Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

The highlighted bit of your post in the crux of the whole thing behaviour.

I live next to people from another continent I work with people from Africa Poland Asia and even Cork:D and I have good friendly relations with them all because they are decent people.

I think living next to decent people is what most people want and the main metric for judging that is behaviour.

The people in the apartment above me are Polish and they seem like decent people, but they invite what can only be a racehorse into their apartment to pee directly into the centre of the bowl every night. I've yet to broach the subject and we get along just fine.

A family of Travellers lived around the corner from me (in, shock-horror, a caravan) for several years and they were fine - kept themselves to themselves mostly. Never had (or heard of any other neighbours having) any issues with them.

Fordcspri23

Deleted User wrote: »

I’d never trust a cute cork hoor. Deadly.

They would ride their sister in mass.

blanch152

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Hold on, is Leo Varadkars boyfriends name Matt Barrett?

Jesus I only realised that now.

The poster who is called that here and criticizes Leo constantly here, well I feel sorry for them.

That is more creepy than pathetic.

WTF like???

Yeah, I only realised the connection between the username and Varadkar very recently.

Why someone who constantly criticises Varadkar would take a username of Varadkar's partner initially baffled me.

You are right that it is creepy. Very creepy.

Having thought about it, in my opinion, there is an undercurrent of homophobia in someone who would take that username linked to the Taoiseach and criticising him so strongly, as they are also trying to put up in lights who the Taoiseach's partner is. So why? Only conclusion is to highlight the sexual orientation of the Taoiseach, which is just about the lowest you can go in political criticism.

Maybe I am doing that poster a complete disservice, and maybe they are a different Matt Barrett but the link is more than a little disturbing.

B00MSTICK

Can someone challenge/debate with me on this point or is it just a fact that the main elements of traveller "culture" inherently cause anti-social behaviour/lifetime on the dole/criminality in members of their community?

gormdubhgorm wrote:

The reason why I made that comparison is because clondalkin is an economically disadvantaged area with similar population as the travellers as a whole.

Those are the type of areas that should be compared as many are struggling and there are a lot of similarities.
Marry young.
Leave school early etc etc.

B00MSTICK wrote: »

I'd agree with this.
Anti-social/scummy behaviour can be traced back to many issues but and I'll add a few from my POV:
Lack of education (leaving school early due to early marriage or getting pregnant etc.) or little value placed on education (potentially uneducated parents?)

Lack of attention/responsibilty from parents or outright neglect (large families may be part of this?)

Lack of good/positive role models

Living environment/peer pressure/ridicule (getting in with the wrong crowd)

Many more..

.

The problem I have is that Traveller culture actually exacerbates many of these issues to a massive degree.
Is that something we can agree with?
I could list aspects of Traveller culture against all the points above but I assume most can join the dots.

And there are definitely similarities between the above and disadvantaged areas 100%

AllForIt

Every single problem travelers have is directly due to them being lower working class.

If they were wealthy they wouldn't be doing a fraction of the thieving they are known for.

If they weren't unemployed with noting to do all day they wouldn't be hanging around the towns in groups all day long. That is my major gripe with them.

If they were focused on a working life they wouldn't choose to live in a mobile home because traveling and a stable job don't mix. Not for most professions anyway.

I'm sick to the back teeth of the media suggesting that all the travelers ills are the result of prejudice and marginalization. These things inevitably happen to some degree because of their beloved lifestyle and especially as I say because they choose to live a lower working class existence as if their were something intrinsically noble in such a choice.

They choose to live together which by definition creates a them and us by default. How can ppl expect not to be marginalized when they marginalize themselves as a result of their so called culture. No other race stick together in the way they do, not in this country anyway. African tribes are the only other demographic that behave similarly I can think of.

The ppl who peddle this widespread marginalization nonsense for me are directly responsible for the attitude of ppl like Margaret Cash who feel no sense of social responsibility whatsoever and an example of that is having countless children with no regard to how she's going to support them and then complains the state are failing in their duty to house her large family as if she knows anything whatsoever about duty. It really is utterly infuriating what has been allowed to happen and the worse part of it is is it's not solely the travelers to blame but the do-gooders that support and defend them as if to show how virtuous they are in doing so.

AllForIt wrote: »

Every single problem travelers have is directly due to them being lower working class.

If they were wealthy they wouldn't be doing a fraction of the thieving they are known for.

If they weren't unemployed with noting to do all day they wouldn't be hanging around the towns in groups all day long. That is my major gripe with them.

If they were focused on a working life they wouldn't choose to live in a mobile home because traveling and a stable job don't mix. Not for most professions anyway.

I'm sick to the back teeth of the media suggesting that all the travelers ills are the result of prejudice and marginalization. These things inevitably happen to some degree because of their beloved lifestyle and especially as I say because they choose to live a lower working class existence as if their were something intrinsically noble in such a choice.

They choose to live together which by definition creates a them and us by default. How can ppl expect not to be marginalized when they marginalize themselves as a result of their so called culture. No other race stick together in the way they do, not in this country anyway. African tribes are the only other demographic that behave similarly I can think of.

The ppl who peddle this widespread marginalization nonsense for me are directly responsible for the attitude of ppl like Margaret Cash who feel no sense of social responsibility whatsoever and an example of that is having countless children with no regard to how she's going to support them and then complains the state are failing in their duty to house her large family as if she knows anything whatsoever about duty. It really is utterly infuriating what has been allowed to happen and the worse part of it is is it's not solely the travelers to blame but the do-gooders that support and defend them as if to show how virtuous they are in doing so.

