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Can you afford a home in Ireland?

Elessar

Goodbody just released a new assessment of the housing market that states while more houses are slowly being built, the majority are well out of reach of most people:

In 2018, 31% of new houses sold were for more than €350,000, up from just 23% in 2017. In Dublin, more than half of new homes were sold for more than €350,000, and one in five were for over €500,000.

To get a mortgage for a 350k house you would need a joint income of at least 90k + 35k deposit. But I don't know where these 350k houses are in Dublin because even where I live, 20km from the city center, all new builds are over 400k. Meaning a 40k deposit and over 100k joint income. I've seen quite a few 500k+ builds aswell - requiring a 130k joint income aswell as 50k deposit.

Two features are particularly striking in the data. Firstly, there is a very large proportion of the population who cannot afford to get on the housing ladder without significant outside support, be it from the Government or family and friends.

Assuming joint income earners on the same income, roughly half of the 1.5 million notional couples have a joint income of less than €45,000 per year.

Assuming these couples can raise a 10% deposit, the maximum they can afford for a house is €175,000. The private market cannot deliver homes at this price point.

The second observation relates to how the numbers drop off substantially once household income rises above €110,000. This couple can theoretically borrow enough to purchase a house worth €430,000, with a 10% deposit. Just one-in-10 couples could afford to pay this price, yet one-in-six new houses this year were sold above this value.

It's clear that construction costs (and profit margins) are so high that building houses that average people can afford is not viable. Meaning 1.5 million people will potentially be relying on government subsidised housing, most I assume, in Dublin.

Yet, anecdotally, all of the 400k+ houses in my area have sold and even this far from the CC there is huge demand - so clearly, a lot of people can still afford these prices.

I know the even with a relatively well paid job in IT I cannot afford to buy a home. What about other boardsies?

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Wheeliebin30

stateofflux wrote: »

I wish posters would stop with the 'buy where you can afford shtick'..it implies things are the same as they always were...which is not true.

It is a fact that cost of living has become disproportionate with earnings since the crash with salarys staying fixed for the most part and cost of living rising

This coupled with lack of housing supply & lending rules has made it a lot harder to afford a home in a liveable area.

I would guess the cash buyers now have been saving for a long time and/or have family cash support..

Its gonna get a lot worse before it gets better..

Would not be surprised with govt being shamed into proper action with embarrassing housing/homeless headlines in world media

There is a reason it’s hard to get a mortgage now.

Something about a bailout and recession.

Do we want another one?

Try_harder

gozunda wrote: »

That was a comment on the status quo not any 'personal' situation tbh. As for 'aspirational' - Magaret Cash et al seems to be aspiring alright. How's your 'stamps' (sic) btw?

Well as I work I have a full set. I wouldnr want Ms Cashs life or home

Wanderer78

NSAman wrote:

It is an issue, but it took me 20 years from my first starting work to afford my own little place.

It's well documented now that productivity across many sectors has dramatically increased over the last couple of decades, but wage inflation has remained relatively low, couple this with rapid asset price inflation, particularly in housing, and you ve a problem. I.e. people are working harder than ever, but the ability to buy a home is moving further from their abilities. This is a different era, even though I'm sure buying a home has always been difficult, including for previous generations, we have a very different set of circumstances now, which is causing a divide amongst us, whereby many older generations have multiple properties, and many younger generations are struggling to get a foot hold in the market, some simply never will.

bennyineire

Change the title to "Dublin" please.

Plenty of affordable housing outside of Dublin, I'm really getting sick of people using prices from Dublin as the yard stick for Ireland.

There was an article last year in the Irish Times of some lad from Dublin who married a girl from Latvia who then emigrated there with her.
He lamented that he could buy a house 1 hour outside of Riga but he couldn't afford a house in Dublin, eh did he every try 1 hour outside of Dublin

Keatsian

bennyineire wrote: »

He lamented that he could buy a house 1 hour outside of Riga but he couldn't afford a house in Dublin, eh did he every try 1 hour outside of Dublin

Popular commuter towns in Kildare, Meath and Wicklow are all pricey, and can take 60-90minutes to commute from during peak times.

