork and Dublin commentators sniping at each other makes any sense at all. The handful of cities that we have in Ireland are very oddly governed and actually face a lot very poor policy making and even undermining by central government and national agencies all the time.

It's nuts that a city like Cork has such inadequate transit and in Dublin the government is patting itself on the back for having 2 tram lines and having electrified a victorian train line in 1984, which still has level crossings in the middle of a city.

At this stage Cork should probably have a couple of modern tramways and Dublin should have a Metro / hybrid metro/tram system with a line into every major suburb.

We've grossly underinvested in public transport in Ireland and we will pay for it dearly in CO2 fines.

Criticism of the bus network in Cork is a criticism of CIE, Transport for Ireland and those setting policy at Government level, not of Cork City itself.

Dublin and Cork, rather bizarrely, have absolutely zero input into their own cities' public transport systems. It's all done above their head at national level.

EnzoScifo

Cork Urban Network Service Enhancements

Bus Éireann in conjunction with the National Transport Authority (NTA) are pleased to announce the introduction of significant service enhancements to certain routes on the Cork Urban Network on Sunday, 13 January 2019. These enhancements will see service frequency double on Route 220 with minor changes to other routes

The changes to the individual routes are as follows:

Route 220: Ballincollig – City Centre – Carragaline - Crosshaven

The timetable on this route will be significantly enhanced with core frequency being doubled throughout the day. The main service enhancements are as follows:

The route will now operate 24hrs per day.
Core weekday frequency will be doubled from every 30mins to every 15mins from 6am until midnight.
30min/60min frequency will operate between midnight and 6am
Core weekend frequency will increase to every 15mins from 9am until midnight
All services will now operate to Grange Manor (Ballincollig)
All services will now serve the Carragaline Primary Care Centre
Every second service will now operate to Crosshaven

Route 220x: Fountainstown – Crosshaven - Carragaline – City Centre – Ballincollig

The timetable on this route will continue to operate as at present however departure times from certain stops have been revised to reflect actual journey times.

Route 216: Cork University Hospital – City Centre – Mount Oval

The timetable on this route will remain as at present however departure times from certain stops have been revised to reflect actual journey times.

Route 223: City Centre – Monkstown – Ringaskiddy - Haulbowline

The timetable on this route will remain as at present however departure times from certain stops have been revised to reflect actual journey times.

Route 223x: City Centre – Douglas – Ringaskiddy - Haulbowline

The current weekday 06:15 & 07:05 (Route 223) services from the City Centre will now operate as Route 223x services.

The current weekday 19:10 (Route 223) service from Ringaskiddy to the city centre will now operate as a Route 223x service.

Fares – Best value fares are available using your Leapcard. Save up to 30% on the price of a Single Ticket or use a zonal product for best value multi journey fares.

If you have any feedback in relation to the revised service offering please forward your comments to customercare@buseireann.ie

Bus Éireann would like to thank our customers for their continued support of the public transport services on the Cork Urban Network and we look forward to welcoming you on board our improved service in the near future.

The service changes/enhancements on Route’s 216, 220, 220x, 223 & 223x will be introduced on Sunday, 13 January 2019 and have been approved by the National Transport Authority.

http://www.buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=3267&month=Dec

mean gene

EnzoScifo wrote: »

http://www.buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=3267&month=Dec

Ballincollig to crosshaven 3am on a Wed morning love to see how manys on that:pac:

questionmark?

mean gene wrote: »

Ballincollig to crosshaven 3am on a Wed morning love to see how manys on that:pac:

Week days will be quite enough intially but I can see it getting great usage Thursday, Friday and Saturdays. Taxi drivers won't be happy with lose of business but €1:89 for the bus versus €20+ for a taxi to Ballincollig is a a great option to have.

Acosta

horgan_p wrote: »

Nope, thats ye lot until next October.

Absolute s**te service from BE not running buses later than 11pm on weekends.
Used those buses over Christmas and they were always busy and with zero hassle. If anything there was a good vibe on the buses.

And there's a bus to and from the airport every night that leaves there at half 12, usually empty, as the last flight is in at 11.15.

It's ridiculous. All the time we hear this crowd have no money. The night buses every weekend would be a huge earner for them if done properly.

I'm all for pedestrianising the city as much as possible and putting in more cycling infrastructure, but the Patricks St ban to me seems like putting the cart before the horse. BE is and has always been as long as I can remember totally and utterly unreliable. They are the problem. I'm sure a massive chunk of people struggling to get out and through town every day, or others sitting in the car park that is the otherwise known as the N40 to the tunnel would prefer to be sitting on bus, spending a lot less every day and getting home twice as quickly.

I don't work in town anymore but the last few years that I did I had long given up on the bus. The sheer frustration of the whole experience was just a crap way to start or finish a day of work. It put me in bad humour. You could wait an hour for a bus and then have some entitled dickhead of a bus driver bark at you like he's the one been put out..

Actually on that, I must say that in recent times I've used the bus, the drivers do by and large seem to me a lot friendlier these days.

