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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Nody

Winters wrote: »

IF this had been fully understood then the Tories should never have signed a C&S with the DUP.

May would have signed it being an expert anyway because it enabled her to remain as PM and that is the one and only thing May gives a damn about.

lawred2

Enzokk wrote: »

Here is link to their live video and you can go back on the video. Do you mean the Guido Fawkes guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOacA3RYrXk

how far back?

Headshot

lawred2 wrote: »

how far back?

I put money on 1hr 50mins. The guys looks up his arse, so basically Mog 2.0

Enzokk

lawred2 wrote: »

how far back?

Looking at the time of the post I am back about 40 minutes. I am not sure who the Guido Fawkes person is but the other one is Jason Aurthur from For Our Future's Sake. When they started a man was singing on a loudspeaker but after JRM talked in the HoC they went back to them and it is better as you can hear them at least.

If this is what was referenced.

downcow

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Unless you're speaking Irish , the name of our country is Ireland. I'd wager you don't refer to Spain as España

ðŸ˜‚ this really sums up the prejudice we are dealing with. I made an honest mistake which I for absolutely no political agenda and lensterdub gets very upset. I ignore the continual reference to my country as ‘the north’ which is loaded with political agenda. And of course we are the bigots up in the black north ðŸ˜‚. And I have genuinely learnt something. I thought the country on the south of the island was called Rep of Ireland.
A serious question, Who started this Rep of ire business if it’s not true and is it offensive? As I honestly try not to offend

EdgeCase

There's a poll being reported in the Times showing that if Corbyn backs this deal they'll lose remainers' support rather spectacularly.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-remainers-to-abandon-corbyn-if-he-passes-brexit-deal-6zfjgnm5w

briany

lawred2 wrote: »

Ultimately despite all the platitudes - Westminster doesn't give that much of a toss about the DUP's fears of being pushed further away from the union.

I doubt they give much of a toss over Irish concerns about a border on the island, either. The question is which of those they give less of a toss about.

On the one hand, I think the DUP and their backward ways are a bit of an embarrassment to the UK government, but on the other hand NI being cleaved off from the UK by the EU in any way would become a nationalistic sore point. It wouldn't be quite Alsace-Lorraine being ceded to France after WWI, but it would be similarly useful for those who give off anti-EU rhetoric.

setanta1000

downcow wrote: »

�� this really sums up the prejudice we are dealing with. I made an honest mistake which I for absolutely no political agenda and lensterdub gets very upset. I ignore the continual reference to my country as ‘the north’ which is loaded with political agenda. And of course we are the bigots up in the black north ��. And I have genuinely learnt something. I thought the country on the south of the island was called Rep of Ireland.
A serious question, Who started this Rep of ire business if it’s not true and is it offensive? As I honestly try not to offend

Ah I wouldn't get too hung up on it - technically the official name of the 26 counties of Ireland is either Eire (in Irish) or Ireland (in English), so technically you weren't wrong to call it Eire (the front of my passport says Eire and Ireland); however, in my experience the word Eire is rarely used in Ireland and most people now use the Republic of Ireland in conversation with non Irish people to distinguish from the geographical island of Ireland and this is from the 1949 Republic of Ireland Act that said the state should be described as the Republic of Ireland - if all that makes sense.

Don't let that deter you from sharing your view of Brexit on this forum - good debate needs opposing voices to be worthwhile - as long as both sides are civil and can agree to debate specific points.

murphaph

Did Corbyn just table a motion of no confidence in May?

Inquitus

murphaph wrote: »

Did Corbyn just table a motion of no confidence in May?

It seems so, per the Beeb.

cml387

setanta1000 wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't get too hung up on it - technically the official name of the 26 counties of Ireland is either Eire (in Irish) or Ireland (in English), so technically you weren't wrong to call it Eire (the front of my passport says Eire and Ireland); however, in my experience the word Eire is rarely used in Ireland and most people now use the Republic of Ireland in conversation with non Irish people to distinguish from the geographical island of Ireland and this is from the 1949 Republic of Ireland Act that said the state should be called the Republic of Ireland - if all that makes sense.

Don't let that deter you from sharing your view of Brexit on this forum - good debate needs opposing voices to be worthwhile - as long as both sides are civil and can agree to debate specific points.