Dravokivich

What's all this talk about joint income?

iamtony

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What, you have a right to own a house now...?

How much do you think you should be earning before being offered a mortgage?

What are you one of these people who think renting for the rest of your life should he the norm. People want to eventually own their own home of course they do. In a society where renting is the norm all the landlords get wealthy while the common folk have to pay rent out of their pensions and live on peanuts.

I think the problem is not enough emphasis on saving, it should be drilled into us by our parents and by schools, personal finance should be a class.
Will power is a big issue. We should of all saved at least 30% of our pay since we left school but goin out an gettin out of it every weekend is the norm. P. S I include myself in this bracket when I was younger. And ordering food and wearing designer gear and iPhone etc. just basically not budgeting.
Social norms are ruining it not the government.

Edit. Basically the point I'm making is people need a bigger deposit then they can borrow earning less money.

Wanderer78

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Go to Germany Sweden etc the majority donâ€™t own a house.

This may very well be the case, but I'd imagine there's far better protection laws for both property owners and tenants in these countries, we ve implemented policies that exposes both parties, which is having a detrimental effect on both, this has become a gigantic mess, with no clear solutions

Greyfox

I earn 28,000 a year and can't afford to go back to college so unless I marry a rich woman I'll never own a house. Years ago you could have an ok job and afford a house, now only the well off can afford a house and that's the sad reality of Ireland. enjoying life while your not too old is what matters, what's the point in working and studying your arse off if your miserable all the time

NSAman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's well documented now that productivity across many sectors has dramatically increased over the last couple of decades, but wage inflation has remained relatively low, couple this with rapid asset price inflation, particularly in housing, and you ve a problem. I.e. people are working harder than ever, but the ability to buy a home is moving further from their abilities. This is a different era, even though I'm sure buying a home has always been difficult, including for previous generations, we have a very different set of circumstances now, which is causing a divide amongst us, whereby many older generations have multiple properties, and many younger generations are struggling to get a foot hold in the market, some simply never will.

It was the same when I purchased. Which is only in the past 12 years. I simply couldn’t afford a home despite everyone else owning multiple properties.

I SHOULD have just got the mortgage when they were handing them out hand over fist before the crash, but simply thought that house prices were overvalued (which I think they are now and I think there will be another crash globally). I waited.

It is never easy getting that first house. Patience and buying when you can afford was my mantra. It is not easy when you have a family I agree.

The current situation is a little different than previously, but the old adage of saving for the rainy day still are still the key words for achieving goals.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Elessar wrote: »

What? Troll harder, or better still read the OP.

Em, where exactly?

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/new-homes-for-sale/millers-glen-millers-glen-swords-dublin-99487/

The whole point is it is becoming impossible for the average person to buy a home due to costs spiralling out of control. I can see a situation where costs are so great that it becomes commercially unviable to sell houses for less than 500k. Meaning even couples on above average salaries will rely on state house building.

I read the OP - he expects a house based purely on having a job. Doesnt work like that. You're not entitled to the deeds of a house purely because you have a salary.

Wanderer78

NSAman wrote:

The current situation is a little different than previously, but the old adage of saving for the rainy day still are still the key words for achieving goals.

Unfortunately we re now in a situation where saving for a rainy day is becoming impossible for many young people, as many simply require all their income to survive, what a mess.

I have family living in London, none of their adult kids can afford to move out, there are now 6 adults living in a relatively small house, with no prospects of moving into a place of their own, including rental. Major cities of ours such as Dublin are heading down this road.

Day Lewin

Property is much, much cheaper outside of Dublin. Rural Ireland, lots of houses available.

Agreed, there are snags attached, like having to commute for work and having dam' all public transport. But there are still options for creative thinking.

Repeat three times: MUCH CHEAPER OUTSIDE DUBLIN (and other main cities) - yes, you can afford a home in Ireland.

