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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

So since the last thread on this got closed and dosen't appear to be reopening any time soon. Heres a new one for you.

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punisher5112

Here we go wrote: »

So it 20 people pay on your bus and one guy doesn't. You'd let the 20 paying customers all be late for work (maybe the 3/4th time that week and leads to them being fired) or missing a hospital appointment they waited 6 months for and have to go back on a waiting list.

That's a bit extreme......

That doesn't happen.

If you leave it that late then your time keeping isn't the best so maybe leave earlier.

What does one do when there is traffic???

Brian CivilEng

Day 1 for me with Go Ahead on the 17a, not impressed. Frequency has been reduced to 15mins, my bus was 10mins late yet two showed up at once. So either one left 5mins early (unforgivable) or one was 25mins late and the other 10mins. I'm 3 stops from the beginning of the route in Kilbarrack.

By the time we got to Santry there were 3 buses running together. I think they were aiming for a photo finish in Blanchardstown, the entire fleet arriving in formation.

Teething problems, I'll give them time. Just needed to get that rant off my chest.

Qrt

punisher5112 wrote: »

That doesn't happen.

Oh you’d be easily surprised. It’s happened to me three times and I’m only young...

devnull

Qrt wrote: »

Oh you’d be easily surprised. It’s happened to me three times and I’m only young...

Happened to me three, a fairly well known female driver out of Phibsborough would often turn the engine off when someone was over-riding, calling out to them over the PA shouting "this is your stop" only saw it happen with her mind.

5star02707

Since yesterday 2nd December the 17a doesn;t appear on any apps anymore and had to go to rtpi.ie to see it. bit of a hassle but hopefully they integrate it on any apps

Here we go

punisher5112 wrote: »

That's a bit extreme......

That doesn't happen.

If you leave it that late then your time keeping isn't the best so maybe leave earlier.

What does one do when there is traffic???

Yes it is extreme and on the balance of probability more likely not to happen then to. But you don't actually know that could be one paying passenger on that day. I don't disagree with you people should pay. But it should be enforced by having a strong revenue protection who are financed and given the support needed. Not on an individual driver putting out all the other passengers for one git who if there of a mind not to pay prob don't see it as you doing your job. And making it fair on everyone but as you being a stuck up dick. (not calling you one of course just how the mind of some people work even when there in the wrong see people standing up to that as some sort of problem with that person )

XPS_Zero

I'm greatly amused at how people will proscribe things to the post competition environment that they say never happened before.

A bus arrived on the 45a route the other day, and people had to be transferred from one bus to the other. Cue the complaints that "this never happened on the old 45a". The myths are already starting, the rose tinted glasses.

Apparently Dublin Bus never transferred people between busses (all those times it happened on the 84 and 145 must have been dreams, not to mention all those long waits outside Donnybrook depot when the replacement driver was late)

Apparently Dublin Bus was never late "like this" :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Yep that was CIE, efficiency, punctuality, customer service - until those ideologues with their devil horns came along to "privatize" it all (while somehow maintaining the entire thing in state ownership and control)

God I hate people...I hate people...so very much...

LuckyLloyd

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm greatly amused at how people will proscribe things to the post competition environment that they say never happened before.

A bus arrived on the 45a route the other day, and people had to be transferred from one bus to the other. Cue the complaints that "this never happened on the old 45a". The myths are already starting, the rose tinted glasses.
Apparently Dublin Bus never transferred people between busses (all those times it happened on the 84 and 145 must have been dreams, not to mention all those long waits outside Donnybrook depot when the replacement driver was late)

Apparently Dublin Bus was never late "like this" :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Yep that was CIE, efficiency, punctuality, customer service - until those ideologues with their devil horns came along to "privatize" it all (while somehow maintaining the entire thing in state ownership and control)

God I hate people...I hate people...so very much...

