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Child Item

Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

jjmcclure

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/homeless-mumofseven-margaret-cash-appears-in-court-over-stealing-300-worth-of-clothes-from-penneys-37434491.html

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gormdubhgorm

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

Margaret should have her own radio show
Darcy out mags in

There will be a John Connors documentary - a three parter with Cash. Is my guess.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No you were not.I pointed out for all the anti-traveller negatives about traveller culture, in general travellers are not part-time parents.Which is the blight on the settled community (now the social norm).That point maybe too subtle for some to digest?

Traveller women are full-time mothers because they have little choice. Their culture often takes girls out of school at at early age for fear that they will mix with settled boys. Barely literate, often with no formal qualifications, they are typically married off to first or second cousins, sometimes at an age when they are not yet legally adults. And once a Traveller girl is married, her husband rules the roost. It is a highly patriarchal and controlling culture.

Many young Traveller women wind up uneducated, unemployable, trapped in a caravan with kids, and frequently subjected to domestic abuse. In studies, 60 to 80 percent of married Traveller women report being abused by their husbands, and the violence is often more severe and sustained than what settled women report.

The only remarkable thing is that you're now on here extolling the virtues of a culture that treats women as a combination of brood mares and punching bags.

Deebles McBeebles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

There will be a John Connors documentary - a three parter with Cash. Is my guess.

I'd prefer to see a wider ranging one involving Paul Williams. He must have some old mates still in CAB.

KrustyUCC

I doubt RTE would allow that wider ranging one to air unfortunately

gormdubhgorm

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

The only remarkable thing is that you're now on here extolling the virtues of a culture that treats women as a combination of brood mares and punching bags.

Travelllers leaving school without a proper education etc are negatives.
But comments such as the above about punching bags are enter confirmation bias at best, or negative stereotyping and prejudice at worst.

Your logic is if one travller commits violence towards a women, ergo they must all do it.
Do you realise how dangerous and silly that sounds?

But there are positives in the traveller culture how the family unit looks after each other, veneration of the elderly. They would not fire thier elderly into nursing homes either
A strong moral code (which most adhere to) and a rich oral history.

Most of the arguments made against travellers on this thread are oh there are few travellers that do xyz crime therefore they must ALL do it.
As I said earlier if Clondalkin declared itself a separate ethnic group would they be all branded as criminals?

Some of the comments on here really remind me that there is a real group-think on this thread.
There was shock when another poster mentioned that a large family can happily live in a 3 bedroom house and make do.
The comment in reply was it is not the 1980's

(That made me laugh)
So the logic is that everyone has 2.5 kids now?
Many rural families have large families to help on the farm and for thier own well-being and security in future.
The 2.5 kids part-time parent phenomenon is only a recent development.
In a largely urbanised micro-managed society, it has become the socially accepted thing to do.
But yet the positive aspects of Traveller culture are not taken as an example instead the negatives are focused upon as an example to others.
In some peoples mind now, all Traveller women are like Margaret Cash.
If you believe that what does it say about you?

lawred2

:rolleyes:

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Travelllers leaving school without a proper education etc are negatives. But comments such as the above are enter confirmation bias at best of negative stereotyping and prejudice at worst.

Actually the poster provided you with stats about abuse suffered by Traveller women and the negatives about the culture of early school leaving and equally early marriage. All of which you have ignored. I believe that somewhere a bridge is missing its resident .

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually the poster provided you with stats about abuse suffered by Traveller women and the negatives about the culture of early school leaving and equally early marriage. All of which you have ignored. I believe that somewhere a bridge is missing its resident .

So you are going to ignore the fact that it was also implied that ALL Traveller men treat thier women as punching bags.
That is convenient!
That stuff is no better then Margaret Cash's guff.

[Deleted User]

On the family first thing. The heavily pregnant woman who videoed the goings on in Longford the other day had no regard for her unborn child. There was a loaded gun in close proximity to her and she chose to put her family in harms way.

That was disgusting.

Plumbthedepths

gormdubhgorm wrote:

So you are going to ignore the fact that it was also implied that ALL Traveller men treat thier women as punching bags. That is convenient! That stuff is no better then Margaret Cash's guff.

It wasn't implied however the stats indicate that Traveller women suffer a higher level of abuse than settled women from their spouses. You are the one using ALL. As I said a bridge is missing its resident. Time for the ignore button.

Gwen Cooper

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Traveller women are full-time mothers because they have little choice. Their culture often takes girls out of school at at early age for fear that they will mix with settled boys. Barely literate, often with no formal qualifications, they are typically married off to first or second cousins, sometimes at an age when they are not yet legally adults. And once a Traveller girl is married, her husband rules the roost. It is a highly patriarchal and controlling culture.