NSAman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfortunately we re now in a situation where saving for a rainy day is becoming impossible for many young people, as many simply require all their income to survive, what a mess.

I have family living in London, none of their adult kids can afford to move out, there are now 6 adults living in a relatively small house, with no prospects of moving into a place of their own, including rental. Major cities of ours such as Dublin are heading down this road.

Spot on post. But there are alternatives to the larger cities.

I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland. I took a chance and this chance has paid off more than I could ever imagine. I see the same situations in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles.

This will continue. Larger cities cost more, have homes that are part time user needs. Dublin is no different. There is a fluid class of individuals who work in capital cities. If you can orientate your life to avoid larger cities do so.

I left to live in a rural area of the US and can work basically from anywhere. I work hard and save my ass off so now I have the ability to retire back home/retire part-time here, or even work into my older age.

If there is one thing that I have learned from all of this, it is patience. Be self reliant and never try to follow what everyone else is doing.

_Kaiser_

I could probably get a mortgage, but not anywhere suitable for work or family, and so what's the point?

As it is I live an hour away from work and a bit more than that from my son and so driving is a must (and expensive!). On top of that I am single so don't have the joint income needed these days, and no way to save with the expense of rent, a young child, and commuting costs. Both parents are dead so no "free money" deposits there either, which long term doesn't really help the market either as it skews the real figures people have/can afford.

I'd be on "good money" too given the supposed average figures that are often quoted, but realistically I'm probably going to be stuck renting for a long time yet.

The irony of all this is that back in the Good Times I used to get calls fortnightly offering me money for a mortgage or anything else I wanted really.. But I didn't want to live in the middle of nowhere then either (friends were moving out to places like Wexford, Ratoath, Cavan which were very different in the mid-90s) and I worried about how I'd pay for it if something happened to my income so I declined the offers.

As it turns out however, I (and everyone else!) has ended up paying for it anyway, and even more since the rental market has gone insane in the last few years.

I should have just taken every cent I was offered and cried foul when it all fell apart. Seems to have worked for others.

Sonics2k

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I read the OP - he expects a house based purely on having a job. Doesnt work like that. You're not entitled to the deeds of a house purely because you have a salary.

OP literally never said that though. The OP pointed out the basic joint income requirements to even be considered for a mortgage is very high, which it frankly is.

I'm in the process of getting a mortgage now and the absolute truth of the matter is that it never would have happened if numerous family members didn't gift us small amounts to help us get just the basic deposit of €22k.

Even then, it massively limits the choices of houses we'll be spending our lives in.

Wanderer78

NSAman wrote:

I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland. I took a chance and this chance has paid off more than I could ever imagine. I see the same situations in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles.

It's great to hear of your successes but moving away isn't always an option for some, for various reasons, some simply don't have this option, some simply don't want to, social mobility isn't exactly clear cut, money is required, qualifications are probably a must, some simply don't have these things to do so

Keatsian

Day Lewin wrote: »

Property is much, much cheaper outside of Dublin. Rural Ireland, lots of houses available.

Agreed, there are snags attached, like having to commute for work and having dam' all public transport. But there are still options for creative thinking.

Repeat three times: MUCH CHEAPER OUTSIDE DUBLIN (and other main cities) - yes, you can afford a home in Ireland.

So the solution is for everyone to move to remote rural areas with non-existent public transport and commute via car for several hours daily. We can house thousands of people down some country road in Longford. Do you people even think for a nanosecond before suggesting these things?

andekwarhola

If I remember correctly, there's still places you can buy around the 300 mark and under but they're in perfectly OK but unfashionable places like Lucan, Swords, Citywest, (old) Tallaght etc

There still a leftover feeling in Dublin, perhaps because so many people were brought up in areas that they can no longer afford, that there is some type of right to conveniently located properties in trendy areas.

Dublin has become a modern capital with a cost of living and wages to match so unfortunately, like people in other such cities, you now have to go for what you can afford and if neccesaary, buy further out or take a chance of less fashionable areas.