The reverse will no doubt be true for another cohort

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm greatly amused at how people will proscribe things to the post competition environment that they say never happened before.

while tendering is a form of competition, i believe using the term competition here has the potential to mislead average people who may not understand what is actually happening, into thinking that they will have a choice of operators, which in most cases is unlikely to be the case. therefore i believe describing it as it actually is, as in tendering, would be better and accurate.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

A bus arrived on the 45a route the other day, and people had to be transferred from one bus to the other. Cue the complaints that "this never happened on the old 45a". The myths are already starting, the rose tinted glasses.

or perhapse they are not myths but actual happenings. i think you are engaging in the opposite of what you are complaining that some are doing, by trying to dismiss issues that have arisen. those issues may not have existed, or existed less before.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Apparently Dublin Bus never transferred people between busses (all those times it happened on the 84 and 145 must have been dreams, not to mention all those long waits outside Donnybrook depot when the replacement driver was late)

Apparently Dublin Bus was never late "like this"

Yep that was CIE, efficiency, punctuality, customer service - until those ideologues with their devil horns came along to "privatize" it all (while somehow maintaining the entire thing in state ownership and control)

God I hate people...I hate people...so very much...

nobody said dublin bus didn't transfer people from busses or weren't late etc . however if those issues have increased under a new operator then you will need to except that those who are effected will complain about it and not be 100% enthusiastic about the new operator. oh and by the way, customer service issues efficientsy issues and punctuality issues aren't unique to CIE or public companies.

dashcamdanny

Here we go wrote: »

So it 20 people pay on your bus and one guy doesn't. You'd let the 20 paying customers all be late for work (maybe the 3/4th time that week and leads to them being fired) or missing a hospital appointment they waited 6 months for and have to go back on a waiting list.

Im sorry that that would happen, but drivers are also there to protect the interests of the company they work for. You just cant let people trample all over you. They just come back to do it again and again.
The incidents I choose to fight are well chosen. Off peek. You see the same people trying to bluff and lie to you. Some even will make fun of it while departing.
Im not looking for trouble by any means.
But if I let lowlifes take the mick out of me, or the company I work for, It would eat at me all day after.

If people dont have money to travel or no credit on their leap, and ask to travel in a civil manner, I would never leave them stuck either.

I think proper inspectors need to be back out on the road again. The way it used to be.

CramCycle

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm greatly amused at how people will proscribe things to the post competition environment that they say never happened before.

A bus arrived on the 45a route the other day, and people had to be transferred from one bus to the other. Cue the complaints that "this never happened on the old 45a". The myths are already starting, the rose tinted glasses.
Apparently Dublin Bus never transferred people between busses (all those times it happened on the 84 and 145 must have been dreams, not to mention all those long waits outside Donnybrook depot when the replacement driver was late)

Apparently Dublin Bus was never late "like this" :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Yep that was CIE, efficiency, punctuality, customer service - until those ideologues with their devil horns came along to "privatize" it all (while somehow maintaining the entire thing in state ownership and control)

God I hate people...I hate people...so very much...

100%, often happened on all these routes, a few times a day, that is just the way the rostering worked and switching drivers at Donnybrook. Buses stopping in the middle of Bray for 15 minutes (never figured out this one), or swapping passengers so the other bus could turn around quicker.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Happened to me three, a fairly well known female driver out of Phibsborough would often turn the engine off when someone was over-riding, calling out to them over the PA shouting "this is your stop" only saw it happen with her mind.

Never seen that kind of carry on now myself. That's sounds like a complete jobsworth mentality to me.

Stephen15

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Im sorry that that would happen, but drivers are also there to protect the interests of the company they work for. You just cant let people trample all over you. They just come back to do it again and again.
The incidents I choose to fight are well chosen. Off peek. You see the same people trying to bluff and lie to you. Some even will make fun of it while departing.
Im not looking for trouble by any means.
But if I let lowlifes take the mick out of me, or the company I work for, It would eat at me all day after.

If people dont have money to travel or no credit on their leap, and ask to travel in a civil manner, I would never leave them stuck either.

I think proper inspectors need to be back out on the road again. The way it used to be.

So I take by sounds of things you as a driver care more about the companies revenue than the company does because by the sounds and looks of thing DB or the NTA on GAI services don't care about people not paying the correct fare if they did then they'd have large numbers of revenue protection officers checking buses on a regular basis.