Many young Traveller women wind up uneducated, unemployable, trapped in a caravan with kids, and frequently subjected to domestic abuse. In studies, 60 to 80 percent of married Traveller women report being abused by their husbands, and the violence is often more severe and sustained than what settled women report.

The only remarkable thing is that you're now on here extolling the virtues of a culture that treats women as a combination of brood mares and punching bags.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So you are going to ignore the fact that it was also implied that ALL Traveller men treat thier women as punching bags.
That is convenient!
That stuff is no better then Margaret Cash's guff.

I think you're wrong.

lawred2

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I think you're wrong a troll.

sorry about doing that - it's just that I'm a real stickler for typos

gormdubhgorm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

On the family first thing. The heavily pregnant woman who videoed the goings on in Longford the other day had no regard for her unborn child. There was a loaded gun in close proximity to her and she chose to put her family in harms way.

That was disgusting.

Again one woman having disregard for her child's safety (as you see it) does not define a culture.
I have seen at least one woman in her pjs from the city centre crossing a busy O'Connell Street while using the buggy as a buffer to stop traffic.
Does that mean that all settled people do the same?

gormdubhgorm

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

I think you're wrong.

So you are going to ignore the last line.

The only remarkable thing is tha you're now on here extolling the virtues of a culture that treats women as a combination of brood mares and punching bags.

Which shows all the 'typical's' and 'often's' to that was nothing but a smokescreen to the posters true beliefs.
The mask slipped.
It is not a virtue of the travaller culture to beat women.
The is a view by the poster which is no other then a line routed purely in prejudice.
Which is sad, for all the posters education (in comparison to the travellers generally) his/her prejudice wins out.

KrustyUCC

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

On the family first thing. The heavily pregnant woman who videoed the goings on in Longford the other day had no regard for her unborn child. There was a loaded gun in close proximity to her and she chose to put her family in harms way.

That was disgusting.

I loved the story recently where two lads brazenly having a fight just outside a major Garda Station

A mother gets her son to video it whilst she goes and threatens the other mother

The son is delighted with his Dad fighting and that he won't back down to no one.

whilst some other kids in the car are obviously distraught at the scene

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3341371/two-men-battering-galway-road/

"Gwan my daddy"

"My father will never give in for nobody. Never in his life will he give in."

"Yes, daddy. Go on, dad. Come on, my father.”

" Leave him for dead".

fantastic culture that has been passed onto that boy

Plumbthedepths

KrustyUCC wrote:

fantastic culture that has been passed onto that boy

Already a lost cause, terrible to hear the other children crying in distress.

Gravelly

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But there are positives in the traveller culture how the family unit looks after each other

They sure "look after" each other and keep it in the family alright......

TRAVELLERS have a higher rate of inherited genetic disorders than the rest of the population mainly due to intermarriage by close relations

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Travelllers leaving school without a proper education etc are negatives.

Curiously, this "negative" (lack of education) leads directly to what you see as a "positive" (Travellers being full-time mothers).

Why do you think Travellers tend to wind up trapped in caravans taking care of numerous children? It's precisely because they are barely literate, have no formal qualifications, are not employable, and were married off in their teens within a culture that views them as baby-making machines.

But comments such as the above about punching bags are enter confirmation bias at best, or negative stereotyping and prejudice at worst.

Sorry, but the extent of domestic violence in Traveller communities is absolutely shocking. A report, Translating Pain into Action – Gender-based Violence and Minority Ethnic Women in Ireland, published by the Women's Health Council, found that Traveller women are 30 times as likely as settled women to suffer domestic violence.

Your logic is if one travller commits violence towards a women, ergo they must all do it.

Again, Traveller women are 30 times as likely as settled women to suffer domestic violence, and yet here you are insisting that they don't all beat their wives.

For the record, I never at any time said that all Travellers are violent towards their partners -- but the astronomical rates of domestic violence in Traveller communities speak for themselves. They also undermine the "one big happy family" portrait that you're trying to present here.

gormdubhgorm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

fantastic culture that has been passed onto that boy

Again, so the whole traveller culture is defined in your mind as this, nothing else??

Gravelly

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Again, so the whole traveller culture is defined in your mind as this, nothing else??

"Yeah the Nazis killed lots of people, but they built all those motorways, and the uniforms were fantastic"

gormdubhgorm

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Curiously, this "negative" (lack of education) leads directly to what you see as a "positive" (Travellers being full-time mothers).

I never said that full-time mothers did not have to go without education.
There can be educated full-time mothers you know.
It does not have to be one or the other.
If travellers got married a bit later after education the issue would be largely solved.

