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Uber

stonebob

Just back from London where I used Airbnb and Uber with great success......Uber was half the price of a taxi and there seemed to be one around every corner ..everyone loves them ..I know there's an argument about regulation of drivers but there's a lot of dodgy taxi drivers too just read the papers ...the drivers were polite ..spotless cars..and they don't tap on..

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MJohnston

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'd imagine that needs to be assessed on a market by market basis. For example, what laws are they flouting in the U.S.?

Oh, where to start? Try here (warning: it's a really long list) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uber_protests_and_legal_actions#United_States

If that's the case and you feel that their proposition is unsustainable, then you have little to worry about as they will simply cease to exist (if the model actually is unsustainable..).

I don't know that the model is unsustainable, I think Uber is just uniquely terribly run (or has been in the past at least). Lyft is getting on okay in comparison.

The Uber model that you're presumably referring to is the unlicensed ('peer to peer') ride-sharing that allows any random person to become an Uber driver. There are loads of reasons why this model is much more suitable to somewhere like San Francisco than somewhere like Dublin.

MJohnston

punisher5112 wrote: »

Straight up there may well be better drivers and less dangerous criminals doing it as many taxis are.

Unfounded nonsense.

LuckyLloyd

makeorbrake wrote: »

right, but are these taxis with taxi licenses?

But the app / tech is available in Ireland and you no longer have to carry cash to use a taxi (and haven’t since Hailo a half decade ago). So what are you talking about again exactly?

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

Unfounded nonsense.

Really....

Many many many actually convicted criminals driving around..
Some have many plates also.

It's totally fine if you don't believe me but I've known some and come across others over the years.

Losty Dublin

makeorbrake wrote: »

It's futile to stand in the way of tech. Regulate of course but a blanket bank like we have here - i'm sorry but protectionism is never the way to go. It means we will always be late to the party and the whole country suffers as a consequence.

I like not having to carry cash where I am. In the country I'm in right now, dodgy **** is likely to happen in a taxi. Uber is electronic meaning drivers can be traced.

But Uber is not illegal here. Uber is legitimate, Uber is perfectly legal here.

The chief difference between services like Uber in Ireland (And much of Europe) and in the US is that in Ireland your vehicle and driver has to be licensed and insured for hire as a cab. As a company Uber seem to think that they should be above such a law or that it should be scrapped purely to adhere to their corporate plan.

For the record there are many other cab hire apps that are happy to use licenced cabs; MyTaxi being one such global firm. Many local cab firms have their own apps or have licensed other apps to use as their own. What's good for the goose etc etc

Stephen15

Black cabs in the UK are far superior to taxis here in Ireland. Drivers are far more professional and always know where they're going and the cars themselves are far more suitable for the work they do as they are purpose built taxis which are all wheelchair acessible and very spacious compared to just having normal cars.

I think there would be a gap in the market for a similar service here in Ireland but many I'm sure many would associate the idea of black cabs as being an English thing and wouldn't think they'd be suitable in this country. Taxi drivers here should also have to do similar geograpical knowledge to London taxi drivers.

MJohnston

punisher5112 wrote: »

Really....

Many many many actually convicted criminals driving around..
Some have many plates also.

It's totally fine if you don't believe me but I've known some and come across others over the years.

I don't really care - what I'm calling unfounded nonsense is your presumption that app-run taxis services would be any better.

Nermal

"MJohnston wrote: »

The Uber model that you're presumably referring to is the unlicensed ('peer to peer') ride-sharing that allows any random person to become an Uber driver. There are loads of reasons why this model is much more suitable to somewhere like San Francisco than somewhere like Dublin.

Such as?

MJohnston

Nermal wrote: »

Such as?

Here's one: taxis can use bus lanes.

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

I don't really care - what I'm calling unfounded nonsense is your presumption that app-run taxis services would be any better.

When did I say they would be???

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

I don't really care - what I'm calling unfounded nonsense is your presumption that app-run taxis services would be any better.

Great argument that you " dont really care"

Thanks for the input.....

I believe they should be all vetted, rigorously tested, have better testing on driving and be held to account.

A proper team checking and keeping them in line and by God have them actually having working brake lights and dipped beams.

MJohnston

punisher5112 wrote: »

When did I say they would be???

Right here you plum:

Straight up there may well be better drivers and less dangerous criminals doing it as many taxis are.

MJohnston

punisher5112 wrote: »

Great argument that you " dont really care"

Thanks for the input.....

I believe they should be all vetted, rigorously tested, have better testing on driving and be held to account.

A proper team checking and keeping them in line and by God have them actually having working brake lights and dipped beams.

What. Relevance. Is. That. To. This. Topic.

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

What. Relevance. Is. That. To. This. Topic.

Eh.....

Your not ready for an adult discussion are you.

We need proper controls across them all.

Doesn't matter whether Uber or taxi or hackney we need control and better then what's in place now.

Imagine there is very high profile criminals driving ordinary punters around who know no better....

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

Right here you plum:

I don't really like plums but thanks for noticing the fine pair I have.....

MJohnston

Jesus, what a fücking classic thread.

punisher5112

MJohnston wrote: »

Jesus, what a fücking classic thread.

Ubertastic

magicbastarder

just because it's technology doesn't mean it's good.

magicbastarder

or to expand - technology is generally neither good nor bad. it's what you do with it that counts.

Nermal

MJohnston wrote: »

Here's one: taxis can use bus lanes.

I’ll solve that one for you: neither Uber nor taxis should be allowed to use them.

markodaly

As I mentioned earlier, Uber is not ridesharing. We do not do ride sharing in Ireland at all. In fact, we as a nation are a really inward looking when it comes to new innovations and tech. The Asians **** all over us in that regard.