I do agree though that the social housing fudge by successive governments have left an entire sector of society stuck between exorbitant private rental and not being able to afford to buy.

Keatsian

NSAman wrote: »

Spot on post. But there are alternatives to the larger cities.

I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland. I took a chance and this chance has paid off more than I could ever imagine. I see the same situations in New York and Chicago and Los Angeles.

This will continue. Larger cities cost more, have homes that are part time user needs. Dublin is no different. There is a fluid class of individuals who work in capital cities. If you can orientate your life to avoid larger cities do so.

I left to live in a rural area of the US and can work basically from anywhere. I work hard and save my ass off so now I have the ability to retire back home/retire part-time here, or even work into my older age.

If there is one thing that I have learned from all of this, it is patience. Be self reliant and never try to follow what everyone else is doing.

Young Irish people just don't seem to understand you should save up and buy a house in a rural location in a completely different country. Problem solved.

[Deleted User]

We got our mortgage approval but it's all gone a bit mad so might hold off yet and go through the rigmarole again another time. Basic 3 beds for like 400k no thanks

_Brian

Elessar wrote: »

Goodbody just released a new assessment of the housing market that states while more houses are slowly being built, the majority are well out of reach of most people:

To get a mortgage for a 350k house you would need a joint income of at least 90k + 35k deposit. But I don't know where these 350k houses are in Dublin because even where I live, 20km from the city center, all new builds are over 400k. Meaning a 40k deposit and over 100k joint income. I've seen quite a few 500k+ builds aswell - requiring a 130k joint income aswell as 50k deposit.

It's clear that construction costs (and profit margins) are so high that building houses that average people can afford is not viable. Meaning 1.5 million people will potentially be relying on government subsidised housing, most I assume, in Dublin.

Yet, anecdotally, all of the 400k+ houses in my area have sold and even this far from the CC there is huge demand - so clearly, a lot of people can still afford these prices.

I know the even with a relatively well paid job in IT I cannot afford to buy a home. What about other boardsies?

You can not afford where you are looking.

Either earn more or readjust your expectations and buy a house where you can afford.

Why do people insist on choosing areas to live based on what they would like rather than what they can afford.

NSAman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It's great to hear of your successes but moving away isn't always an option for some, for various reasons, some simply don't have this option, some simply don't want to, social mobility isn't exactly clear cut, money is required, qualifications are probably a must, some simply don't have these things to do so

Never say never wanderer. Jesus I sound like an old sage!..;)

Problems are only things that need to be overcome. Change has always been good to me. Whenever I get told no, I prove people wrong. If you have the belief in what you can achieve you can achieve anything. It does require smarts and of course hard work.

Everyone has to decide what is right for themselves. Personally, I never have followed what the herd is doing. It has worked for me. I do not come from a privileged background, I come from a working background. You simply have to see where you fit in and make that work for you.

Yes. I would love the shiny glossy house but that simply isnt going to happen for me. I have bought old and done up. I have sold on, I have bought again and sold on. Luckily, it has been fun for me (as well as working) and I am now in a position of financial stability I could not have dreamed of, but it has taken a long time and a lot of sacrifice.

Patience....;)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sonics2k wrote: »

OP literally never said that though. The OP pointed out the basic joint income requirements to even be considered for a mortgage is very high, which it frankly is.

I'm in the process of getting a mortgage now and the absolute truth of the matter is that it never would have happened if numerous family members didn't gift us small amounts to help us get just the basic deposit of €22k.

Even then, it massively limits the choices of houses we'll be spending our lives in.

Again - that's not the issue. It's the idea that you MUST own a house.

Deposits are in place for a reason. There was a crash not so long ago partially because the criteria were too low. Then theres supply/demand. There's simply not enough houses - or enough space - for every family to own a house.

On the continent there isn't this 'I'm entitled to a house because I work' mentality and as a result, they didn't have as a big a crash when the **** hit the fan.

How else do you decide who should own one and who doesn't?

NSAman

Keatsian wrote: »

Young Irish people just don't seem to understand you should save up and buy a house in a rural location in a completely different country. Problem solved.