It just seems that by trying to confront lowlife scum you get more hassle than it's really worth especially when they outnumber you.

Kh1993

abitofacomedian wrote: »

Day 1 for me with Go Ahead on the 17a, not impressed. Frequency has been reduced to 15mins, my bus was 10mins late yet two showed up at once. So either one left 5mins early (unforgivable) or one was 25mins late and the other 10mins. I'm 3 stops from the beginning of the route in Kilbarrack.

By the time we got to Santry there were 3 buses running together. I think they were aiming for a photo finish in Blanchardstown, the entire fleet arriving in formation.

Teething problems, I'll give them time. Just needed to get that rant off my chest.

Two 30+ min wait for 17a’s today. Teething problems I’m sure will be their free pass.

Not even an apologetic comment card to fill out, no answer for asking where a bus was, and to why it had counted down to due and disappeared.

Yer Da sells Avon

dashcamdanny wrote: »

It is the drivers job to make sure everyone on the bus has a valid ticket to travel.
The problem IMO. Is that to many drivers turn a blind eye If a driver thinks there is a person using someone else's card, he/she is entirely entitled to take it. And refuse entry. If in doubt. Turn the engine off, call the controller.
I don't put up with it . Why should people pays 1000s per year while others cheat.

It's not the driver's job to discommode other passengers by turning the engine off, just because some twat won't pay €2.80. Do you stay back after work and wash the buses too? It's the company's responsibility to hire revenue protection staff. The driver has enough to do, without making extra work for himself/herself.

Yer Da sells Avon

Kh1993 wrote: »

Two 30+ min wait for 17a’s today. Teething problems I’m sure will be their free pass.

Not even an apologetic comment card to fill out, no answer for asking where a bus was, and to why it had counted down to due and disappeared.

How much time did you give them to answer you?

Their contact details are here.

Teething problems are inevitable. They had serious teething problems on some of their southside routes in October, but everything seems to be ok on those routes now.

Kh1993

Kh1993 wrote: »

Two 30+ min wait for 17a’s today. Teething problems I’m sure will be their free pass.

Not even an apologetic comment card to fill out, no answer for asking where a bus was, and to why it had counted down to due and disappeared.

Edit: have now waited 53 minutes at Kilbarrack for a 17a this evening. Go Ahead “apologise for the slight delay”. Joke of a service. Now one has left terminus OOS. (Double edit - now two have left OOS, still no bus - 55 minutes later). “Teething problems”

All while a turned off bus awaits its departure time. Despite go ahead missing it’s 1650, 1705, 1720 and 1735 departures.

If you can’t run a proper service cheaply then don’t bid for it. Simple.

It’s easy to post “teething problems” from behind a screen. Try do it when you’ve waited a sum total of 92 minutes today for a bus route that’s advertised every 15 mins. A free pass for Go Ahead as always must be.

.G.

dashcamdanny wrote: »

It is the drivers job to make sure everyone on the bus has a valid ticket to travel.
The problem IMO. Is that to many drivers turn a blind eye If a driver thinks there is a person using someone else's card, he/she is entirely entitled to take it. And refuse entry. If in doubt. Turn the engine off, call the controller.
I don't put up with it . Why should people pays 1000s per year while others cheat.

It really isn't. Dublin Bus bye laws put the onus on the customer to ensure they have a valid ticket for travel.

16. Each passenger when boarding a vehicle operated by a driver only shall:
(a) inform the driver of his intended destination, and
(b) except the passenger is already in possession of a valid ticket, pay the appropriate fare for such journey and ensure that he has been issued with a valid ticket and retain such ticket, and
(c) produce his ticket for inspection by an authorised person whenever so requested by such person and inform him of the place at which he boarded the vehicle and the journey he has made or intends to make.

You can certainly ask to see their ticket if you like the hassle of chasing people when the company isn't arsed about it. We've had drivers here complaining about abuse etc, I bet the ones who just drive the bus don't get any, I never did.

Revenue protection is the inspectors job.

devnull

Kh1993 wrote: »

Edit: have now waited 53 minutes at Kilbarrack for a 17a this evening. Go Ahead “apologise for the slight delay”. Joke of a service.