But anyway, It just wasn't worth the hassle. I started cycling in the end, or even walked. I remember routinely walking most of the 3 miles back to the house only to be passed by a bus inside the last half a mile home.

Frostybrew

Acosta wrote: »

And there's a bus to and from the airport every night that leaves there at half 12, usually empty, as the last flight is in at 11.15.

It's ridiculous. All the time we hear this crowd have no money. The night buses every weekend would be a huge earner for them if done properly.

I'm all for pedestrianising the city as much as possible and putting in more cycling infrastructure, but the Patricks St ban to me seems like putting the cart before the horse. BE is and has always been as long as I can remember totally and utterly unreliable. They are the problem. I'm sure a massive chunk of people struggling to get out and through town every day, or others sitting in the car park that is the otherwise known as the N40 to the tunnel would prefer to be sitting on bus, spending a lot less every day and getting home twice as quickly.

I don't work in town anymore but the last few years that I did I had long given up on the bus. The sheer frustration of the whole experience was just a crap way to start or finish a day of work. It put me in bad humour. You could wait an hour for a bus and then have some entitled dickhead of a bus driver bark at you like he's the one been put out..

Actually on that, I must say that in recent times I've used the bus, the drivers do by and large seem to me a lot friendlier these days.

But anyway, It just wasn't worth the hassle. I started cycling in the end, or even walked. I remember routinely walking most of the 3 miles back to the house only to be passed by a bus inside the last half a mile home.

Would have to strongly disagree with this point. The very reason Bus Eireann City services are so unreliable is directly due to the lack of these type of initiatives, such as the introduction of bus lanes on Patrick street. There's not much point in running frequent services if the allocation of road space to public transport is so low that it makes it impossible to keep to any type of schedule.

At the moment road, in the Cork urban area, road use allocation is about 98% in favour of the motor car with only about 2% designated public transport priority. This needs to change for any improvement.

There are other very important factors too, but the above is a major stumbling block.

EdgeCase

They could do with the removal of the delays on board too. Using Leap card with flat price ticketing and all door opening services would make a huge difference to lag times.

I've often been stuck behind a bus on the Douglas Road as a queue of people all get on seemingly paying with five euro notes and expecting change.

It's like they seem to not distinguish between the business needs of a city bus service and a bus serving remote communities in the west of Ireland where cash payment might make sense and dwell time isn't a big deal.

mikeym

Im surprised theres enough bus drivers to do the 24 hour service every day.

Acosta

Frostybrew wrote: »

Would have to strongly disagree with this point. The very reason Bus Eireann City services are so unreliable is directly due to the lack of these type of initiatives, such as the introduction of bus lanes on Patrick street. There's not much point in running frequent services if the allocation of road space to public transport is so low that it makes it impossible to keep to any type of schedule.

At the moment road, in the Cork urban area, road use allocation is about 98% in favour of the motor car with only about 2% designated public transport priority. This needs to change for any improvement.

There are other very important factors too, but the above is a major stumbling block.

Buses are also very unreliable off peak, not just during peak time for traffic. Is closing Patricks St for a few hours every day seriously making much of a difference to buses being on time or not? Are they not getting held up elsewhere now in places that have much more traffic because of the ban?
To me it just seems like a token gesture from a council that don't seem to have a plan.

I totally agree that the infrastructure around Cork needs to be improved for buses in general but we don't do joined up thinking in our public service.

I would think when the flyover at the Dunkettle interchange is built this will hopefully make a big difference to traffic in town during peak time.

Proper bike only routes from the suburbs into town would be great too.

Nigel Fairservice

EdgeCase wrote: »

They could do with the removal of the delays on board too. Using Leap card with flat price ticketing and all door opening services would make a huge difference to lag times.

I've often been stuck behind a bus on the Douglas Road as a queue of people all get on seemingly paying with five euro notes and expecting change.

It's like they seem to not distinguish between the business needs of a city bus service and a bus serving remote communities in the west of Ireland where cash payment might make sense and dwell time isn't a big deal.

On dwell times, I'd love to see Leap card readers installed just to the the right of the driver like there is on Dublin Bus services. It would slightly reduce loading times.

Frostybrew

Acosta wrote: »

Buses are also very unreliable off peak, not just during peak time for traffic. Is closing Patricks St for a few hours every day seriously making much of a difference to buses being on time or not? Are they not getting held up elsewhere now in places that have much more traffic because of the ban?
To me it just seems like a token gesture from a council that don't seem to have a plan.

I totally agree that the infrastructure around Cork needs to be improved for buses in general but we don't do joined up thinking in our public service.

I would think when the flyover at the Dunkettle interchange is built this will hopefully make a big difference to traffic in town during peak time.

Proper bike only routes from the suburbs into town would be great too.

It's making a huge difference. Journey time reductions of up to 30% were publicised IIRC. Opening up Patrick street is far more than a token gesture from the city council. It's an initiative they've been trying to put in place since the late seventies. Indeed much of the infrastructural improvements that were constructed in the eighties and nineties (opera house bridge, michael collins, and dev bridges, quay widening, south link etc.) were designed to facilitate a bus only Patrick street.

