Jim2007 wrote: » And we need a solution that actually works, that is the primary objective here. And in that respect it is far easier to put a couple of warships into Belfast Lough than to police the NI border. The is why it is the favoured option for the EU side including the EU parliament.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Anyone who got BBCNI should remember the morning news pretty much every day starting with "A man has been injured in a paramilitary-style attack in..." unless there had been a bombing in the last few days.
downcow wrote: » Do you not understand that if borders in ireland upset nationalists and threaten the peace, then borders in the Irish Sea upset unionists and equally threaten the peace.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Or they believed what their institutions and senior politicians told them, ie that the NHS would be better funded, that decline in the deprived parts of the UK was down to free movement of people and that our laws were being made in Brussels. You're on a Political forum which is tightly moderated. This isn't a way most people choose to spend their time so it can be fairly argued that you are politically engaged to a degree beyond the average voter. I see where you're coming from but attempts to "otherise" the 17.4 million Leave voters of all stripes aren't going to do any good in the long run.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » Apparently there are going to be "blitz-like" tv ads in Britain in the new year preparing public for no deal including telling people not to book flights abroad from April 1st.
First Up wrote: » I get the feeling that some people's (negative) vision of "the EU" is a big building in Brussels. If they thought of it as cooperation between the people, governments and industries of 27 countries, they might be better able to understand what its about.
Strazdas wrote: » Definitely the public were lied to by their press over many years but the 17m were also unbelievably cavalier with their vote. Cameron told them the vote was irreversible and there were the numerous warnings about the potential negative impacts of Brexit : they must be a nation of hardened gamblers, as they threw their mortgage and their life savings onto the roulette wheel with scarcely a moment's thought.
Strazdas wrote: » You have national newspapers like The Sun and the Daily Telegraph openly campaigning for No Deal. That's how nutty the atmosphere is.
downcow wrote: » I don’t accept that there is a Devine right for Eu to hold on to states and perceive it as the states fault if it’s peolle decide they want out.
Tell me how wrote: » A petition in the UK reached over 100K signatures (meaning the government responded to it) calling for a No Deal because the organisers believed that a No Deal would allow them to keep things the way they are and to start negotiating after the 29th of March. :eek: :eek: The government responded with one of May's statements "The deal which has been negotiated is the best deal and is the deal that will be delivered".
Professor Moriarty wrote: » "That is a unicorn that needs to be slaughtered."
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » Why would the EU want to negotiate a "managed no deal"? Unless the EU 27 felt it was a critical economic interest for them. The truth is it isn't.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » I was thinking of both sides there. I think your average voter of either bent just wants progress and not more debate. Of course, we're then back to the conceit that a binary referendum could resolve such a complex and multifaceted issue.
Strazdas wrote: » I've absolutely no sympathy for the "I'm bored with Brexit" brigade. What on earth did they think they were doing when they strolled into their polling station in 2016? Leaving the EU was an extreme and most radical of policies being proposed by a far right party (UKIP) and yet they ticked X on the ballot paper as if they were voting to raise the price of postage stamps by 10p. It was always highly likely the vote to Leave would set off political chaos in Britain and chaos that would last for many years.
Strazdas wrote: » I've seen a few episodes of that programme. I think people nearly forget how dysfunctional and toxic NI was back then. Every episode was full of bombings, shootings and riots and interviews with angry politicians.
Tell me how wrote: » I saw the last 3 episodes of this. Each of the episodes I saw seemed to be primarily focused on the troubles and the associated violence. It was no accident that appeared on the air at this point in time and I wonder were there complaints by some DUP people that it was unsuitable to broadcast this right now. I must keep an eye out for the full series if it is shown again.
Hurrache wrote: » Off topic but not really, I wat a random episode of Pop Goes Northern Ireland the other night, think Reeling in the Years entirely populated with street violence, rioting, murder and triumphalism. It was from 1995, fresh as a daisy to many of us here, the year of the infamous"they haven't gone away you know". 5 minutes watching would focus the mind of anyone downplaying the importance of the GFA.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Let's dissect this. Firstly, the "Let's get on with it" attitude is likely a symptom of political fatigue across the UK. In the past five years, we've had 2 general elections, 2 sets of local elections, a highly divisive referendum with seconds for the Scots and European elections. That's a relatively high amount of trips to the ballot box for a country which rarely indulges in referenda. Many people are fed up of hearing about Brexit and want to get on with it. These tend to be older people while the younger tend to favour abandoning the whole fell enterprise. Secondly, the siege mentality is a product of years of being drip-fed poison by an overwhelmingly right-wing, anti-working class Eurosceptic press whose owners despise the EU. That's basically it. The Conservative party was happy to moan about the EU without ever trying to make it work for Britain, at least in the past few decades. The quintessential countervailing example is Margaret Thatcher and the Delors commission. The EU has been depicted from being meddlesome to Mrs. Merkel's personal Fourth Reich by the British press while the Guardian has opted to become the leading producer of divisive identity politics and the BBC has striven for "Balance" by attempting to offend nobody and failing everyone. Successive Labour and Conservative governments had opportunities to try and make the UK less unequal. Instead, they did the opposite. Smashing unions, hollowing out institutions, the Iraq war, the expenses scandal, letting the north, Scotland, Wales and NI rot while London and the southeast flourish while trying to sell off the NHS piecemeal were the orders of the day and this is the result. You can't create a chasm of inequality and then complain when people on either side of said chasm view each other with hostility. This is the result and it was made in Britain.
Over the past 20 odd years, since the Maastricht treaty we have seen the EU steadily tighten its grip on Europe in a way which no-one who advocated joining the common economic area in 1973 expected or would be in favour of. Recent worldwide liberal movements have been instigated and encouraged by upper-class groups and individuals. These elitists will never have to suffer the consequence of failed immigrant integration or reduced employment conditions as a result of the masses of people which have moved from Africa and the Middle East with largely financial motivations. This ultra-liberal movement has tried to create a world where the white male existing today is responsible for all injustices suffered by people of colour and must succumb to a manner of some sort of positive discrimination to atone for their perceived sins. The UK, given its historic relevance has long been a target for other nations who have always been jealous of the standing which it has held in the world. It is now being told that not only can it not control its borders or its own economy or justice system, it must be punished for even attempting to do so. Finally, now that the elites within the UK and Europe see just how determined we are to leave, and out of their concerns for what that will do to their 'Euroland' dream project, they are seeking to undermine the most democratic vote the country has ever held in order to make us stay.
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