But the Travelllers still have one up on the settled community when it comes to the family unit.
It is the marrying young and lack of education that needs to be resolved.
Then after that the travellers would have even stronger family units who are better off.

thegetawaycar

Back to the topic from me.

"She placed Cash on a Probation Bond of €100 for 12 months and on condition that she engages with the Probation Services and the Restorative Justice Services."
What exactly is Restorative Justice Service?

Gwen Cooper

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So you are going to ignore the last line. ðŸ˜€

Which shows all the 'typical's' and 'often's' to that was nothing but a smokescreen to the posters true beliefs.
The mask slipped.
It is not a virtue of the travaller culture to beat women.
The is a view by the poster which is no other then a line routed purely in prejudice.
Which is sad, for all the posters education (in comparison to the travellers generally) his/her prejudice wins out.

Well not in that context. Your problem is that you only focus on the last line and ignore the rest.

The entire post is giving you examples of things that are fairly common in the culture, the final line is just some sort of a sum up.

It's the same like when you give us a lecture about travellers sticking with their families, yet I'm pretty sure that you don't mean every single one of them.

gormdubhgorm

Gravelly wrote: »

"Yeah the Nazis killed lots of people, but they built all those motorways, and the uniforms were fantastic"

That is a pure deflection comment rooted in your prejudice on the issue of travellers.
Ironically your comment has the same echoes of those well dressed group.

gormdubhgorm

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Back to the topic from me.

"She placed Cash on a Probation Bond of €100 for 12 months and on condition that she engages with the Probation Services and the Restorative Justice Services."
What exactly is Restorative Justice Service?

See below:

http://probation.ie/EN/PB/WebPages/WP16000044

Gravelly

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is a pure deflection comment rooted in your prejudice on the issue of travellers.
Ironically your comment has the same echoes of those well dressed group.

Face it, you made a ridiculous claim on the part of your beloved travellers, and when challenged, instead of admitting you'd had a senior moment or something, you've doubled down. You are looking increasingly silly, give it up.

SusieBlue

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I never said that full-time mothers did not have to go without education.
There can be educated full-time mothers you know.
It does not have to be one or the other.
If travellers got married a bit later after education the issue would be largely solved.

But the Travelllers still have one up on the settled community when it comes to the family unit.
It is the marrying young and lack of education that needs to be resolved.
Then after that the travellers would have even stronger family units who are better off.

There'd still be the problem of them not contributing any taxes yet living at the expense of the tax payer, though.
There's also the problem of their blasé approach to breaking the law, their lack of respect for the settled community and their propensity for violence and committing crimes.
Marrying young and the lack of education are only the tip of the iceberg.

The problem with their "culture" is that it encourages criminality, lack of accountability and ambition, and entitlement.

Deebles McBeebles

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Back to the topic from me.

"She placed Cash on a Probation Bond of €100 for 12 months and on condition that she engages with the Probation Services and the Restorative Justice Services."
What exactly is Restorative Justice Service?

Basically, and stay with me here, its a load of sh*te.
http://www.iprt.ie/restorative-justice

gormdubhgorm

Gravelly wrote: »

Face it, you made a ridiculous claim on the part of your beloved travellers, and when challenged, instead of admitting you'd had a senior moment or something, you've doubled down. You are looking increasingly silly, give it up.

You just do not want to the see the point I am making, that is all.
As far as you are concerned, there is nothing positive in the traveller culture at all they should all ape the settled community.
Because the settled community modern lifestyle is perfect in your view.

But to me there are also aspects that the Traveller community have which are positive, which the settled community have lost. Many intangibles as I have already mentioned, as well as tangibles such as language (which I know a lot don't speak) but they created it.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I never said that full-time mothers did not have to go without education.
There can be educated full-time mothers you know.
It does not have to be one or the other.
If travellers got married a bit later after education the issue would be largely solved.

Again, you're missing the point that educated women tend to marry later, have fewer children, and don't tend to give up their jobs just because they have children.

In Ireland decades ago, it was the norm for women to marry in their early 20s and become stay-at-home mothers. But the availability of free secondary education (introduced 1967), the end of the marriage ban (1973), the end of the blanket ban on contraception (1979), and the introduction of free third-level education (1996) changed all of that. The norm is now that women go on to third level (almost 60 percent of Irish women aged 25 to 34 have a third-level qualification) and don't get married until their early 30s on average.

But the Travelllers still have one up on the settled community when it comes to the family unit.

Family units where drug and alcohol abuse, feuding, domestic violence, early consanguineous marriage, and disregard for education are the norm? Yeah, they sure have it better than settled folk. :rolleyes: The sad reality is that half of Travellers are dead before the age of 40. It's hardly something to aspire to.