Perhaps if you read other posts by me Keatsian, you would know I dont only own property in rural locales (amongst others) in completely different countriES, but also here at home.

I refer you to the post above... work hard, save and use your smarts..;)

c.p.w.g.w

iamtony wrote: »

What are you one of these people who think renting for the rest of your life should he the norm. People want to eventually own their own home of course they do. In a society where renting is the norm all the landlords get wealthy while the common folk have to pay rent out of their pensions and live on peanuts.

I think the problem is not enough emphasis on saving, it should be drilled into us by our parents and by schools, personal finance should be a class.
Will power is a big issue. We should of all saved at least 30% of our pay since we left school but goin out an gettin out of it every weekend is the norm. P. S I include myself in this bracket when I was younger. And ordering food and wearing designer gear and iPhone etc. just basically not budgeting.
Social norms are ruining it not the government.

Edit. Basically the point I'm making is people need a bigger deposit then they can borrow earning less money.

Younger people seem to prioritize designer/status items such as iPhone, Michael Kors, Alex & Ani, season ticket for the rugby etc

Had a buddy giving out about the costs of buying a house, yet was happy to renew his munster season ticket and get the latest iPhone over the summer.

_Kaiser_

_Brian wrote: »

You can not afford where you are looking.

Either earn more or readjust your expectations and buy a house where you can afford.

Why do people insist on choosing areas to live based on what they would like rather than what they can afford.

Because no one wants to live in a run down area with known antisocial problems, or in the middle of nowhere with no facilities or transport.

These are rapidly becoming all that's available to people and it's not an answer for many.

Nor is this idea that "that's life for Dublin nowadays" and comparing it to the likes of London or other major cities.. FFS it's DUBLIN. A sprawling suburban mess with poor public transport, traffic chaos and generally poor standards of housing. It simply doesn't justify the cost of living or the cost of renting or a mortgage when you stand back and look at what you're paying for.

Just like 10 years ago the property market is out of control but this time the rental sector is worse and crucifying those who can't afford a mortgage.

We need to really look at the reality here which is that we're a small country with a small population and one actual mid-size city by international standards and ask why it is that everything costs so much and why we get so little back for the direct (and more importantly indirect) taxes we pay every month.

Keatsian

NSAman wrote: »

Perhaps if you read other posts by me Keatsian, you would know I dont only own property in rural locales (amongst others) in completely different countriES, but also here at home.

I refer you to the post above... work hard, save and use your smarts..;)

You said "I had to emigrate late in life as I could not earn a proper living in Ireland.
[...]
I left to live in a rural area of the US."

So your solution to not earning a "proper living" in Ireland was to leave. Someone who left is not an example of how to solve a housing problem in Ireland - regardless of whether they happen to own property here now - because Ireland is not concerned with housing people who don't live in it.

myshirt

Property taxes need to go up massively and CAT needs to go up massively, and no one likes it.

Housing policy and taxation policy has to drive workers near jobs, and those retired with little money or long term unemployed away from them. The build to rent model will go some way to doing this. It will keep a constant pipeline of workers fed into productive use, as if you can't afford the rent then off with you and in with the replacement. It's harsh at a glance, but overall better for the economy. A lot of rural people give out about Dublin, but the country needs a strong Dublin, and Dublin needs a strong Cork Limerick Galway corridor. None of that is going to happen unless we get the policy right.

One eyed Jack

I’ve never fully got my head around some people’s obsession in Ireland with owning property or having a mortgage that they complain about it’s affordability, etc, or just the idea of owning a house.

The OP asks the question can people afford homes in Ireland. At no point do they suggest anyone is actually entitled to own a home in Ireland (we’ve had enough of those threads already), so in answer to the question - yes, I can afford a home in Ireland. I could also afford to own property in Ireland, a house, if I wanted. I don’t want to though, as I’m quite happy to rent, and owning property has never been a goal of mine personally. I choose to rent, and for me where I live is home.