nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

RobMc59

Donald Trump wrote: »

Should take a look at the main page of that particular website. https://newspunch.com/ They might just be on to something. Here is a selection of some of their headlines:

Seems like my kind of publication!! :pac:

There are more sites mentioning about the EU flags and surely if it's true thats unusual-I've never seen EU riot control vans and if anyone says it's normal that's surprising.

Donald Trump

brickster69 wrote: »

Vehicles under the EU Flag on the streets to quell protesters in Paris.

https://newspunch.com/eu-army-deployed-paris-crush-french-revolution/

No French flag to see

Should take a look at the main page of that particular website. https://newspunch.com/ They might just be on to something. Here is a selection of some of their headlines:

Newspunch wrote:

Rand Paul: Only Person Who Colluded With Russia Was Hillary Clinton

Congress: Clinton Foundation Should Have Been Registered As Foreign Agent

Elizabeth Warren Admits She’s a White Woman

Democrat Senator Lieu: I Would LOVE To Abolish Free Speech

British Royal Family Implicated In New Pedophile Lawsuit

Hillary Clinton Refuses To Deny Putin’s Claim She Took $400 Million From Russia

Boy Scouts File For Bankruptcy After Adopting Far-Left Ideology

New EU President: Merging Europe & Africa Part Of ‘New World Order’ Plan

Humans Can Detect Events 1-10 Seconds Before They Occur, Scientists Say

NASA: Intelligent Aliens Are On Earth, Hiding In Plain Sight

Seems like my kind of publication!! :pac:

Kermit.de.frog

Are the people frightened enough yet to undo the chaos in a second referendum?

I think there is a little bit to go but I highly suspect by next Winter little Englanders won't be sneering at the Dutch, French or Irish anymore for being made to vote again.

lawred2

seamus wrote: »

To believe that the EU has been building an army in secret and is now rolling their tanks through France and Germany is next-level conspiracy rubbish.

The reason this one vehicle has a flag is apparently because it was previously deployed in Kosovo as part of a unified EU group. They're probably not all that bothered about repainting an armoured vehicle.

Well it's 'news' now and those willing such lies to be true will believe it and dismiss reality in response

Hurrache

brickster69 wrote: »

Vehicles under the EU Flag on the streets to quell protesters in Paris.

https://newspunch.com/eu-army-deployed-paris-crush-french-revolution/

No French flag to see

You're a bit late with that, Gemma O'Doherty was already ranting about the secret EU army on the streets last week.

It's amazing how you can have such a big army in Europe and keep it so secret, where do husband/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends/family think their other half are going when they leave the house to go severe with this secret army?

seamus

To believe that the EU has been building an army in secret and is now rolling their tanks through France and Germany is next-level conspiracy rubbish.

The reason this one vehicle has a flag is apparently because it was previously deployed in Kosovo as part of a unified EU group. They're probably not all that bothered about repainting an armoured vehicle.

lawred2

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think we can rule out the tweet talking about the EU army on the streets of Paris...

I was being generous...

Captain Obvious

lawred2 wrote: »

Check out @CuAnnan’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/CuAnnan/status/1072953567387009029?s=09

Not sure which tweet is accurate but one thing is for sure I wouldn't go near anything called 'newspunch' for news.

That article is brilliant really. One of its sources is the daily mail..

The vehicle clearly says "Gendarmerie". Where is the EU flag though?

EDIT: Ah I see it beside the door.

tuxy

Water John wrote: »

I mean Lb should now table their vote and get it out of the way. Recognise it'll likely fail. But that will allow the process to move on, esp for Corbyn, 2nd Ref is next then.

Does Corbyn want a second referendum? He keeps changing his mind and sounds luke warm about the idea at best. He may have some pressure from his party to support that position but I don't think he likes the idea.
His goal will be to see how much damage the tories can do to themselves then wait for the right time to twist the knife. It's not about what is best for the UK but what is best for labour.

Podge_irl

lawred2 wrote: »

Not sure which tweet is accurate but one thing is for sure I wouldn't go near anything called 'newspunch' for news.

That article is brilliant really. One of its sources is the daily mail..