Absolutely right.
One thing is that I can understand Downcown's fears of a border between the UK and NI from a farming point of view. Although here is considerable cross border agricultural trade, I would guess the majority of trade is with the UK.

EdgeCase

murphaph wrote: »

Did Corbyn just table a motion of no confidence in May?

He's just taken it back off the table again and May's announced a vote for 14 January.
We'll see if that ever materialises.

I would suspect they're keen to wrap up for Xmas at this stage.

Tell me how

murphaph wrote: »

Did Corbyn just table a motion of no confidence in May?

Inquitus wrote: »

It seems so, per the Beeb.

No.

They threatened a vote.

Labour had threatened to force a confidence vote in the PM if she did not set a date for the vote.

Typical Labour non-action as per the norm over the last few years.

Enzokk

Tell me how wrote: »

No.

They threatened a vote.

Typical Labour non-action as per the norm over the last few years.

That was earlier, it does seem as if he has tabled a motion of no-confidence now.

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1074726294905069569

Ross Kempsell - "Labour just spent last few hours claiming it got what it wanted by ‘forcing’ the PM to reveal vote date - therefore no need for no confidence

Now they have tabled motion of no confidence in her anyway"

Strazdas

downcow wrote: »

&#55357;&#56834; this really sums up the prejudice we are dealing with. I made an honest mistake which I for absolutely no political agenda and lensterdub gets very upset. I ignore the continual reference to my country as ‘the north’ which is loaded with political agenda. And of course we are the bigots up in the black north &#55357;&#56834;. And I have genuinely learnt something. I thought the country on the south of the island was called Rep of Ireland.
A serious question, Who started this Rep of ire business if it’s not true and is it offensive? As I honestly try not to offend

I think both Ireland and Republic of Ireland are perfectly acceptable.Apparently Republic of Ireland is the legal name of the state and Ireland is the constitutional name (I know, we're splitting hairs here).

Inquitus

Tell me how wrote: »

No.

They threatened a vote.

Typical Labour non-action as per the norm over the last few years.

No Corbyn tabled it, seems like he had a cuppa after bottling it earlier and decided to give it a whirl!

Tell me how

Enzokk wrote: »

That was earlier, it does seem as if he has tabled a motion of no-confidence now.

Ross Kempsell - "Labour just spent last few hours claiming it got what it wanted by ‘forcing’ the PM to reveal vote date - therefore no need for no confidence

Now they have tabled motion of no confidence in her anyway"

For the love of god. They don't even have confidence in their motion of no confidence.

What happens if they do table it?
Will it be held immediately?
What happens if the motion is upheld? Does it mean a GE?

LeinsterDub

downcow wrote: »

ðŸ˜‚ this really sums up the prejudice we are dealing with. I made an honest mistake which I for absolutely no political agenda and lensterdub gets very upset. I ignore the continual reference to my country as ‘the north’ which is loaded with political agenda. And of course we are the bigots up in the black north ðŸ˜‚. And I have genuinely learnt something. I thought the country on the south of the island was called Rep of Ireland.
A serious question, Who started this Rep of ire business if it’s not true and is it offensive? As I honestly try not to offend

Prejudice please! You live right nextdoor to a country and you don't know it's name? Perhaps you should expand your horizons.

http://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i279/ireland_the_politics_of_nomenclature.aspx

I don't refer to Northern Ireland as the north

Enzokk

Tell me how wrote: »

For the love of god. They don't even have confidence in their motion of no confidence.

What happens if they do table it?
Will it be held immediately?
What happens if the motion is upheld? Does it mean a GE?

Well I am just guessing here from the lack of tweets I see about it that it seems to be a publicity stunt right now. It would be up to the government or Speaker of the House whether to proceed with the motion, I think. So while he can table it, it doesn't mean it will actually proceed.

Also, it is in her as PM and not in the government so she could lose it if a vote is ever held but it would not need a GE. This is all just my speculation.

LeinsterDub

Strazdas wrote: »

I think both Ireland and Republic of Ireland are perfectly acceptable.Apparently Republic of Ireland is the legal name of the state and Ireland is the constitutional name (I know, we're splitting hairs here).

Republic of ireland is just a description of the the state's form of government. Like calling the UK the constitutional monarchy of Great Britain and North Ireland and don't get me started on the BBC using Irish republic

Laois_Man

All its going to do is embarrass May - if she loses it

She doesn't have to resign and no General Election as it's not a no confidence vote in the Government.

seamus

May is basically holding the UK to ransom with her dates. It's her deal or no deal. Once we hit 14th January, there's no time for anything else. No time for an alternate deal. No time for a general election. No time for a referendum.