The 17A having missed departures and long gaps in service has always been a problem - granted today is worse than normal, but it is the first day of operation and nobody gets a new route perfect. I remember similar issues with network direct and new DB route changes and timetables had to be recast. It happened with Bus Eireann routes as well both on the PSO and Expressway network.

If you can’t run a proper service cheaply then don’t bid for it. Simple.

So you agree that Bus Eireann, who have run an extremely poor service on the Eastern PSO network for a whole year, should not bid for those services if they go up for tender? Or do you change your tune because of the fact that it's not Go-Ahead?

It’s easy to post “teething problems” from behind a screen. Try do it when you’ve waited a sum total of 92 minutes today for a bus route that’s advertised every 15 mins. A free pass for Go Ahead as always must be.

Nobody gets a free pass, but judging an operator based on the first day of a service is sheer lunacy, A colleague of mine had issues with drivers not knowing the route of the 40E and getting lost today and successive buses not seeming to operate, but I'm not going to use that to bash Dublin Bus because I understand that is to be expected when drivers are running routes for the first time that they have never run before.

Kh1993

devnull wrote: »

The 17A having missed departures and long gaps in service has always been a problem - granted today is worse than normal, but it is the first day of operation and nobody gets a new route perfect. I remember similar issues with network direct and new DB route changes and timetables had to be recast. It happened with Bus Eireann routes as well both on the PSO and Expressway network.

So you agree that Bus Eireann, who have run an extremely poor service on the Eastern PSO network for a whole year, should not bid for those services if they go up for tender? Or do you change your tune because of the fact that it's not Go-Ahead.

Nobody gets a free pass, but judging an operator based on the first day of a service is sheer lunacy, A colleague of mine had issues with drivers not knowing the route of the 40E and getting lost today and successive buses not seeming to operate, but I'm not going to use that to bash Dublin Bus because I understand that is to be expected when drivers are running routes for the first time that they have never run before.

Changed my tune? What a bizarre post from a supposed moderator. I have no care for Bus Eireann, I don’t use them and have no idea of them. Accusing me of changing my tune is a baseless personal attack which I demand you withdraw immediately.

Yer Da sells Avon

Kh1993 wrote: »

It’s easy to post “teething problems” from behind a screen. Try do it when you’ve waited a sum total of 92 minutes today for a bus route that’s advertised every 15 mins. A free pass for Go Ahead as always must be.

They don't deserve a free pass, but teething problems are inevitable, although I know that's no consolation to passengers. The important thing is that they learn from their mistakes very quickly, as they have on the southside. Delays are also inevitable at this time of year (a return of Operation Freeflow is badly needed), but they'll figure out how to manage them better, control gaps between buses, utilise spare drivers, etc as they gather more information.

A calm, measured, well-thought-out email (to customercomment@goaheadireland.ie), detailing the exact nature of the delay, would be a lot more effective (and helpful to both yourself and Go-Ahead) than tossing off a series of angry tweets at whoever happens to be operating the social media account.

devnull

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They don't deserve a free pass, but teething problems are inevitable, although I know that's no consolation to passengers. The important thing is that they learn from their mistakes very quickly, as they have on the southside. Delays are also inevitable at this time of year (a return of Operation Freeflow is badly needed), but they'll figure out how to manage them better, control gaps between buses, utilise spare drivers, etc as they gather more information.

Operation Freeflow didn't work for everyone though - it was known as Operation NoFlow in some areas, since by giving priority to one area, other areas ended up far worse off than they would be if the Guards were not fiddling with traffic light sequences and personally I used to hate it - sure some benefited though.

There were some farcical changes where you'd be stuck on red for ages, get green for 5 seconds and take ages to get the top of the queue, whilst in other directions where the roads met there was no queue and often green lights to roads with no queues whilst you sat idly by at a red light and barely moving.

DB are facing the same issues on the 40E - reports today of heavy delays in traffic and journeys taking almost double of what they are indicated for - which probably led to the missed departures that I spoke about.

