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M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

marno21

A desperately needed scheme in planning according to Michael Nolan of the TII at a recent Engineers Ireland conference.

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prunudo

Sorry I have to disagree, it has everything to do with the n11. There is a proposal to upgrade it, part of the upgrade could involve adding a 3rd lane. Can we not discuss whether this 3rd lane should be a bus lane or a general traffic lane.
To understand the need for a bus lane I don't think its unreasonable to mention the current use of buses and how it affects towns along the route. There is clearly a case for increased bus frequency and adding a bus lane instead of general lane is an option that should be looked at.

prunudo

Just a reminder that the consultation meeting with the engineers is on today in the Glenview hotel between 12 and 8pm.

tonkpills

Looks like some content went live today n11m11.ie

prunudo

So, popped into the presentation on the way home from work. Very early days so no real plans as such. Few graphics, aerial views of route etc.
It seems that it is a very broad scope and there isn't really a plan at all and the idea of the meeting and consultation period to get ideas of the issues, what people would and would not like.
The engineers/consultants seemed quite coy in what they were saying (or weren't saying). Certainly felt like they were listening to ideas rather than saying what could/would happen.
I think that it may develop into something much bigger than an n11 upgrade and focus on all transport needs for commuting to Dublin from the southeast.

They will take on board any submissions and design a plan around that. Then they will have another public consultation at that point.

marno21

I was expecting as such, it's very early days yet and they were only appointed a few weeks ago

Here's the foundation of what'll be happening.. http://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/strategic-reports/M11_N11_Needs_Assessment_Report.pdf

loyatemu

there are existing, reasonably detailed plans for widening J5-J7 including parallel collector roads - is this still happening, or has it been scrapped in favour of this larger plan?

prunudo

loyatemu wrote: »

there are existing, reasonably detailed plans for widening J5-J7 including parallel collector roads - is this still happening, or has it been scrapped in favour of this larger plan?

The person I was talking to didn't mention it. It seems like it was an overall look at the issues along the route and everything was on the table.
What they did say though was they'd be looking at 'smart use' and things like average speed limits and ramp metering could be part of any solutions to managing the volumes but as I said in my previous post, I got the impression they were being coy in what they were saying.

prunudo

I wonder would an auxiliary lane like they have on the m50 work on this route. There seems to be an awful of people who join at one junction and leave at the next. A huge amount of local traffic movements mixing with the mainline.
Would it work doubling it up as a buslane or would human behaviour just end up with it becoming a 3rd general traffic lane.

I see it in the mornings northbound particularly between jn 12 to 11, jn8 to 7 and jn7 to 6 (especially with the Enniskerry turnoff)

incentsitive

I wonder is a lot of the problem the hill before Kilmac. A lot of cars can't get up there easily and this definitely backs up the traffic. I think that causes a lot of the tailbacks.
Although the worst of all must be whatever genuis decided that a petrol station entrance in Kilmac directly off the N11 was a good idea. Or maybe it was a good big envelope....

prunudo

incentsitive wrote: »

I wonder is a lot of the problem the hill before Kilmac. A lot of cars can't get up there easily and this definitely backs up the traffic. I think that causes a lot of the tailbacks.
Although the worst of all must be whatever genuis decided that a petrol station entrance in Kilmac directly off the N11 was a good idea. Or maybe it was a good big envelope....

They made a mess of original design, should have bypassed Kilmac and not gone through it.

Macy0161

I think the traffic flow reports have shown it's Bray South that's the real issue. Petrol station was already there, but they should've CPO'd or designed it properly, but I guess this was before Coynes Cross, Newtown etc. Next online fuel was Barndarrig iirc?

Northbound is also a clusterf**k for people parking all over the place, ignoring double yellows, queing back on the road (when there is forecourt space) etc at the northbound petrol station. Doesn't effect the main road, but does effect those attempting to join at that junction.

prunudo

There's so many issues with the whole route, not just over capacity but also bad design and driver behaviour. The council can't keep giving planning to more housing without improving the infrastructure. With so many new developments being built and more in the pipeline in the towns of North Wicklow I hate to see what it will be like in a years time.

incentsitive

jvan wrote: »

There's so many issues with the whole route, not just over capacity but also bad design and driver behaviour. The council can't keep giving planning to more housing without improving the infrastructure. With so many new developments being built and more in the pipeline in the towns of North Wicklow I hate to see what it will be like in a years time.

There's a great thing called bus lanes, we need much more of them! Lets be honest, who wouldn't want to get on a bus in Wicklow or wherever and not sit in a car. I know it would need integration and doesn't suit everyone, but at least it would be a starting point.

loyatemu

jvan wrote: »

I wonder would an auxiliary lane like they have on the m50 work on this route. There seems to be an awful of people who join at one junction and leave at the next. A huge amount of local traffic movements mixing with the mainline.
Would it work doubling it up as a buslane or would human behaviour just end up with it becoming a 3rd general traffic lane.

