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There are around 30 billion planets in our galaxy , and there are...

badabing106

... over 100 billion galaxies in the observable Universe

Do you think it's more likely or less likely that this planet has the most intelligent species in the cosmos

Does anybody else ever look up at the sky and see that vast dark sky with twinkling stars and think...how unimportant and insignificant we are in the grand scheme of things..

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Gwynplaine

There is no spoon

demanufactured

badabing106 wrote: »

... over 100 billion galaxies in the observable Universe

Do you think it's more likely or less likely that this planet has the most intelligent species in the cosmos

Does anybody else ever look up at the sky and see that vast dark sky with twinkling stars and think...how unimportant and insignificant we are in the grand scheme of things..

"And nobody knows we're here......

So let's wreck the joint."

Tommy Tiernan. 2002

archer22

suicide_circus wrote: »

yes we are. by an enormous margin.

No we are not...we are the ones destroying the planet through greed, stupidity and mindless uncontrolled breeding.

The rest of Earths inhabitants would keep the planet in a pristine condition for ever.

Now that is being really smart :cool:

evillive

So either earth is the only populated planet in the universe or it isn't. either way is fascinating to comprehend given the size of same!!

Franz Von Peppercorn

archer22 wrote: »

No we are not...we are the ones destroying the planet through greed, stupidity and mindless uncontrolled breeding.

The rest of Earths inhabitants would keep the planet in a pristine condition for ever.

Now that is being really smart :cool:

No they wouldn’t. Life has already changed the environment on the earth. And all animals would procreate to their maximum ability. Only humans control it in fact.

RobbingBandit

Elvis didn't die he just went home.

runawaybishop

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s not a refutation of the Drake equation.

If technological civilisations were plentiful then many would be billions of years older than us, and have time to populate the galaxy with probes.

Of course it is, you can't just peek a look into a small section of a giant room for a split second and claim it's empty. Especially when you don't even know what to look for.

Raheem Euro

You also have the idea that any sufficiently advanced civilisation would eventually send out Von Neumann probes, which given enough time would eventually reach every star system. And if this was the case you would expect that there would be an active or obsolete Von Neumann machine in our Solar System that we might end up finding.

Franz Von Peppercorn

runawaybishop wrote: »

Of course it is, you can't just peek a look into a small section of a giant room for a split second and claim it's empty. Especially when you don't even know what to look for.

The Drake equation assumes lots of civilisations vastly more ancient than us and vastly more technological. More than half would be smarter. Most would be older.

They’d be visible alright. As a previous poster says there would be Von Neumann probes all over the shop.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Raheem Euro wrote: »

You also have the idea that any sufficiently advanced civilisation would eventually send out Von Neumann probes, which given enough time would eventually reach every star system. And if this was the case you would expect that there would be an active or obsolete Von Neumann machine in our Solar System that we might end up finding.

Lots of probes in fact. Even at a low speed of 0.1 C a Von Neumann probe would get to all solar systems in a million years. There’s potentially been billions of years for some extra terrestrial technology to develop.

Avatar MIA

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There’s potentially been billions of years for some extra terrestrial technology to develop.

For once my AHs and serious response is the same... why would anyone be arsed to create such a probe/machine.

Also, you'd expect another intelligent life-force would destroy them in a virus antivirus relationship.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Avatar MIA wrote: »

For once my AHs and serious response is the same... why would anyone be arsed to create such a probe/machine.

For the giggles. Or exploration.

Also, you'd expect another intelligent life-force would destroy them in a virus antivirus relationship.

They aren’t viruses. That’s Carl Sagan’s explanation but it never made sense to me.

Avatar MIA

[HTML][/HTML]

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

They aren’t viruses. That’s Carl Sagan’s explanation but it never made sense to me.

I'm glad Sagan agrees.

if they are exploiting the universe another civilisation will see them as a threat, soooo...

jester77

Considering civilisation destroyed our last planet in a far away galaxy, and we moved to Earth and killed our biggest threat, the dinosaurs, who were the the most intelligent species at that time, I'm not sure we are all that intelligent. History is repeating itself and we are now destroying this planet.

Capt'n Midnight

“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
- Douglas Adams

Capt'n Midnight

archer22 wrote: »

Except in another century humans will be too busy trying to survive in the hellhole that they have created for themselves.

Sounds like Brexit.

runawaybishop

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Drake equation assumes lots of civilisations vastly more ancient than us and vastly more technological. More than half would be smarter. Most would be older.

They’d be visible alright. As a previous poster says there would be Von Neumann probes all over the shop.

Yes, it makes a lot of assumptions.

How hard have we looked for these probes? Would you say we have searched, for example, Jupiter pretty well?

Seriously, this is nonsense talk. We haven't even gotten out of bed.

Church on Tuesday

I really hope there is something better than humanity out there.

blinding

We are just morons , especially everybody else and me !