Kh1993

30 people or so waiting at Santry Lane too, 30 left behind at DCU. Driver not happy, loudly heard telling radio he was switching off. Incidentally he charged everyone lowest fare to apologise for the company delaying him

There’s a few faults / reasons here.

1. DB could pick up slack by sending buses from
harristown to either terminus in 15 mins. GA can’t. Again whoever’s fault that is, GA or NTA, the average user couldn’t care. But when you run a service on low cost, this is what you lose out on.

2. GA or NTA have produced a timetable that can’t be stuck to. Again someone’s fault, really couldn’t care who’s. But today is a nice dry day, traffic is relatively normal so it’s not as if it’s special circumstances. Dread to think of it with some rain and some Thursday/Friday Xmas traffic added in. They either haven’t the resources to cover the timetable or they’re not using them effectively. I’m not sure how them two issues can be remedied unless buses are thrown at the route, or the timetable is reduced.

For the posters (mods included) trying to counter by bringing up Other operators (Bus Eireann bizarrely despite me having no need/idea/knowledge of them), I’ve criticised Irish Rail ( a state company) numerous times on here if we’re going down the lazy “he’s only criticising cos they’re a private operator” route, which I thought would be an argument below this forums standards.

monument

Kh1993 wrote: »

Changed my tune? What a bizarre post from a supposed moderator. I have no care for Bus Eireann, I don’t use them and have no idea of them. Accusing me of changing my tune is a baseless personal attack which I demand you withdraw immediately.

A few things need to be made clear here:

1. Please read the C&T charter before posting again.

2. Do not post about moderation or demand any poster remove a remark — if you have a problem the. report the post and wait for a response, next step is to PM a moderator if you’re not happy and then PM a C-mod..

3. Moderators are just normal posters when they are not moderatoring — moderators are members of this community as much as anybody else and them volunteering as moderators does not stop them from expressing their own views when posting normally.

4. He posted two possibilities and asked a question (even if the question mark is missing).

— moderator

Stephen15

Kh1993 wrote: »

Changed my tune? What a bizarre post from a supposed moderator. I have no care for Bus Eireann, I don’t use them and have no idea of them. Accusing me of changing my tune is a baseless personal attack which I demand you withdraw immediately.

Maybe not yourself but plenty of people are blaming the problems of GAI on their status as a private company and their nationality as being British. What people are trying to say is that serious operational issues aren't unique to private operators DB, IE and BE have many also.

CramCycle

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's not the driver's job to discommode other passengers by turning the engine off, just because some twat won't pay €2.80. Do you stay back after work and wash the buses too? It's the company's responsibility to hire revenue protection staff. The driver has enough to do, without making extra work for himself/herself.

As a matter of interest, if that were true, why bother paying the fare at all. Just hop on and walk past the Leap machine and sit down. Its not the drivers job to do anything, then why does anyone bother paying with only 4 collectors going around the place.

The truth is, it is unofficially part of the drivers job and they have to make an educated decision on the hassle vs time and knock on. If only one person in 200 does it, it is not worth the cost to DB or the passengers to do it. If everyone walks passed, then the cost:benefit ratio is gone askew and it is worth stopping.

it may not be written down anywhere but DB drivers are not stupid, if they don't collect fares, the company and their negotiation platform in times of trouble will struggle.

john boye

dashcamdanny wrote: »

It is the drivers job to make sure everyone on the bus has a valid ticket to travel.
The problem IMO. Is that to many drivers turn a blind eye If a driver thinks there is a person using someone else's card, he/she is entirely entitled to take it. And refuse entry. If in doubt. Turn the engine off, call the controller.
I don't put up with it . Why should people pays 1000s per year while others cheat.

Could I ask what is the official company line on fare evaders/overriders? Are drivers instructed to pick them up on it/kick them off?

n!ghtmancometh

monument wrote: »

A few things need to be made clear here:

1. Please read the C&T charter before posting again.

2. Do not post about moderation or demand any poster remove a remark — if you have a problem the. report the post and wait for a response, next step is to PM a moderator if you’re not happy and then PM a C-mod..