Talk of using the time to get assurances from the EU is all lies to delay any possible alternative from being tabled.

downcow

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Republic of ireland is just a description of the the state's form of government. Like calling the UK the constitutional monarchy of Great Britain and North Ireland and don't get me started on the BBC using Irish republic

It sounds like it is not me has the problem there. You have a bit to be getting on with lensterdub. A big chip needs removed and I am share there are sound reasons why you are carrying it.
Thanks to all of you who put my mind at ease re ROI, Ire, Eire or whatever ðŸ‘

Enzokk

Laois_Man wrote: »

All its going to do is embarrass May - if she loses it

She doesn't have to resign and no General Election as it's not a no confidence vote in the Government.

I think it may be more optics from Labour. There is confusion on whether Corbyn saw her speech before he threatened a no-confidence motion on her not setting a date. If he did see the speech it means he threatened the motion knowing she set a date. Now he still gets to stick to his word and nothing happens to her.

Edit: Here is a tweet to hopefully better explain what has happened.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1074730599091499008

LeinsterDub

downcow wrote: »

It sounds like it is not me has the problem there. You have a bit to be getting on with lensterdub. A big chip needs removed and I am share there are sound reasons why you are carrying it.
Thanks to all of you who put my mind at ease re ROI, Ire, Eire or whatever ðŸ‘

I think it's just polite to use the preferred name of a country unless disambiguation is required. You made a genuine mistake, fair enough let's just move on so.

Ps speaking of names my username is right there on the screen. It has an I.

tuxy

Strazdas wrote: »

I think both Ireland and Republic of Ireland are perfectly acceptable.Apparently Republic of Ireland is the legal name of the state and Ireland is the constitutional name (I know, we're splitting hairs here).

Article 4 of the Irish constitution states that the country is called Éire or in the English language Ireland

Republic of Ireland Act did recommend that the name of the state be changed to the Republic of Ireland but later this part of the act was not used to amend the constitution so the name of the state remains the same.

You're free to call the country whatever you want but what's written in the Irish constitution that really counts.

Tell me how

seamus wrote: »

May is basically holding the UK to ransom with her dates. It's her deal or no deal. Once we hit 14th January, there's no time for anything else. No time for an alternate deal. No time for a general election. No time for a referendum.

Talk of using the time to get assurances from the EU is all lies to delay any possible alternative from being tabled.

There is no alternative as far as the EU are concerned. This is it, or walk.
You could argue, she is doing her damnedest to go closest to satisfying both sides (not a disaster of a deal (depending on your interpretation) and still delivering Brexit).

Of course, neither side is remotely close to being happy, but right now, is her approach not the best option?

Thargor

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Interesting Sky poll just out. 31% of people think May is the best person to lead Britain through Brexit. Unsurprisingly, only 24% think Corbyn is best. Labour really have missed their opportunity.

Regarding Brexit, 54% want to remain, 32% want to crash out., 14 % want May's deal. The tide might definitely be turning but a split remains.

This is a 100% Tory sh1tshow, well Tories and their rightwing media cronies, why on Earth would Labour want to jump into the breach and take all the blame just as it gets really bad? Let the Tories own it all the way and hopefully it will lead to real change when people see their standards of living slipping.

Laois_Man

Thargor wrote: »

This is a 100% Tory sh1tshow, well Tories and their rightwing media cronies, why on Earth would Labour want to jump into the breach and take all the blame just as it gets really bad? Let the Tories own it all the way and hopefully it will lead to real change when people see their standards of living slipping.

The current performance of the Labour Party shows Labour in no better light than if they did "jump into the breach and take all the blame just as it gets really bad". If there is a General Election soon, I could see them being overtaken by the Lib Dems!

Professor Moriarty

Thargor wrote: »

This is a 100% Tory sh1tshow, well Tories and their rightwing media cronies, why on Earth would Labour want to jump into the breach and take all the blame just as it gets really bad? Let the Tories own it all the way and hopefully it will lead to real change when people see their standards of living slipping.

I agree. Let them continue to crash and burn. I think their missed opportunity was in electing Corbyn. Someone like Starmer would have e crushed May and the Tories by now.