AMKC wrote: » What is your take on this being extended? Do you think it is good or bad for the Country? I think during the recession it was understandable and maybe while Brexit is being sorted but then these parties need to go there separate ways and let the electorate decide who they want running the country.
AMKC wrote: » I think during the recession it was understandable and maybe while Brexit is being sorted but then these parties need to go there separate ways and let the electorate decide who they want running the country.
johnnyskeleton wrote: » I guess the electorate has, in a sense, decided that there is no one party that they want in complete control of the dail. If people are sick of a weak government, reliant on a confidence and supply system, they will have to stop voting for independents, particularly those independents who would never go into government with the three largest parties in any event! Its a shame because I normally like having a good few independents, but I think people will swing against them in the next election in favour of FG, FF and SF to varying degrees. We might also see a few more independents joining political parties - it makes no sense for the independents who currently support the government to be allowed to pretend that they aremt involved in the bad decision making
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » What is the 3rd option you think people want? Broadly what policy platform would they persue?
Matt Barrett wrote: » It's not the public wanting stability consisting of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, it's the public not wanting Fianna Fail or Fine Gael but we don't have a viable third option in the eyes of many. Fine Gael did such a poor job that they made Fianna Fail viable again. That's the real story, not the Indies or SF or PBP etc. FG should have walked at least the following two elections after the crash. We have FF/FG because the public didn't want FG. To hold on to power FG brought FF to the table.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » I think there is a large market for a party that will look after the middle rung taxpayers above all others and be straight with people and be honest about it. If a party says if you work, earn below/at/above average wage we are going to look after you I think they would do very well.
kalych wrote: » Will never work with PR-STV. The reason Ireland is stuck with FF/FG always is the transfer system. While it prevents large number of nutjobs being elected at the same time and forming a new party, it also prevents any serious change from happening also. You may vote number 1 for someone new, but most will always give 2-3 preference to some incumbent.
Matt Barrett wrote: » I think record breaking numbers of child homeless and year on year worsening crises in housing and health is pretty nutty. I wonder what the fear is of anyone outside of FF/FG? They might lead us to a financial disaster?
Political parties now almost wholly reliant on State funding Fine Gael is in similar rude financial health. It recorded total income of €6.2 million for the year, of which State funding made up almost €4.7 million. Because it is in government, and many of its TDs are Ministers and so receive the support of the civil service, Fine Gael receives less than Fianna Fáil under the leaders’ allowance and in Oireachtas supports.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/political-parties-now-almost-wholly-reliant-on-state-funding-1.3680924
Matt Barrett wrote: » Simply wondering what the fear is considering we're literally breaking records.
kalych wrote: » Certain portions of the population simply don't trust them maybe? If the ruling party is failing in certain aspects doesn't mean you absolutely have to vote for someone who "sounds" like they'll fix those few issues. That's not how people's voting habits work in my opinion. Sometimes if it sounds too good to be true it probably is. otherwise it would have been fixed already. This is evidenced by the rise and failures of populist parties around the world that cause more problems than they fix (populists in Italy and their budget issues, Orban's party in Hungary and its nationalistic stance, SYRIZA in Greece previously offering no solution other than "leave the Euro and it'll all get better", UKIP's influence transforming the Tory party to the extent that they refuse to accept reality with Brexit - it will destroy their economy, Venezuela etc.) Some of these parties are right leaning, some left. but ultimately they are all populist in nature. SF seem in that sense to be of the same ilk. Again I'm mindful that I may be completely wrong but it's my view (and my vote). Hope this answers your question of "why not?".
Matt Barrett wrote: » The fear can't be regarding the economy or societal crises when we've had, will have and are suffering through same.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Of course the fear can be regarding the economy. If we elect economic illiterates just because they are not FG/FF, we might still be in recession with massive unemployment instead of seeing EU-leading growth and all-time record employment numbers.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » This recovery is straining our economy in various ways, like demand for housing when our building industry is still only half recovered from the crash, but it is absolutely better than being still down in the economic dumps.
Matt Barrett wrote: » This is obviously not so, so what's the disconnect here? Wait another decade or so? When is the switch tripped when we'll all feel the benefit, is there such a thing? It's likely we'll continue as is until the next crash at which time we'll be told we partied or went mad depending on which party, FF/FG, has the upper hand votes wise.
Matt Barrett wrote: » Housing/health are worse than when we were 'in the economic dumps'.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Yes, that's what I said. They are worse because we are recovering in other areas. When you say we have a bad government performing badly, you are ignoring the fact that from a 2008 perspective, we have pulled off an economic miracle. You can read threads here on boards from 2008 if you don't believe me. Folks widely believed that we would default on our debt and lose our ability to borrow, that the Euro would collapse or we would be ejected from it, that the entire pubic sector would be laid off for lack of funds to pay them etc. etc. Instead we see EU leading growth and more people at work than ever in our history. This is not the record of a bad government performing badly.
Idbatterim wrote: » I hope to god that Casey joins Renua and the axis of *£$£&$&£$ loses seats and influence! Make the cornerstone of their manifesto USC abolition... Serious crackdown on crime, which can only be done by more prison spaces and overhaul of the welfare system...
Loafing Oaf wrote: » Pretty much all the alternatives we have are 'left' in one form or another. I guess there are a lot of voters out there who are vaguely dissatisfied with FF/FG but don't want that alternative.
Matt Barrett wrote: » I'd say the majority are far beyond 'vaguely dissatisfied'.
Matt Barrett wrote: » There's no viable party going to knock FF/FG off their perch. We've far too many born and bred civil way families. That's our curse. Even in the early days of the most recent melt down FF were faring better than the spooky left that will...cause us to enter a financial melt down, rise in homelessness? I forget. I'd say the majority are far beyond 'vaguely dissatisfied'. FF know they'll not sweep in to a majority, so they are best sticking with the current set up. Similarly, FG shouldn't be expecting any great strides beyond where they are. That's all this renewed agreement is about. Talk of security, is referencing their own interests and security. Proof, FG partnering with FF. The party that nearly had us all 'eating out of bins' is suddenly good enough to co-govern and bring stability. As I've said before it'll be some laugh reading any FG propaganda in the run up to the next election. With rents on the increase and the emergencies and crisis becoming part of the scenery, sure, lets keep this brand of 'stability'. In FG's desperation to maintain power they brought FF back from the near dead. That's one of the legacies of Kenny and Varadkar. Not that FF wouldn't have been back but we might have had a longer break, (the chance for a new party/parties to get a look in?). All derived from FG doing such a poor job and the public being more than 'vaguely dissatisfied' with them to give them a majority.
