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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Tell me how

Thargor wrote: »

This is a 100% Tory sh1tshow, well Tories and their rightwing media cronies, why on Earth would Labour want to jump into the breach and take all the blame just as it gets really bad? Let the Tories own it all the way and hopefully it will lead to real change when people see their standards of living slipping.

That's a very macabre attitude for a party who we can expected were elected to try to look after the best interests of their constituents.

It's a let them suffer and we will get in to power as a result type approach.

Scary to think if that is actually what is being discussed within the Labour parliamentary party meetings.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

It sounds like it is not me has the problem there. You have a bit to be getting on with lensterdub. A big chip needs removed and I am share there are sound reasons why you are carrying it.
Thanks to all of you who put my mind at ease re ROI, Ire, Eire or whatever ðŸ‘

If it helps, I'm a fairly staunch Nationalist, from the border counties but living in Dublin for years now....I routinely refer to Ireland, The Republic of Ireland, ROI, and 'The South, and I've yet to find anyone offline get offended by it. I do have a tendency to refer to back home as 'The North', which bent a few noses out of place when I lived in Belfast, but nothing of note really.

I HAVE found that the majority of people back 'up North' who use EIRE tend to be somewhat pejorative, but nothing that would upset me.

I'd say work away, because as someone who's doubly invested in the situation, I'm acutely aware of multiple people trying to speak on behalf of 'Ulster farmers', but personally, I'm quite enjoying hearing it from the horses mouth, so to speak, even if I disagree with some of your reasoning.

To quote Savage Eye, "Carry on, country boy!"

Professor Moriarty

Enzokk wrote: »

Looking at the time of the post I am back about 40 minutes. I am not sure who the Guido Fawkes person is but the other one is Jason Aurthur from For Our Future's Sake. When they started a man was singing on a loudspeaker but after JRM talked in the HoC they went back to them and it is better as you can hear them at least.

If this is what was referenced.

That's the one. Jacob lite (Tom Harwood) was destroyed before and after the loudspeaker interruption

seamus

Tell me how wrote: »

There is no alternative as far as the EU are concerned. This is it, or walk.

By "alternatives" I mean a general election or referendum. They just have to cry "a vote is coming, a vote is coming!" for four weeks and then it's May's deal or no deal.

serfboard

Tell me how wrote: »

You could argue, she is doing her damnedest to go closest to satisfying both sides (not a disaster of a deal (depending on your interpretation) and still delivering Brexit).

That's exacly what she is doing. Perfectly logical from her point of view - delivering Brexit (thus satisfying the result of the referendum), but not a crash-out disastrous Brexit.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Regarding Brexit, 54% want to remain, 32% want to crash out., 14 % want May's deal. The tide might definitely be turning but a split remains.

I've said previously a three-way Ref2 is the only way to break the deadlock.

I find it hard to believe that a third of the British population want a crash-out Brexit. Good God.

Tell me how wrote: »

That's a very macabre attitude for a party who we can expected were elected to try to look after the best interests of their constituents.

It's a let them suffer and we will get in to power as a result type approach.

Scary to think if that is actually what is being discussed within the Labour parliamentary party meetings.

Not scary at all for ideologues. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

Pretty standard operating procedure in politics.

Laois_Man

Apparently, Corbyn thought he could get no confidence vote against May done before Thursday's Christmas recess - but he didn't realise the vote cannot be held until January 15th and now there's talk that they might hold a no confidence vote in the government itself, which would be voted upon this Wednesday!

tuxy

Laois_Man wrote: »

and now there's talk that they might hold a no confidence vote in the government itself, which would be voted upon this Wednesday!

Given that the Tories still have the backing of the majority of the seats, people would have to decide to vote themselves out of power for this to work.
Would labour stand to gain anything by holding a vote that they will lose?

Hurrache

boggerman1 wrote: »

God things have ratcheted up.looking at sky news just now a leaver and a remainer debating.the Tory guy a prat but the background noise is like a football match.brexiteer supporters roaring all sorts.its getting ugly now.dunphy was right yrs ago when he called out a certain class of people as completely uneducated. Even skys political correspondent fisial can't think of his second name getting shouted "your not British anymore".

