Negative_G wrote: » So instead of the melodramatics why dont you spell out what you believe he brings to the team. Is it asking to much to expect a midfielder to turn carry the ball forward? I dont expect him to be iniesta or Xavi, a bit of progression would be great. Obviously he does the job that klopp wants him to do and that's great but he is rubbish to watch. Henderson for me lacks any real quality and doesn't excel in any one area as far as I'm concerned. Maybe the old argument that he "covers a lot of ground" endears him to people. The first thing that comes to my mind when I see his name on the teamsheet is slow, drawn out play and knowing he will spend more time playing 5 yard passes sitting between the two CBs than trying to move the ball forward.
Fromvert wrote: » The Henderson only passes backwards/sideways is a myth with the most simple stats (you'd have to dive deeper into them to really compare) but on the simple did his pass go backwards, forwards or sideways he's slightly behind to Gini and Milner and ahead of the likes of Fernandinho, Jorginho etc.https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/truth-liverpools-jordan-henderson-forward-15466768 Henderson is this team's Dirk Kuyt or Lucas Leiva absolutely slated by half the fan base and appreciated by the other half, both ended up being more liked at the end of their time at Liverpool and Henderson will be the same in my opinion.
RoboKlopp wrote: » That's the most important point. Klopp knows more than the average punter I'm guessing. You think Klopp cares if people think it's rubbish to watch Henderson? He does a job for him, and he obviously rates him doing that job. Otherwise he wouldn't pick him.
Iused2likebusts wrote: » He constantly makes himself available to receive a pass. At 1 0 last night in the last 10 minutes and with napoli pressing high he kept showing for the ball off the keeper and back 4 while under pressure and got us out. He is very good at breaking up the play. He keeps possession well in midfield. I think he is quite good at most things but not particularly excellent at anything. Overall a very good team player and someone Id feel more comfortable starting a big game over fabinho based on what we have seen so far.
Charlie19 wrote: » I'd like to avoid Juve for now at least. and maybe Barca.
NIMAN wrote: » Juve perhaps, but that Liverpool frontline would create numerous chances against barca defence.
Gbear wrote: » There's an archetype of player like Henderson, where a good, successful manager, picks unpopular or understated players consistently even though if you had a man off the street tell you what he's about they'd say he's ****e. The sensible thing to do at that point is to admit the limits of your knowledge of football. It's well and good debating about the minutia but when the facts are so clearly playing out against your argument - ie, a class manager picks said player consistently, particularly targeting him for big games, and that we're doing better every season and having our best season in decades thus far, it's not for the craic, it's not as a favour or because he has blackmail on him, and it's not because the manager can't see what some think is so obvious. It's the opposite. A manager who knows what it takes to win things puts his trust in this guy. If he was some kind of pub player, not only would he put his overwhelming trust in him for big games, but he wouldn't play him, he'd give the captaincy to Milner or Van Dijk, he'd ship him out at the earliest opportunity. Klopp has no problem ****ing players off if they're not up to it. Karius goes bust, and he's done, he ****s Balotelli off straight away and Sakho gets dumped his arse at a time when we're hardly a defensive powerhouse. If you were arguing from a position of knowledge and were making decent arguments, then it might be churlish to bring up a tautological argument as to why Henderson is good, but you're not. You're making arguments that make a bunch of assumptions about football that I don't think you can back up. What I think on his play is that not only do people delude themselves into thinking he plays the ball sideways or backwards more often than he really does, but that that isn't a problem. Again, if it was, Klopp would **** him out of it. We make up most of our ground along the flanks with two athletic attacking full backs who're good footballers, a supporting midfielder who's usually Milner, Bobby and the forward on that flank. Good teams (ie ones that aren't non-league) will not make it easy to just pass through their midfield.
Negative_G wrote: » Ah okay, so we are back to this old chestnut - "You don't know better than klopp". I think that's plainly obvious to anyone really. Youre not the user that used the "I play/played at a decent level" to try and cement his argument are you? Because your post has a big hint of that attitude lingering around it. Now that you've used up your daily allotment of asterix marks perhaps you'd like to discuss what you think he brings to the game. If your point is that Klopp thinks hes great so he must be doing something right and that I am not a PL manager so therefore my opinions are null and void then great, message received, loud and clear. Move on.
ElTel wrote: » I can't really disagree with any of this but you have to put it into context as to the way we now play. Our attack is the front three and our "cheating" FBs 90% of the time and his discipline with the safe passes and blocking passing lanes is precisely the reason he gets selected. Could you trust Keita (say) to not play even one risky forward pass in a match that could give the opposition a great counter-attack opportunity (because our FBs are pushed forward)?
Pyjamarama wrote: » Also its far from just Klopp who rates him. I still maintain that had he not got suspended we'd have won the league.
Pyjamarama wrote: » Henderson is really reliable in his positioning. Rarely gives the ball away, follows instructions really well and has the respect of his teammates. Its not rocket science... He can be frustrating sometimes as he isn't always as dynamic with the ball as we as fans would like but sometimes the short pass to the side is whats called for. If he looks up and sees that the defence has all avenues covered then trying to shift them over a bit and see if anyone doesn't react quickly enough is the correct thing to do. Sometimes its ok to have a water carrier on the team and thats what Henderson is. Also its far from just Klopp who rates him. I still maintain that had he not got suspended we'd have won the league.
Negative_G wrote: » While I wouldnt go quite that far I would agree that he was excellent that season and far more dynamic as you alluded to. He is a water carrier, thats a fact.
facehugger99 wrote: » He’s a fantastic player. A succession of elite level managers haven’t just had him in their teams, they’ve made him their captain. The fact you can’t see his worth, isn’t anyone else’s problem but yours.
Agent Coulson wrote: » Really! You felt the need to say that.
Negative_G wrote: » I find (and perhaps some of the resident PL standard managers/players here can clarify) that when Liverpool receive possession deep the formation tends to shift from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 with the FBs pushing forward and Firmino dropping deep. Henderson drops into the "QB" position between the two CBs. That's my perception of it. So we have plenty of bodies in Midfield while still stretching the defence further up the field becausd defenders generally don't adopt a high line against us. So it stands to reason that there are usually plenty of bodies in MF but yet the outlet is almost always sideways to the CBs who recycle it to the FBs further up the field on the wings. Keita, from the little I've seen seems to be well able to find passes between the lines from midfield to attack. Obviously there is an increasing risk when trying these type of passes further up the field as more players are committed forward. Van Dijk plays far more accurate long diagonal passes to the FBs than Henderson despite Henderson being usually not more than a few yards away. I accept he's doing a job and following orders but it would be great to see him carry the ball forward and to look up and forward more often as opposed to taking the more conservative option.
shamrock55 wrote: » Ah jesus what precious pc line of yours did I cross now, I said the word concentration camp in a slightly humorous context and your all over it, get a grip of yourself lad
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