MJohnston

Nermal wrote: »

I’ll solve that one for you: neither Uber nor taxis should be allowed to use them.

How do you reckon Uber are going to manage to swing that one?

MJohnston

markodaly wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier, Uber is not ridesharing. We do not do ride sharing in Ireland at all. In fact, we as a nation are a really inward looking when it comes to new innovations and tech. The Asians **** all over us in that regard.

I don't think this is true at all. Contactless payments? Adopted very rapidly, including Apple/Google Pay. Taxi apps? Hailo was a massive success very quickly. Deliveroo has been a huge success too. Dublin Bikes became a global model for how to successfully implement a bike-rental scheme. Mobile phone networks in Ireland are far more generous with their data plans than a lot of other countries - go and compare with USA for example. Intercom? A massively successful Irish tech startup. Daft really changed how the property market worked in Ireland long before many other countries started doing similar things (when I lived in California in 2013 they were still using Craigslist for rentals ffs).

Then there's all the tech benefits we get from EU membership like SEPA, low-cost roaming, etc.

As I said, goto the USA to see a country that really struggles to adopt new innovation. They still have to use cheques, still don't have a Direct Debit style system, still have to sign receipts and swipe their cards, still have to pay through the nose for ****ty internet connections (even in big cities), etc.

The advantage that some Asian countries have over EU countries is the rampant lack of consumer protections. I think we strike the right balance here, myself.

strandroad

punisher5112 wrote: »

I believe they should be all vetted, rigorously tested, have better testing on driving and be held to account.

A proper team checking and keeping them in line and by God have them actually having working brake lights and dipped beams.

Why do you think that Uber, a famously lax company will provide any of this?

If a regulated taxi breaks the rules they can lose their license. If a Uber driver breaks the rules they'll be dumped from the app that's all.

Uber took off abroad where there were no decent taxis and no apps/card payments. In Dublin the last thing we need is rando cars clogging the city cruising for business.

makeorbrake

strandroad wrote: »

Uber took off abroad where there were no decent taxis and no apps/card payments.

I don't agree with this - that somehow irish taxis are better. That's nonsense. Most markets now have taxis with the opportunity to use an app.

strandroad wrote: »

In Dublin the last thing we need is rando cars clogging the city cruising for business.

They don't 'cruise' anywhere. They go directly from job to job.

strandroad

makeorbrake wrote: »

I don't agree with this - that somehow irish taxis are better. That's nonsense. Most markets now have taxis with the opportunity to use an app.

Not most cities, not in the US anyway. Some are still scrambling to get any decent taxi service and organise into an app service, ask some Americans for their horror stories. We take a lot of things for granted. They have 100-400k cities with no public transport at all for example. US is designed for people with their own cars, if you don't have one you're done. Hence their need for Uber.

makeorbrake wrote: »

They don't 'cruise' anywhere. They go directly from job to job.

Not true, see New York and what happened there especially in Manhattan. See how many Ubers you see on the map at any given time in London too, they are not on the job, they are waiting for one.

Spook_ie

Uber are in Ireland, just that the maximum fares orders applicable to SPSVs isn't to their liking, no routine gouging on busy nights.

makeorbrake

strandroad wrote: »

Not most cities, not in the US anyway. Some are still scrambling to get any decent taxi service and organise into an app service, ask some Americans for their horror stories.

There are other countries in the World aside from the U.S. although probably too late for them to get apps as from what i could see from California in 2016, there were no taxis (practically).

strandroad wrote: »

We take a lot of things for granted. They have 100-400k cities with no public transport at all for example. US is designed for people with their own cars, if you don't have one you're done. Hence their need for Uber.

Of course the U.S. has no time for public transport. But why does this create the need for uber rather than taxis? Possibly because the former is a lot more efficient and more cost effective?

strandroad wrote: »

Not true, see New York and what happened there especially in Manhattan. See how many Ubers you see on the map at any given time in London too, they are not on the job, they are waiting for one.

That doesn't make much sense. An uber isn't going to go driving around touting for business. They wait for the next fare to pop up. A taxi on the other hand...

strandroad

makeorbrake wrote: »

Of course the U.S. has no time for public transport. But why does this create the need for uber rather than taxis? Possibly because the former is a lot more efficient and more cost effective?

Because Uber is so much cheaper; it saves on regulations, and the fares are massively subsidised by investors. You're not paying the real cost of your ride, VC pays a large part of it. That's why Uber it's burning so much cash. And it has a good app while they are still not standard for taxis.

makeorbrake wrote: »

That doesn't make much sense. An uber isn't going to go driving around touting for business. They wait for the next fare to pop up. A taxi on the other hand...

Of course they drive around, just look at your app in a proper Uber city and see them moving. There is nowhere for them to park for free in city centres so they keep cruising.

makeorbrake

strandroad wrote: »

Because Uber is so much cheaper; it saves on regulations, and the fares are massively subsidised by investors. You're not paying the real cost of your ride, VC pays a large part of it. That's why Uber it's burning so much cash. And it has a good app while they are still not standard for taxis.

What are the main cost-saving elements for them in terms of regulations?
As regards on-boarding people, sure they need plenty of VC money in that race. I already find that the uber algorithm has to be watched in the market I'm in - and I always check with cabify to get the correctly priced fare.

Other than that, I like the idea that someone can decide to go out for a few hours and work uber as and when it suits them. There's a lot of value in that for people.

strandroad wrote: »

Of course they drive around, just look at your app in a proper Uber city and see them moving. There is nowhere for them to park for free in city centres so they keep cruising.

It makes more sense to me that they would spend much less time 'driving around' than a taxi. Perhaps its the market i'm in, but every uber i use here is accepting their next job the minute I get out of the car.