I think we can rule out the tweet talking about the EU army on the streets of Paris...

lawred2

brickster69 wrote: »

Vehicles under the EU Flag on the streets to quell protesters in Paris.

https://newspunch.com/eu-army-deployed-paris-crush-french-revolution/

No French flag to see

Check out @CuAnnan’;s Tweet: https://twitter.com/CuAnnan/status/1072953567387009029?s=09

Not sure which tweet is accurate but one thing is for sure I wouldn't go near anything called 'newspunch' for news.

That article is brilliant really. One of its sources is the daily mail..

Water John

I mean Lb should now table their vote and get it out of the way. Recognise it'll likely fail. But that will allow the process to move on, esp for Corbyn, 2nd Ref is next then.

brickster69

Vehicles under the EU Flag on the streets to quell protesters in Paris.

https://newspunch.com/eu-army-deployed-paris-crush-french-revolution/

No French flag to see

cml387

Just to say that everyone contributing to this thread should read Ivan Rodgers' speech,linked to by Captain Midnight in post 313.

It is a tour de force of clinical analysis of the lies,obfuscation and delusion that has taken place in Westminster for the past two years.

seamus

Leroy42 wrote: »

^his last bit sums everything up for me.

"What I mean is......" Shrug of the shoulders and simply opens his arms up.

"What I mean is, once a referendum has gone my way shouldn't we make it illegal to ever ask again in case it doesn't go my way next time?"

tuxy

Water John wrote: »

With TM getting SFA from the EU obviously, it's time for Lb to table their no confidence motion and get that out of the way, once she reports back to Parliament next week, when she'll be telling them another porkie.

They don't have the backing for this to pass. The DUP are still on side. Torys who wanted to change leader last weak would still back her over Corbyn.
It would just cause further time wasting and arguments.
If they do it now they won't be able to take over when the real chaos starts so they will bide their time.

Charles Babbage

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think you can track an awful lot of the effective splintering of societal discourse back to the Internet, or more specifically social media.

This is easy to say, but the British newspapers are resonsible for much of this, they've been spewing lies about the EU for 30 years and their reporting continues to lie.

Leroy42

^his last bit sums everything up for me.

"What I mean is......" Shrug of the shoulders and simply opens his arms up.

Captain Obvious

This is a new level of ridiculous for a leave supporter.

https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/question-time-soldiers-died-second-referendum/

What soldiers is he talking about?

Water John

With TM getting SFA from the EU obviously, it's time for Lb to table their no confidence motion and get that out of the way, once she reports back to Parliament next week, when she'll be telling them another porkie.

murphaph

Enzokk wrote: »

Well in fairness if Nissan employs 8000 people directly in Sunderland and a further 30 000 indirectly you have about 38 000 jobs relying on Nissan. The number of people that voted remain was almost 52 000 so in theory you could have had all of those people voting for remain.

I have no doubt that some people reliant on Nissan would have voted to leave but it could also be a case that all those that are directly employed voted to remain and it didn't make one bit of difference. I wonder how big the crab mentality played a part where people were happy to see their neighbours suffer financially because they have seen them move up on the economical ladder whereas they are stuck behind.

Also, not sure if this has been posted but it is a couple of days old,

Rolls-Royce to stockpile parts in case of hard Brexit

Loads and loads of turkeys voted for Xmas. Funny you should mention RR. I did my German language proficiency test alongside 3 Brits (who really need citizenship security) all working for RR in Dalewitz near Berlin. They reckoned vast numbers of their Derby colleagues voted to leave. They couldn't fathom it any more than we can.

judeboy101

HoC would have to pass referendum legislation before EU agree to extension, else EU risk UK potentially not pass legislation in HoC.

briany

Inquitus wrote: »

3/1 now at the bookies for the UK to vote to remain in the EU in 2019.

Between the members of Labour and the Conservatives who insist on respecting the original vote, and the members of Labour who continue to insist that another GE is the answer, how is a majority of parliament expected to pass the legislation required for another referendum, and moreover how can they be expected to agree on the question it poses?

Inquitus

3/1 now at the bookies for the UK to vote to remain in the EU in 2019.