3. Moderators are just normal posters when they are not moderatoring — moderators are members of this community as much as anybody else and them volunteering as moderators does not stop them from expressing their own views when posting normally.

4. He posted two possibilities and asked a question (even if the question mark is missing).

— moderator

That's a bloody ridiculous double standard, do you think typing in bold hides your hypocrisy or something? He personally attacked the other poster, but that is ignored completely.

Its moderating like this that has this site on its arse.

Good luck to ye all.

XPS_Zero

end of the road wrote: »

while tendering is a form of competition, i believe using the term competition here has the potential to mislead average people who may not understand what is actually happening, into thinking that they will have a choice of operators, which in most cases is unlikely to be the case. therefore i believe describing it as it actually is, as in tendering, would be better and accurate.

or perhapse they are not myths but actual happenings. i think you are engaging in the opposite of what you are complaining that some are doing, by trying to dismiss issues that have arisen. those issues may not have existed, or existed less before.

nobody said dublin bus didn't transfer people from busses or weren't late etc . however if those issues have increased under a new operator then you will need to except that those who are effected will complain about it and not be 100% enthusiastic about the new operator. oh and by the way, customer service issues efficientsy issues and punctuality issues aren't unique to CIE or public companies.

Jesus h f----g christ.....

Ok...:rolleyes:

1. YES. THEY. DID. SAY. THAT.
I WAS SITTING RIGHT BESIDE THEM WHEN THEY SAID IT
I HEARD THEM QUITE CLEARLY SAY "THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN WITH THE OLD 45A". They did say it, don't tell me what I didn't hear 2 f---g feet away from me.

2. Don't argue with points I never made and things I didn't say - I never said customer service problems were unique to CIE, I said CIE was really really bad at it. They were. They are. They continue to be.

3. People ignorance over the difference between privatization and competition is their problem, not the governments or the companies. They have to educate themselves on this stuff and if they get it wrong, they're the ones who are wrong. Privatization is selling the company and assets off. Contracting things out is not the same.

I have no problem looking at a new policy model and saying "this was a nice idea to try but it's not working, we need to change or end it". Because I, unlike most in this debate, am not a foam at the mouth ideologue whos outlook is locked in a cage that prevents them from looking at what works from a pragmatic point of view.

It is utterly absurd, no matter how the new model is working, to suggest transfers and lateness did not happen with Dublin Bus, when problems like that were among the very reasons the bloody competition came in to begin with.

Finding out if a policy is working or not is done by looking at the performance overall, not anecdotal experiences of individual people when they personally get the bus and form a subjective impression of things through rose tinted glasses. I get that same bus all the time and I've noticed no change other than a drivers uniform, nothing better, nothing worse, so there you have two contradicting anecdotal impressions - but we won't be making the decision based on those but overall indicators over thousands of journeys.

That is how decisions should be made, not by liveline-esque anecdotal stories.

Stephen15

CramCycle wrote: »

As a matter of interest, if that were true, why bother paying the fare at all. Just hop on and walk past the Leap machine and sit down. Its not the drivers job to do anything, then why does anyone bother paying with only 4 collectors going around the place.

I haven't witnessed it now myself but maybe most people are under impression that the driver does care about fare evasion and won't risk it. Even if the matter of fact is more often than not the driver does not care. Again I haven't witnessed this sort of behaviour and don't part take in it either as I'm an honest person.

The truth is, it is unofficially part of the drivers job and they have to make an educated decision on the hassle vs time and knock on. If only one person in 200 does it, it is not worth the cost to DB or the passengers to do it. If everyone walks passed, then the cost:benefit ratio is gone askew and it is worth stopping.

Agreed it's a bit of a non-issue as it dosen't happen on a regular basis at least I don't see it happening most times I use buses. However I think the idea of drivers switching off the engine if a person overrides is completely riddiculous behaviour that dosen't benefit very many people. It may actually be of benefit to the driver as it wastes time until their next break or whenever they finish their shift. Despite the lost revenue a bus off the road dosen't benefit the company either as it's not collecting revenue and it increases the calls for a flat fare.