WetDaddy wrote: » Thanks! So, a related question then... The position of the time clock is pretty close to the boiler and on an external wall in the kitchen (a room which tends to be on the warmer side, although generally colder than upstairs). Is there a big disadvantage to placing a thermostat there or is it just a few of figuring out what temperature generally works for our home? Thanks in advance!
irishfire wrote: » Using a smart thermostat when you're not also using zoned controls is a bit of a cop out IMO and you are as well off fitting a smart switch rather than a smart thermostat. I have 2 installed along with a smart plug, they connect directly to WiFi and have their own app with timers and countdowns etc, but also interface to Google home for voice control and remote control. No gateway and very reliable so far. The plugs also do a random setting that will turn on a lamp or similar at random periods during a set time for security, making it look like someone is home. Will get the name of them and update but would advise strongly against smart thermostat in the meantime
ted1 wrote: I’ve to disagree with you . Smart thermostats are good and if recommend them.
irishfire wrote: » When they are installed in a new build and property thought out then yes, they are very effective. However any that I have seen retrofitted are normally not in an appropriate location for temperature sensing as they just replace a time clock so are in a utility room or similar. Anyway the units I mentioned above are Optimum Connect by Tower.
ted1 wrote: » They are generally Wireless and can be placed anyway, regardless as long as the temperatures in the wrong location is linear to the correct location then it’s licatuib is irrelevant. A WiFi thermostat will turn on the heat in a empty building a smart one will not. That’s the key differentiator Also if they just replace a thermostat then they are not smart.
ted1 wrote: Also if they just replace a thermostat then they are not smart.
Dardania wrote: OP if you're making any capital investment here, as other posters have said you should get a smart thermostat
irishfire wrote: » To be fair, op never mentioned smart in the title or post, he wanted a WiFi time clock which I have advised him on. As Discussed mentioned above, to get good use out of a "smart thermostat", requires a capital investment in proper zoning etc. The device I mentioned is available in wholesalers for about €40+VAT and is a huge improvement over a standard time clock.
WetDaddy wrote: » Sorry for the delay in getting back to you guys. Been busy trying to cram these worms back into that can I opened... ;-) Thanks very much to everyone for their input. I think there's valid points to both main opinions here. I decided to go with a gen3 Nest as it's provided with a Heat Link. That's effectively a remote switch which connects to the boiler directly (i.e. physically replaces the time clock) and the actual thermostat itself, which does all the smart work, can be placed elsewhere. It fits my needs but also allows me an element of future proofing. I'll post back to let you know how it goes. P. S. I'll probably move my current legacy WiFi time clock up to my hot water tank and not worry about leaving the immersion on!
ted1 wrote: You strongly advised against smart thermostats, explain why.
ted1 wrote: Your WiFi plug will keep the boiler on when the house is empty. A smart one won’t.
ted1 wrote: No it doesn’t.... you don’t need to invest proper zoning.
irishfire wrote: » Coming from a background in construction and building services design and having seen houses be BER rated and energy usage reviews carried out, I would advise against installing smart thermostats in a retrofit situation unless there is proper zoning used or added as they do not provide a suitable return on investment in that configuration. We're talking about smart thermostats that are a minimum of €200 versus a WiFi time switch that runs at around €50 and will provide the same function a smart thermostat will that doesn't have any proper zoning behind it. In fact it won't, once I go outside my various geofences it changes the heating to different programs that I use to keep the coldness out of the house when I'm away or working in the office and also starts operating lights at random times after dark to simulate occupancy. Yes you do, and if you think that throwing a €200 thermostat into a house is the way to make it smart then you can have that opinion. But the fact remains that proper zoning is the back bone of a proper heating system. At the end of the day your only controlling the zones you have to direct the heat generated, whether that's using lever valves, multi channel timers, the WiFi time switches I fit or indeed one of the full blown smart heating systems which I have no problems saying perform extremely well, when installed properly.
irishfire wrote: » This is a lot more related to residential settings but if you want to have that conversation then I have a BEng in Mechanical and an MEng in Energy Systems. My day to day work involves the design of building management systems and HVAC control and my views on this are shared by our 2 senior energy engineers. The BER most definitely has plenty of issues but it is the national system we use so there's not much point getting into that, DEAP 4 is supposedly going to address some of these issues. Setting the temperature hotter in the utility is very much a bodge on what is supposed to be a smart system. It almost defeats the purpose of it being a smart system. As for convenience I find that the system I use is a lot better than any of the smart thermostats as it integrates all the settings into one place for lighting and heating and the other controls I have on it, along with handling the interface with Google Home for voice control. I have total control of automation in the app without having to go into using IFTTT or similar. That's about as convenient as I could hope for especially when combined with the geofencing which controls all appliances in one control. They aren't just WiFi time clocks, they are WiFi switches that are cloud controlled and integrated, if I chose to add temperature sensing I could make them into a fully autonomous control.
The high horse brigade wrote: Not sure what brands you've come across but none of the better smart systems are tying you to a thermostat in the utility.
ted1 wrote: My google mini integrates my Nest, smoke and CO alarms, lights, switches etc they are cloud controlled and locally controlled. How is it that you don’t understand that smart thermostats have all the integration too. ( I don’t consider the climote as smart )
ted1 wrote: Maybe we both were in the sane class when we got our BEng...
irishfire wrote: » I'm not trying to slate smart thermostats if that's what you're getting at, my point is that you won't get the benefit out of half installing these systems, and by half installing I mean that you're on a single zone system or have to set temperatures higher because the thermostat is not in the living area.
wexfordman2 wrote: I fail to understand how a heating engineer can say a standard in)off time switch (albeit with remote access) is a better solution compared to a smart system like nest with built in thermostats etc.
irishfire wrote: » You haven't read the thread if you think we're talking about nest vs. timed only control. I'm talking about smart devices outside of nest etc that provide the geofences and timers that suit. And yes, with the benefit of some home testing, and the experiences of other lads at work there are many situations where a smart system will do damn all good for a home heating system, and can even increase costs if the home is not occupied most of the time.
