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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Rhineshark

kuro68k wrote: »

The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.

1. The EU
2. Remainers
3. Ireland
4. Corbyn

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Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Tweet from Guy Verhofstadt. Everyone's getting confused........

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1072129699449589760

From that tweet chain, a yougov poll graphic:

Anyone spot whats missing?

but they included the Shetland Islands

BonnieSituation

Rjd2 wrote: »

Jobs first Brexit from Labour has the potential to annoy even more than "the will of the people" from Mogg etc the more I hear it. Utter bollocks.

It's a strong and stable mantra to be fair.

---

Still can't figure out how keir Starmer is keeping his mouth shut after that Corbyn gibberish.

briany

McGiver wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1072127158292750338

I mean...seriously? Backstop is "unless and until", it's not indefinite. There's nothing to add to it, it clearly says that applies until UK can solve the border issue with magic technology.

Let's say that the UK had a workable technological solution. Could the EU just arbitrarily say, "Not good enough"? Like, is there a feeling on the UK side that the EU could/would kibosh any technological proposals no matter how good they were, thereby keeping the backstop arrangement going indefinitely?

VinLieger

Deleted User wrote: »

Tweet from Guy Verhofstadt. Everyone's getting confused........

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1072129699449589760

Everyone claiming we would be screwed at the 11th hour can eat their hats now i believe

[Deleted User]

Tweet from Guy Verhofstadt. Everyone's getting confused........

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1072129699449589760

McGiver

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1072127158292750338

She said 'risks are too great' and she is going back to Brussels to secure 'legally-binding assurance' we won't be trapped in backstop indefinitely

I mean...seriously? Backstop is "unless and until", it's not indefinite. There's nothing to add to it, it clearly says that applies until UK can solve the border issue with magic technology.

Nody

J Mysterio wrote: »

Its scary stuff. I have no words left... What could happen next?!

Well knowing May I'd not be surprised if she insists EU should pay UK for the benefit of remaining or some such...

briany

J Mysterio wrote: »

Its scary stuff. I have no words left... What could happen next?!

Eastenders has nothing on the drama that Brexit has become.

robindch

SimonTemplar wrote: »

God knows what she'll say at 15:30.

"I've had enough of you lot, I'm resigning and moving to Ibiza."

VinLieger

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair enough, the EU know they haven't prepared so is well placed to call chicken on that.

This is the hilarious problem, they have been so public about everything they have done regards the negotiations and everything they haven't done to as regards preparations that they literally have no cards left to play. They are constantly showing their hand to everyone else sitting at the table.

They think threatening us with no deal implications will work while not having a clue we've spent 2 years preparing behind the scenes for that very eventuality. It will hurt us but nowhere near as much as they think and definitely nowhere nears as much as it will actually hurt them.

Plus in the case of no deal weve got 26 mates looking out for us still that have had our back the entire time, they've got nobody.

ancapailldorcha

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Sturgeon seems keen to call their bluff.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1072119477758758917

Probably the only party leader left worthy of the title in British politics.

SimonTemplar

VinLieger wrote: »

briany wrote: »

If there'd been an order of preference and a transferable vote, then *maybe* that could have worked, but UK voters on average wouldn't have the patience or political education to research all the choices on offer.

Thus showing up the problem with the whole thing in the first place, reducing such a complex question with the myriad of variables affecting it down to a simple yes or no and requiring a simply 50.1% majority is insanity

And that can be traced back to Cameron's hubris when he assumed Leave would never won.

J Mysterio

SimonTemplar wrote: »

God knows what she'll say at 15:30. She has already stated multiple times that the WA is final and can't be renegotiated. Will it be another u turn?

Never thought this shambles would turn into an even more chaotic shambles.

Its scary stuff. I have no words left... What could happen next?!

robindch

Rjd2 wrote: »

Jobs first Brexit from Labour has the potential to annoy even more than "the will of the people" from Mogg etc the more I hear it. Utter bollocks.

That and "frictionless trade" - whatever *that* means.

Honestly, why can't people understand that sloganeering and legal prose are different?

briany

listermint wrote: »

Anyone claiming that UK IP will suddenly get widespread backing doesn't have a clue about the reality of it.

So, who will Conservative and Labour Brexiteers vote for if they end up feeling sold out by their traditional representatives? The BNP? Would they form their own party based on Britain's withdrawal from the EU? Wait a minute...

Would they disengage from the political process entirely? That could be a dangerous development because it might mean they just choose to express themselves in a more direct, possibly disruptive, way. Would they just get back in their box and get on with things? Doubtful, as the cat seems fairly well out of the bag at this stage.

VinLieger

briany wrote: »

If there'd been an order of preference and a transferable vote, then *maybe* that could have worked, but UK voters on average wouldn't have the patience or political education to research all the choices on offer.