Yellow Vest

We need a God Emperor of Man to lead humanity in a crusade to exterminate all alien life within the galaxy.

biko

badabing106 wrote: »

There are around 30 billion planets in our galaxy , and there are... ... over 100 billion galaxies in the observable Universe

There are 100 billion planets in our galaxy last I checked.
And the 100 billion galaxies will probably become 200 once our telescopes gets better.

We will just never really know.

ArtSmart

emo72 wrote: »

The filter is going to get us. We've only just come out of the swamp, and we've created a **** load of existential traps for ourselves. If we make it through the next 200 years intact we may have a chance. Take your pick, climate catastrophe. Physics experiment at LPC. Biological leak from lab. Plain auld nuclear war. Ecological breakdown. The flu. AI, now that's scary.

But we deserve a chance. No reason why, but I'm optimistic. I can't believe we've come this far too **** it up.

Wrong Handle, right sentiment...

Franz Von Peppercorn

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, it makes a lot of assumptions.

How hard have we looked for these probes? Would you say we have searched, for example, Jupiter pretty well?

Seriously, this is nonsense talk. We haven't even gotten out of bed.

My argument is the argument most scientists make. Assuming the Drake equation is true. There should be tens or hundreds of thousands of civilisations who have sent probes. They should be all over the shop. As well as that many technological species should have made visible changes to the galaxy. Dyson spheres etc.

Skylinehead

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

My argument is the argument most scientists make. Assuming the Drake equation is true. There should be tens or hundreds of thousands of civilisations who have sent probes. They should be all over the shop. As well as that many technological species should have made visible changes to the galaxy. Dyson spheres etc.

Remember that these things would have had to happen in the last 30 or 40 years for us to notice. Minus the millions of light years between of course.

topmanamillion

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

My argument is the argument most scientists make. Assuming the Drake equation is true. There should be tens or hundreds of thousands of civilisations who have sent probes. They should be all over the shop. As well as that many technological species should have made visible changes to the galaxy. Dyson spheres etc.

There are estimated to be 100 billion planets in our milky way galaxy alone. Even if there are probes "all over the shop", it's an incredibly big shop.

Cee-Jay-Cee

For anyone to think that we are the only intelligent species in a universe of hundreds of billions of planets really does prove that we are far far far from being intelligent let alone the most intelligent in the universe.

Franz Von Peppercorn

topmanamillion wrote: »

There are estimated to be 100 billion planets in our milky way galaxy alone. Even if there are probes "all over the shop", it's an incredibly big shop.

I already said it would take a million years. Out of the billions available to other civilisations.

They would be everywhere. Every solar system. Every planet. And if the Drake equation is correct there would be many civilisations doing this

Franz Von Peppercorn

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

For anyone to think that we are the only intelligent species in a universe of hundreds of billions of planets really does prove that we are far far far from being intelligent let alone the most intelligent in the universe.

And yet most scientists do think that. For extremely rational reasons.

EdgeCase

If you want to get a sense of how empty space is, the two Voyager probes have managed to fly essentially blind from earth into interstellar space (outside the solar system) without hitting a single rock! And they left Earth in 1979.

So it's quite a big 'space' to search.

It's a bit like trying to find a specific subatomic particle in a needle in a haystack that's full of needles.

Larbre34

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

My argument is the argument most scientists make. Assuming the Drake equation is true. There should be tens or hundreds of thousands of civilisations who have sent probes. They should be all over the shop. As well as that many technological species should have made visible changes to the galaxy. Dyson spheres etc.

A little too much Star Trek methinks.

Lets say for the sake of argument, 1,000,000 advanced civilisations in the Universe sent out probes to search for fellow civilisations on other worlds. You suggest they should be all over the shop...

Voyager 2 departed Earth the same month Elvis died, August 1977. It has just recently left the solar system. Travelling at an average speed of 55,000 km/h (Shane Ross would not be happy) or over 45 times the speed of sound, that took over 41 long, cold, quiet years.

Now, to quote from the wiki on our Galaxy, the Milky Way. If that 41 year journey was scaled to the size of a quarter dollar coin (50c coin in euros roughly), the Galaxy would be the size of the continental United States across. Or about 185 million times as big. 200,000 light years... And there are between 10 and 20 billion galaxies...

To refer back to our 1,000,000 friendlies across the Universe. All those dudes could launch probes much faster and more sensitive than Voyager 2, every day of the year until they got bored and still the odds of them encountering each other, or an inhabited planet, are infinitesimally small.

The values in the Drake equation are made up, due to lack of any verifiable measurement, so its only good for lighting the fire.

I'm fully certain, on scale alone, that we are not alone in the Universe, or even the Galaxy, but that if humanity by some miracle should survive till our Sun dies, we would still never have meaningful contact with them.