The reason it's taken forty years is down to many factors including powerful vested interests (the motor lobby, media interests, some city centre traders), the absence of a Cork public transport authority; and lack of awareness of urban and transport planning among the general population, a situation which has been readily exploited by the above interests.

The lack of joined up thinking is also an important factor as Cork badly needs a dedicated public transit entity. One which has the power to put in place a cohesive network of transport alternatives, and the ability and authority to make the infrastructural changes that will make them viable.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Frostybrew wrote: »

It's making a huge difference. Journey time reductions of up to 30% were publicised IIRC.

No they weren't. They just stated it, never released any figures.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

No they weren't. They just stated it, never released any figures.

I would love some figures also from BE or the NTA of buses that arrived on time at each stop.

Because I don't buy that 80+ percent of customers are satisfied with BE Cork services.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I would love some figures also from BE or the NTA of buses that arrived on time at each stop.

Because I don't buy that 80+ percent of customers are satisfied with BE Cork services.

Not a chance the'd have true figures that they could release. The 30% figure was released by City Hall, when it should be BE recording their own times.
All I ever wanted when taking the bus was for it to be reliable and timely. Buses not turning up, or quite late, even from the start of Curaheen (when they passed 15mins earlier). Vested interests turned people towards using cars.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Why don't the NTA allow other companies to bid to take over Cork Bus services, like GoAhead did in Dublin? They seem to just give it to Bus Eireann everytime they're up for renewal, which I thought went against EU competition laws.

namloc1980

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Why don't the NTA allow other companies to bid to take over Cork Bus services, like GoAhead did in Dublin? They seem it just give it to Bus Eireann everytime they're up for renewal, which I thought went against EU competition laws.

Not true. It's always open but BE were the only company to make an application the last time in 2014. Up for renewal in 2019 so anyone can apply for it including GoAhead if they are interested or anyone for that matter.

Frostybrew

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not a chance the'd have true figures that they could release. The 30% figure was released by City Hall, when it should be BE recording their own times.
All I ever wanted when taking the bus was for it to be reliable and timely. Buses not turning up, or quite late, even from the start of Curaheen (when they passed 15mins earlier). Vested interests turned people towards using cars.

Moving forward the best way to ensure greater reliability for both existing and future bus services is to extend initiatives like the bus lanes on Patrick Street so buses can make solid progress throughout the city. This would mean extending the hours on Patrick Street to include early morning rush hour. Grand Parade and the South Mall also need to be looked at.

A fantastic addition would be converting one of the three lanes from Colosseum corner to Clontarf Bridge to a 24 hour bus only lane, and the extension of the in bound Penrose Quay bus lane from the railway station to Brian Boru bridge. This one short stretch can add anywhere from 10 to 30 mins onto services from the North and East of the city.

A prime example of this situation is the 221 service serving the Glanmire and Tivoli areas. The 221 was given a major overhaul in 2014. A new 30 minute frequency was put in place of the old timetable which could only be described as a disgrace. The improved service has led to an explosion in bus usage in these areas, but the reliability of the service is not as good as it could be. A common scenario is the 221 taking 10 minutes to get from Glanmire/Riverstown to Michael Collins bridge (roughly 7 kilometres). It can then take as similar amount time or longer to complete the short trip to the bus station (500metres at most), a journey which should take a maximum of 2 minutes with suitable bus priority.

These 8 lost minutes can have a huge affect on the service through out the day as the outbound service is now behind and has a further knock on effect throughout the day. Thus a vastly improved and successful service is tainted and now appears much less attractive to potential users due to reliability issues.

The above is a situation that occurs not just with the 221 but with all services.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not true. It's always open but BE were the only company to make an application the last time in 2014. Up for renewal in 2019 so anyone can apply for it including GoAhead if they are interested or anyone for that matter.

Thanks for the correction. Maybe we might see another company apply.

namloc1980

Waterford has got new low emission NTA branded buses plus the bus numbers have been rebranded from 601-605 to W1-W5.

Cork Trucker

namloc1980 wrote: »

Waterford has got new low emission NTA branded buses plus the bus numbers have been rebranded from 601-605 to W1-W5.

The rebranding has caused some confusion i ehar, the old 602 is now W3 while the old 603 is W2.

In time i expect that both Dublin Bus & Bus Eireann will adopt that livery and it will be a uniform brand across the 26 counties. It's similar to Dublin Bus colour wise already anyway.

namloc1980

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The rebranding has caused some confusion i ehar, the old 602 is now W3 while the old 603 is W2.

In time i expect that both Dublin Bus & Bus Eireann will adopt that livery and it will be a uniform brand across the 26 counties. It's similar to Dublin Bus colour wise already anyway.

I'm sure people will cope with a change to the numbers.

The routes operated by Go Ahead in Dublin are using the livery:

EnzoScifo

Cork has been testing those low emission buses as well

mean gene

Cork City bus service does not operate to a schedule you stand in the p1ssing rain hoping one turns up shocking service

questionmark?

Issue been discussed today on the opinion line on Corks 96fm.

Gamb!t

They should stop having buses cut through the city traffic to get from A to B for example Mayfield to Bishopstown two really busy routes will never have buses on time.