I see it in the mornings northbound particularly between jn 12 to 11, jn8 to 7 and jn7 to 6 (especially with the Enniskerry turnoff)

the previous reports recommended aux lanes between junctions 6 and 8 to remove some of the local traffic and close the various LILOs.

2010 report
http://www.derekmitchell.ie/wp-content/up/07-139-039-M11-N11-Study-EOC-Mar-2010-Final-NRA-Approved1.pdf...

2017 report
http://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/strategic-reports/M11_N11_Needs_Assessment_Report.pdf

prunudo

Here's a copy of the leaflets they were giving out the other night.

BigMoose

Regarding the number of people joining one junction and leaving another, I see an awful lot leaving and rejoining at the same junction just to skip about 10 cars... They really need to do something about that, like on ramp flow control to make it not worth while.

prunudo

BigMoose wrote: »

Regarding the number of people joining one junction and leaving another, I see an awful lot leaving and rejoining at the same junction just to skip about 10 cars... They really need to do something about that, like on ramp flow control to make it not worth while.

Pet hate of mine, that plus the ones using the hard shoulder too.

wowy

Road improvements to separate southbound traffic on the N11 (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/road-improvements-to-separate-southbound-traffic-on-the-n11-1.3744349

prunudo

wowy wrote: »

Road improvements to separate southbound traffic on the N11 (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/road-improvements-to-separate-southbound-traffic-on-the-n11-1.3744349

Nothing really new in that, just some clumsy words and errors. Hope the segregation is better than just finger barriers! Also eastern carriageway is southbound unless the poles have been on the piss over the Christmas period.

incentsitive

If you are that desperate to save 10 cars, you really need to look at your stress levels im traffic! Why would you be bothered

Thud

They stuck the finger barriers up fairly quickly where the M50 merges with the M11 last month hopefully they can get the Kilmac ones up reasonably quickly too.
You can be sure some idiot will try driving through them though.

marno21

https://www.thejournal.ie/n11-traffic-delays-4480602-Feb2019/

Stephen Donnelly has the drone out to showcase the N11 mess at peak times.

Good to see some politician actively behind a road upgrade. Quite a lot of political interventions with these schemes recently has been to try to obstruct them.

Thud

Thud wrote: »

They stuck the finger barriers up fairly quickly where the M50 merges with the M11 last month hopefully they can get the Kilmac ones up reasonably quickly too.
You can be sure some idiot will try driving through them though.

Still no sign of these at Kilmac.

I did see some guy drive up the hard shoulder and cut across the gravelly bit onto the M11 just before the finger barriers where the M50/M11 join the other day....not an unmarked Garda car unless they drive a convertible WX reg Audi A4

prunudo

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/n11-traffic-delays-4480602-Feb2019/

Stephen Donnelly has the drone out to showcase the N11 mess at peak times.

Good to see some politician actively behind a road upgrade. Quite a lot of political interventions with these schemes recently has been to try to obstruct them.

In fairness to local councillor for Greystones, Derek Mitchell (fg) is fairly active on the needs for the commuters of north Wicklow too.

marno21

jvan wrote: »

In fairness to local councillor for Greystones, Derek Mitchell (fg) is fairly active on the needs for the commuters of north Wicklow too.

Wasn't targetting anyone in particular, but there seems to be little in the way of political support behind most road projects bar a few notable examples. If these projects were being repeatedly brought up it may push them closer to being politically relevant. The N11/M11 scheme is also in Shane Ross' backyard so it should be somewhat in his mind.

prunudo

Didn't take that you were targeting anyone from your post at all and also to say I've no affliction to either party, was just sharing that on a local level and maybe beyond the reach of national media there are councillors trying to push the issue.

Macy0161

I've only seen/ read of Whitmore pushing public transport/ bus lanes*. Extra lanes is just short term fix - like the N11 aux lane, the M50 widening etc. Politicians never seem to lead on this - short term populism of new roads rather than long term solutions.

*I've seen others pushing trains and dart improvements, but specifically on the N11 upgrade I haven't seen anyone else, but open to correction,

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

Bray-Coyne's Cross upgrade and Oilgate-Rosslare are both starting planning in 2019

I'm awaiting Bray-Coyne's with excitement. It'll be very interesting to see how they deal with the many constraining factors - trees, petrol stations, twisty alignment, poor side road layouts.

prunudo

True, Whitmore has been quite vocal too. There may be others aswell but haven't seen them myself although with the modern world of targeted ads/posts by social media I'm sceptical of seeing one persons posts more than another. But thats going way off topic.

Chris_5339762

The only problem about going three lanes from the M11/50 junction down to Coynes Cross (or wherever a three lane bit ends with the GOTD issues), is that the 2 lane section of M50 going northbound in the mornings will cause a severe bottleneck.