Strazdas

fergiesfolly wrote: »

No matter what happens, you'd have to believe that the UKs relationship with it's closest EU neighbours is damaged irrevocably.
Their politicians, helped by their media have spewed vile accusations, lied to their own people and made all sorts of derogatory remarks about their neighbours.
Even if the final outcome is Remain, what EU leaders or negotiators will want to sit round a table with their UK counterparts.

The situation is reparable I think but the current crowd would have to depart the scene and be seen to have left ie. the Tories, Farage, Kate Hoey and the rest. If they were still around, the situation would remain toxic.

CelticRambler

briany wrote: »

So, boozy flights to Malaga just got 7 euros dearer for each British passport holder?

The monetary cost is a pittance, but (a) it will help to highlight the difference between purely British nationals and their European peers when travelling as a group; and (b) it's the kind of administrative process that is so trivial it'll be forgotten about until you present your Blue Passport at immigration.

I've already seen versions of both of these scenarios in action, specifically in respect of my children and their peers. In the first case, my (Irish passport holding) children were threatened with being excluded from school tours because French children had, at that time, to apply to the local prefect for permission to leave the territory. It took a lot of effort to explain to their teachers that the French prefect did not have the legal authority to authorise and Irish citizen to leave a foreign territory - but their passports fulfilled the same role (none of the French children had passports, only ID cards). Going back a bit further, when my children were in school in the UK, they had almost no British friends. Imagine a class of children going on a trip to France/Belgium/Germany: schools will have to send a note home to the parents of all pure-blooded British students telling them that they need a visa waiver; and then a footnote - "this requirement does not apply to European immigrants"

As for (b) - Several times, I've witnessed parents being denied permission to board a plane/train with a child because they don't have the right consent form. The worst was a mother with her own children, she travelling under her maiden name, they under their father's name, and their frantic calls to the father to try and get some kind of documentation to the border agent before the boarding gate closed. How many similar incidents are we likely to seen when Wayne and Tracey turn up in Malaga with an ETIAS that they applied for three years and two months ago, now expired (or more likely just Wayne, coz Tracey checked and renewed hers the week before ... :pac: )

Whatever happens at a heavyweight economic level, this is the kind of thing that will mark the travelling British as second-class citizens, and that'll hurt.

Leroy42

The likes of Davis and IDS keep banging about a FTA yet I have never heard them explain that any such agreement necessitaes the agreeing of standards.

Thus 'taking back control ' doesn't exist.

But they haven't even begun to have that conversation in the UK. Thus, similar to the backstop, when the FTA is actually negotiated you will have a wave of uprising about how the PM could sell out the UK.

Thus, having a backstop is completely necessary as clearly the UK are not actually ready for any comprehensive deal.

fash

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

What about Remain ?

And referendum means nothing because the questions are likely to be loaded.
"Would you like to be shot in the leg or in the head ?"

Norway+ is just insane for the UK.

Norway means taking most EU rules, the Four Freedoms and Schengen, a hard border, and abandoning passporting for the service industry.

And they'd get to pay the EU as much as they do now.
Possibly more if they loose the rebate, other opt-outs, and EU only contracts.

Norway + + + maybe, but isn't being offered. The EU isn't going destroy relationships with Norway and Switzerland and other possible accession countries on the off chance appeasement might work.

In any case, any "Norway" type option is a "post WA" discussion- and not incompatible with signing the WA.

fergiesfolly

No matter what happens, you'd have to believe that the UKs relationship with it's closest EU neighbours is damaged irrevocably.
Their politicians, helped by their media have spewed vile accusations, lied to their own people and made all sorts of derogatory remarks about their neighbours.
Even if the final outcome is Remain, what EU leaders or negotiators will want to sit round a table with their UK counterparts.

judeboy101

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

What about Remain ?

And referendum means nothing because the questions are likely to be loaded.
"Would you like to be shot in the leg or in the head ?"

Norway+ is just insane for the UK.

Norway means taking most EU rules, the Four Freedoms and Schengen, a hard border, and abandoning passporting for the service industry.

And they'd get to pay the EU as much as they do now.
Possibly more if they loose the rebate, other opt-outs, and EU only contracts.

Norway + + + maybe, but isn't being offered. The EU isn't going destroy relationships with Norway and Switzerland and other possible accession countries on the off chance appeasement might work.

The remainers are the referendum crew.