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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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hans aus dtschl

snotboogie wrote: »

From those pictures it looks like Douglas is getting a massive public transport overhaul. Pity is looks like a huge expansion of BE bus lanes rather than an actual BRT, which they should 100% go for if they are closing the Douglas Rd to cars.

To be even more simplistic about it: how do you remove cars from Douglas Road when houses are directly on it? Seems optimistic at best.

Tomtom364

marno21 wrote: »

Not sure how legitimate these are, but these are some photomontages created for Jacobs contribution to the CMATS

I'm a particular fan of the Luas on the disused Blackrock line, the Luas outside Reardens and the Viaduct greenway

http://3ddesignshop.com/jacobs/

Now bring us the report.......

Anyone happen to download these before the company realised their error and disabled the URL?

snotboogie

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Depends on the scope of the Transportation Study though. If it's a mid-to-long term study it shouldn't leave out Ballincollig or Douglas IMO.

From those pictures it looks like Douglas is getting a massive public transport overhaul. Pity is looks like a huge expansion of BE bus lanes rather than an actual BRT, which they should 100% go for if they are closing the Douglas Rd to cars.

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Depends on the scope of the Transportation Study though. If it's a mid-to-long term study it shouldn't leave out Ballincollig or Douglas IMO.

The scope will be from publication out to 2036.

snotboogie

Cork Savings Bank transformed into UCC’s Centre for Executive Education

It’s a 19th century fore-runner of the yet-to be located major new 21st century UCC Business School, due to bring 4,000 to 5,000 students to a new Cork city campus in the next few years, with three locations still competing to house the huge investment, including at the docklands, and riverside settings, such as Union Quay/South Terrace. Those in the know say a decision on the new Business School and further, deeper intertwining of gown and town, may be made by Christmas.

AugustusMinimus

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd imagine somewhere around CIT would be the Western Terminus, Ballincollig would be a 'possible future extension'.

The plan is to have a stop in the Science and Technology Park as well.

hans aus dtschl

cgcsb wrote: »

I'd imagine somewhere around CIT would be the Western Terminus, Ballincollig would be a 'possible future extension'.

Depends on the scope of the Transportation Study though. If it's a mid-to-long term study it shouldn't leave out Ballincollig or Douglas IMO.

cgcsb

I'd imagine somewhere around CIT would be the Western Terminus, Ballincollig would be a 'possible future extension'.

marno21

How about splitting the route west of UCC like the Luas Red Line where it splits at Belgard to serve both Tallaght and Saggart? They could merge around UCC and continue along to City Centre-Kent-Docklands-Blackrock-Mahon.

hans aus dtschl

TheChizler wrote: »

Exactly, no need to cram every possible stop into one route.

This makes sense but at present one of the big issues with Cork traffic is the lack of interaction between East and West, with big population centres on both sides traversing the centre, leading to heavy pressure on the N40.
The East would have reasonably good infrastructure to the centre in this design, but it's a shame not to have any aspiration of a cross-city link other than bus.

That's reading very heavily into a tiny amount of information mind you.

Edit:
I wonder if they think that the "Reardens" tram can turn singers corner in order to be cross city.

EdgeCase

That would be ironed out by technical and engineering designs. This is more about the big picture.

hans aus dtschl

cgcsb wrote: »

Regarding the Washington st tram, s tram alignment involving 2 lanes of traffic in between the two tracks is quite unusual, normally the tracks are aligned to the centre of the road. There is no example of this in Dublin and I'm nit sure there is in the rest of Europe, at least I don't think I've ever seen one.
The design means no realistic prospect of parking or loading bays.

Yes, good catch.
That's possibly just the graphic design company's mistake.

TheChizler

Deleted User wrote: »

It needs to be designed with a view to more than one route though.

Exactly, no need to cram every possible stop into one route.

[Deleted User]

TheChizler wrote: »

The danger is that by facilitating more people and connections you might actually make it less useful as the route becomes too circuitous.

It needs to be designed with a view to more than one route though.

cgcsb

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I actually really like this design: a fully integrated rail system east of the city centre. It looks like the proposed Washington Street tram has no comparable terminus.

A lot more effort would perhaps see a tram terminus at the Beamish & Crawford counting house via Wandesford quay but that beamish site's probably totally private anyway I think.

Regarding the Washington st tram, s tram alignment involving 2 lanes of traffic in between the two tracks is quite unusual, normally the tracks are aligned to the centre of the road. There is no example of this in Dublin and I'm nit sure there is in the rest of Europe, at least I don't think I've ever seen one.
The design means no realistic prospect of parking or loading bays.

Also it's a shame the capital scheme wasn't built to allow the luas go through it from Washington St onto Patrick st so that it could easily head eastwards towards Kent.

The route will now will be very slow making the turn from Washington St to Patrick St. It looks like the plan is also to use McCurtain St and Alfred St which will leave the bus station kind of high and dry, unless the bus station is moved to a more compact facility on the site of Kent station which would offer better connections alround

The single track luas at underpasses on the old railway alignment will be a future source of contention. As the system grows this will become a key bottleneck and some extremely expensive engineering solution will be put in place instead of just now putting one track in a cut and cover tunnel and have the other one above.

Photos seem to indicate an east-west line but no mention of whether or not a north-south line will be included, perhaps Blackpool Commuter Rail station to the airport via City Centre and South link or some such route.