Thus showing up the problem with the whole thing in the first place, reducing such a complex question with the myriad of variables affecting it down to a simple yes or no and requiring a simply 50.1% majority is insanity

LuckyLloyd

devnull wrote: »

May is going to demand removal of the backstop according to reports or say there will be no deal.

Meanwhile, some Tory MPs are going to try and stop her calling off the vote.

Honestly, at this stage it's laughable.

Fair enough, the EU know they haven't prepared so is well placed to call chicken on that.

SimonTemplar

God knows what she'll say at 15:30. She has already stated multiple times that the WA is final and can't be renegotiated. Will it be another u turn?

Never thought this shambles would turn into an even more chaotic shambles.

devnull

May is going to demand removal of the backstop according to reports or say there will be no deal.

Some Tory MPs are going to try and stop her calling off the vote.

Meanwhile, Labour are still living in fantasy land and talking about being in government on Wednesday.

Honestly, at this stage it's laughable.

listermint

bilston wrote: »

A second referendum could be very dangerous. While it may become the only option, I think other alternatives need to be looked at first...and I say that as a Remainer. A narrow Remain victory could leave some very angry people out there who might mobilise behind the likes of Yaxley Lennon.

First try and get a Parliament in place whereby a majority for one outcome or the other exists. To do that you need a General Election. If that doesn't work then go back to the people.

There is no evidence of wide spread or even some spread of support for UKIP or that little ignorant half Irish man whos name i shalt not repeat. Despite numerous attempts at organising demonstrations or rallies over the last year they simply cannot get the numbers at all .

Anyone claiming that UK IP will suddenly get widespread backing doesn't have a clue about the reality of it.

ECO_Mental

Just reading an article on the BBC and came across this quote from an anonymous source within the Democratic Unionist Party, in Northern Ireland about this whole Brexit and sums it up all very nicely the DUP

"This is a battle of who blinks first - and we've cut off our eyelids."

:D that would be hilarious only for this being so serious

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46488619

You cant win with these DUP guys with attitudes like this.

briany

VinLieger wrote: »

Considering that everyone who voted to leave voted for something slightly different, they should have had more like 21 choices, remain and the 20 or so different brexit options

If there'd been an order of preference and a transferable vote, then *maybe* that could have worked, but UK voters on average wouldn't have the patience or political education to research all the choices on offer.

Rjd2

J Mysterio wrote: »

This is chaos. The 3:30pm statement is May's final throw of the dice.

I think she will call a second referendum - her deal or no Brexit - but who knows?

She won't call a second referendum yet, heck any Tory leader who would do such a thing would be lynched. Its not implausible that given how chaotic things are the vote might even have to go ahead.

J Mysterio

This is chaos. The 3:30pm statement is May's final throw of the dice.

I think she will call a second referendum - her deal or no Brexit - but who knows?

Rjd2

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The calls for an election from Labour are simply a ploy to get into power. That's it.

The better Brexit rhetoric is simply nonsense. We know the outcomes now. Gardiner's prattling last night on Channel 4 just shows how desperate Labour is to have its cake and eat it.

I actually think Labour pleading for a general election here is doing them no favors, its looks as self-serving and cynical as what Johnson has been doing over the last few years. The vast majority of Tories want Brexit in one shape or other so May and any other leader has to commit to that, but that's not the case for Labour, their is no political hay to be made with their current stance.

Its all very odd to watch indeed.

briany

VinLieger wrote: »

Indeed, it has to be remain or leave(with current deal)

That depends on whether UK parliament gets around to voting on May's deal themselves. If they shoot it down, then the choice should be a straight one between No Deal or Remain, IMO.

Professor Moriarty

VinLieger wrote: »

Considering that everyone who voted to leave voted for something slightly different, they should have had more like 21 choices, remain and the 20 or so different brexit options

True! The 2016 referendum would have far more validity if a negotiated deal had also been included. But that horse has bolted.

VinLieger

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

They should have had three choices in the first place.

Considering that everyone who voted to leave voted for something slightly different, they should have had more like 21 choices, remain and the 20 or so different brexit options

Russman

serfboard wrote: »

It's Ref2 with three options (pick one) for me: Deal, No Deal, Remain.

If they were to do that, would one of the options need to command 50% + 1, or would it be like their general elections with first past post ? I can't see something that only got, say, 40% commanding much authority when the other options would have 60% between them.

VinLieger

briany wrote: »

You can't have a referendum with 3 options because you invite the potential scenario where Remain wins but only has an explicit mandate from, say, 40 percent of the electorate. You better believe that every single Brexiteer of influence would have a year of field days with that. And Remainers would make a similar political noise if Leave won with 40 percent. Disaffected wouldn't be a strong enough adjective for the level of anger when a clear minority gets to decide the course of the UK, possibly for the foreseeable future.

Maybe in a less-charged issue you could have 3 choices, but not this one.

Indeed, it has to be remain or leave(with current deal)