It got pretty nasty alright
https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1074699565218086912?s=19

Akrasia

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I agree. Let them continue to crash and burn. I think their missed opportunity was in electing Corbyn. Someone like Starmer would have e crushed May and the Tories by now.

No deal brexit is really bad for Ireland and could be a catalyst for a return to violence in NI.

As much as the Tories deserve to lie in the bed they have made for themselves, there are a lot of innocent bystanders, including us on the island of Ireland who will also suffer if that happens

Professor Moriarty

Hurrache wrote: »

It got pretty nasty alright
https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1074699565218086912?s=19

Sky should have put their cameras on them and made it headline news.

Dyr

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I HAVE found that the majority of people back 'up North' who use EIRE tend to be somewhat pejorative, but nothing that would upset me.

Historically I think the reason for the annoyance was that Irish people looked on it as a reference to Saorstat Eire.

I don't mind Northerners using a term like "The South", it makes sense if you're a Northerner but English people saying "The South" and "Southern Ireland" is a different kettle of fish

Hurrache

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sky should have put their cameras on them and made it headline news.

It's hard to know what to do in such a situation, publicly shame them, or starve them of the publicity they crave.

J Mysterio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Interesting Sky poll just out. 31% of people think May is the best person to lead Britain through Brexit. Unsurprisingly, only 24% think Corbyn is best. Labour really have missed their opportunity.

Regarding Brexit, 54% want to remain, 32% want to crash out., 14 % want May's deal. The tide might definitely be turning but a split remains.

32% want to crash out?? That is ****ing madness. Goes to show that since Parliament and the mad brexiteers havent tempered their language or faced reality, they have badly infected the public. Unbelievable.

Fionn1952

Bambi wrote: »

Historically I think the reason for the annoyance was that Irish people looked on it as a reference to Saorstat Eire.

I don't mind Northerners using a term like "The South", it makes sense if you're a Northerner but English people saying "The South" and "Southern Ireland" is a different kettle of fish

Funnily enough, I'd imagine the term, 'Northerner" is probably considered in a similar light. Ultimately pretty inoffensive, particularly with context, but I'll bet there are plenty of numpties out there who'd be horribly offended by it. If you're anything like my closest friends down here, you're safer with, 'Nordy c**t'.

I won't mention the folk I know who still refer to this end of the world as, 'The Free State"....primarily from the Nationalist/Republican end of the Nordy community.

Professor Moriarty

Akrasia wrote: »

No deal brexit is really bad for Ireland and could be a catalyst for a return to violence in NI.

As much as the Tories deserve to lie in the bed they have made for themselves, there are a lot of innocent bystanders, including us on the island of Ireland who will also suffer if that happens

For sure but we are helpless

Professor Moriarty

Hurrache wrote: »

It's hard to know what to do in such a situation, publicly shame them, or starve them of the publicity they crave.

If it were me, I'd have them chanting their bile on TV.

judeboy101

Laois_Man wrote: »

Apparently, Corbyn thought he could get no confidence vote against May done before Thursday's Christmas recess - but he didn't realise the vote cannot be held until January 15th and now there's talk that they might hold a no confidence vote in the government itself, which would be voted upon this Wednesday!

At this stage corbyn couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Thargor

Laois_Man wrote: »

The current performance of the Labour Party shows Labour in no better light than if they did "jump into the breach and take all the blame just as it gets really bad". If there is a General Election soon, I could see them being overtaken by the Lib Dems!

I dont see how anyone could think an opposition parties performance could be called as bad as what the Tories have done over the last few years. Tory behaviour since the day the referendum was called is unprecedented in modern politics, literally putting the country in danger for completely self serving reasons that have completely blown up in their faces.

J Mysterio

Hurrache wrote: »

It's hard to know what to do in such a situation, publicly shame them, or starve them of the publicity they crave.

Have the police arrest them for public order offence

Hurrache

These are the same few morons who blocked an emergency medical response vehicle responding to a call from crossing a bridge during one of their ****ty protests and gave the crew the fingers.