Pics indicate more cycle tracks and bus priority to be welcomed. However the expanded commuter rail service seems to be operated by hybrid trains rather than full electrification. all in all though, it looks good and is a readical improvement on the current Public Transport set up in Cork.

TheChizler

The danger is that by facilitating more people and connections you might actually make it less useful as the route becomes too circuitous.

[Deleted User]

marno21 wrote: »

Also it looks the Luas is to run past Kent Station and across the Lee there onto the Docklands.

It would have to connect to Kent station, to facilitate transfers from bus and the Blarney/Blackpool rail link

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Out past the colleges and onto Ballincollig you'd assume.

Not sure how they plan to route this though. CIT, UCC, CUH are all big trip generators along there.

That's the problem out west. Bishopstown/Curraheen Road route is needed for CUH but possibly avoids CIT by too far and is quite circuitous for Ballincollig people...looks like it might need to fork in two.

It's a little bit of a shame that it looks like Douglas is not getting some kind of public transport upgrade aspiration, going by those pics. Bearing in mind that such a plan would be long-term after all.

Also just to point out the obvious that this is also not a Mahon-Ballincollig direct link.

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I actually really like this design: a fully integrated rail system east of the city centre. It looks like the proposed Washington Street tram has no comparable terminus.

Out past the colleges and onto Ballincollig you'd assume.

Not sure how they plan to route this though. CIT, UCC, CUH are all big trip generators along there.

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Also it looks the Luas is to run past Kent Station and across the Lee there onto the Docklands.

I actually really like this design: a fully integrated rail system east of the city centre. It looks like the proposed Washington Street tram has no comparable terminus.

A lot more effort would perhaps see a tram terminus at the Beamish & Crawford counting house via Wandesford quay but that beamish site's probably totally private anyway I think.

marno21

Also it looks the Luas is to run past Kent Station and across the Lee there onto the Docklands.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

Not sure how legitimate these are, but these are some photomontages created for Jacobs contribution to the CMATS

I'm a particular fan of the Luas on the disused Blackrock line, the Luas outside Reardens and the Viaduct greenway

http://3ddesignshop.com/jacobs/

Now bring us the report.......

That has the Douglas Rd totally dedicated to bus lanes....

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Not sure how legitimate these are, but these are some photomontages created for Jacobs contribution to the CMATS

I'm a particular fan of the Luas on the disused Blackrock line, the Luas outside Reardens and the Viaduct greenway

http://3ddesignshop.com/jacobs/

Now bring us the report.......

Blackrock road station might need to go to short single-track section to achieve dual purpose usage.

I remember somebody I know seeing studies on attitudes of homeowners along the Blackrock line approx 20 years ago. There was fairly strong opposition to reversion of the line to motorised/mechanised public transport, as far as Douglas(ish). After Douglas, people became more in favour of the reversion to public transport. People will want to keep the greenway too, I think.

The only way to reconcile this is to keep/make space for both.
Skehard road tunnel would need to be redone to fit trams underneath. But they could run the tram at-grade there, rather than in the cutting.

It's very irritating that the report is delayed yet again.

TheChizler

marno21 wrote: »

Not sure how legitimate these are, but these are some photomontages created for Jacobs contribution to the CMATS

I'm a particular fan of the Luas on the disused Blackrock line, the Luas outside Reardens and the Viaduct greenway

http://3ddesignshop.com/jacobs/

Now bring us the report.......

I'm seriously sceptical of the scale on the Blackrock Line picture, to my eye it looks like they've visually squeezed two trams and a very wide path into half the space it would actually need. One would have to assume that Jacobs know what they're doing though...

Former_Blackrock_Station%2C_Cork._-_geograph.org.uk_-_76745.jpg

Former_Blackrock_Station%2C_Cork._-_geograph.org.uk_-_76745.jpg

Does it look like they're proposing merging the lines as they go under the bridges?

marno21

Not sure how legitimate these are, but these are some photomontages created for Jacobs contribution to the CMATS

I'm a particular fan of the Luas on the disused Blackrock line, the Luas outside Reardens and the Viaduct greenway

http://3ddesignshop.com/jacobs/

Now bring us the report.......

[Deleted User]

Let's not derail. I just experienced it for the first time yesterday and found it a bit pointless, from a pedestrian point of view.

Is there any developments in plan for North Main St? It's a sorry state at present

snotboogie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Regardless of this...

Holy crap but town was dead today. 2 weeks before Christmas and no buzz at all around the city centre (I know it's a Monday, but sill and all like)

Lads there’s 1,600 posts of this exact back and forth in that thread....

questionmark?

Mardyke wrote: »

Would ya believe there is a thread all about it!

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057854395/1

It's basically to annoy a few traders.

Hopefully they fully ban cars from Oliver Plunkett street as well. Always found it nuts that cars drive down that street.

Frostybrew

Deleted User wrote: »

So all the bus stops along Merchant's quay blocking traffic are a bit of a cock up so?

The only thing that blocks traffic on Merchant's Quay is other traffic. Mainly cars.

Mardyke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Regardless of this...

Holy crap but town was dead today. 2 weeks before Christmas and no buzz at all around the city centre (I know it's a Monday, but sill and all like)

Everyone was in John Graces eating fried chicken.