Tell me how

Thargor wrote: »

I dont see how anyone could think an opposition parties performance could be called as bad as what the Tories have done over the last few years. Tory behaviour since the day the referendum was called is unprecedented in modern politics, literally putting the country in danger for completely self serving reasons that have completely blown up in their faces.

They've been able to so partly because of the ineptitude of the Labour Party.

The actions of 7 people have led this to be the absolute sh*tstorm which it has turned out to be.

Nigel Farage, David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees Mogg, David Davis, Jeremy Corbyn

Of all of them, Theresa May is the only one who I think has been in any way motivated about what is in the best interest of the country in trying to honour the vote and still having some form of a workable relationship with the EU on the 30th of March.

She did many many things wrong. But, I think she did them for 'somewhat' understandable reasons.

The rest of them? Entirely self motivated and Corbyn deserves as much blame as the rest.

downcow

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I think it's just polite to use the preferred name of a country unless disambiguation is required. You made a genuine mistake, fair enough let's just move on so.

Ps speaking of names my username is right there on the screen. It has an I.

ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚. Fair enough. No offence meant in the missing ‘i’. I think you would fit in well up here with your sensitivities ðŸ˜€

downcow

Bambi wrote: »

Historically I think the reason for the annoyance was that Irish people looked on it as a reference to Saorstat Eire.

I don't mind Northerners using a term like "The South", it makes sense if you're a Northerner but English people saying "The South" and "Southern Ireland" is a different kettle of fish

I have had my eyes opened tonight. I have a fairly diverse friendship circle up in the occupied 6 and enjoyed many discussions on diversity but I completely missed the sensitivities over the name of the free 26. I’ll will honestly be more aware going forward. So it’s ireland? So does that mean yous own the rugby team? Serious question

J Mysterio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Interesting Sky poll just out. 31% of people think May is the best person to lead Britain through Brexit. Unsurprisingly, only 24% think Corbyn is best. Labour really have missed their opportunity.

Regarding Brexit, 54% want to remain, 32% want to crash out., 14 % want May's deal. The tide might definitely be turning but a split remains.

Further on this, it goes to show that May's nonsense slogan of 'No Deal is Better than a Bad Deal' has seared itself into the public consciousness along with other rubbish like 'Brexit means Brexit'. Seem much of the Brexit voting public are now deciding that no deal is better than a bad deal: May's deal.

ancapailldorcha

downcow wrote: »

So does that mean yous own the rugby team? Serious question

Mod: Please do not drag the thread off topic.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Funnily enough, I'd imagine the term, 'Northerner" is probably considered in a similar light. Ultimately pretty inoffensive, particularly with context, but I'll bet there are plenty of numpties out there who'd be horribly offended by it. If you're anything like my closest friends down here, you're safer with, 'Nordy c**t'.

I won't mention the folk I know who still refer to this end of the world as, 'The Free State"....primarily from the Nationalist/Republican end of the Nordy community.

My da always called it the free state. But he was one of those Donegal prods yous chased out. That’s why I live up north. So every cloud has a silver lining lol ðŸ˜‚

downcow

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mod: Please do not drag the thread off topic.

Apologies. I don’t think it was me took it this direction. I was answering a series of questions. My lips are sealed on the rugby team. ðŸ˜‡

LeinsterDub

The way Varadkar, the Taoiseach, talks about Britain is astonishing. It is motored by the elitist, practically imperial belief that what is good for his government — his foreign government

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/who-does-leo-varadkar-think-he-is/

A must read for everyone the above quote is just one of half a dozen such gems

Tell me how

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/who-does-leo-varadkar-think-he-is/

A must read for everyone the above quote is just one of half a dozen such gems

Written by Andrew Maxwell's buddy, Brendan O'Neil. Him of peasant stock.

Hurrache

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/who-does-leo-varadkar-think-he-is/

A must read for everyone the above quote is just one of half a dozen such gems

Clicked on the link, blog by Brendan O'Neil, he of Irish peasant stock. Won't be reading that, he's painful enough when on TV.

Edit, snap with the post above.