In order to be a member of the working class, one needs to work.

AllForIt wrote: »

It really is utterly infuriating what has been allowed to happen and the worse part of it is is it's not solely the travelers to blame but the do-gooders that support and defend them as if to show how virtuous they are in doing so

.

Ruraldweller56

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

The people in the apartment above me are Polish and they seem like decent people, but they invite what can only be a racehorse into their apartment to pee directly into the centre of the bowl every night. I've yet to broach the subject and we get along just fine.

A family of Travellers lived around the corner from me (in, shock-horror, a caravan) for several years and they were fine - kept themselves to themselves mostly. Never had (or heard of any other neighbours having) any issues with them.

That they're not all bad, and a few are decent folk hasn't been disputed.

I've spent my life around them and to be honest I haven't seen much good. The 'betterer' ones have just left me alone and kept out of my way.

Other people such as yourself claim to have met decent ones. I'm not arguing or disputing what you say.

This thread is about a woman who felt she was justified in trying to steal clothes because 'muh culture' and the 'gubbnernment' victimising her.

The culture of entitlement is what's causing this situation to fester. I don't know how many times I need to repeat it. The rest of us owe them nothing. In fact, at this stage a thank you, from the likes of pavee point to the rest of us for paying for their lifestyle is long overdue.

Once we all can sit down and discuss this openly and honesty we'll keep going around in circles.

'i know a man and he is really sound' contributes sweet fanny Adams to the situation. And has been bandied about several times already.

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

'i know a man and he is really sound' contributes sweet fanny Adams to the situation. And has been bandied about several times already.

More like a mantra.

Sheep breeder

Edgware wrote: »

Anyone doing the Christian thing and inviting Mags and kids over for Christmas day?

Is she not going out to Miriam for the turkey

Funny that the same lads that have tall tales of the wonderful traveller folk who restored their faith in mankind, always seem to be the lads that will immediately respond to anyone else's experiences with a demand for proof.

AllForIt

Deleted User wrote: »

In order to be a member of the working class, one needs to work.

Working Class to me describes ones social demographic background, not literally that one works. In any case I used the term lower-working-class, the class below Working Class, which is to me the social demographic at the near bottom of the social scale and I'd say that describes ppl who either don't work, have no intention of working, have no prospects for work, etc.

Roger Hassenforder

BBFAN wrote: »

Feel free to report my post all the same Roger since you still have a bee in your bonnet obviously. :rolleyes:

Are ya joking?
Twas hardly worth readin, not to mind reportin!

:rolleyes:

Gravelly wrote: »

Funny that the same lads that have tall tales of the wonderful traveller folk who restored their faith in mankind, always seem to be the lads that will immediately respond to anyone else's experiences with a demand for proof.

Can you provide us with a link or are you just tarring them all with the one brush?:P
Don't want you stereotyping them.:D

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Can you provide us with a link or are you just tarring them all with the one brush?:P
Don't want you stereotyping them.:D

I lived next door to a fella who told tall tales and he was the only one to help me look for my little dog that time he got lost

Graces7 wrote: »

Your main para; all that you are objecting to is that they do not conform to YOUR ideas, and why should they? They are a different ethnic minority. So yes, wilfully misunderstood. And if others were treated in eg schools as traveller kids often are? Sure they would leave. Education can always be resumed later in life and frankly is not the be all and end all of life.

Are irish folk innocent of the crimes you list?

In my years here I have had more serious problems with non-travellers than with travellers. And I mean serious. eg assault. Far more.
and equal great kindness and help from both groups.

wonder what you would make of the Amish

sightband wrote: »

Totally, completely, unequivocally deluded.

And look who thanked it of course...

Ruraldweller56

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

More like a mantra.

Personally it's just pis*sing me off even more when I hear some blue haired idiot lecture me about 'but I met one once and he was really sound'.

Probably went to a halting site as part of some BS University module to document traveller culture and of course were greeted with open arms where they were all only too happy to moan about how they're all victimised on camera as part of some pathetic documentary.

Cut off the subsidisation by hard working country folk and the entire farce collapses in a generation or 2.

gormdubhgorm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The real truth comes out in these tabloid red tops. That.

Bless your innocence. Google 'Hillsborough 1989 Sun Newspaper'

Gravelly wrote: »

Funny that the same lads that have tall tales of the wonderful traveller folk who restored their faith in mankind, always seem to be the lads that will immediately respond to anyone else's experiences with a demand for proof.

I certainly haven't demanded (or even requested) 'proof' of anything, so I'm not sure if you're referring to my post, but do you think I was telling a 'tall tale' about living near Travellers who kept themselves to themselves and never bothered anyone? Do you think it's impossible that anyone who happens to be a Traveller could be a normal, decent person? I'm sure you don't think that (because that would make you a massive racist), but you're in danger of coming across that way.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I certainly haven't demanded (or even requested) 'proof' of anything, so I'm not sure if you're referring to my post, but do you think I was telling a 'tall tale' about living near Travellers who kept themselves to themselves and never bothered anyone? Do you think it's impossible that anyone who happens to be a Traveller could be a normal, decent person? I'm sure you don't think that (because that would make you a massive racist), but you're in danger of coming across that way.

I'll get over it.

I lived next to a fella one time that was a mahoosive rashisht altogether, so he was, but by god he made a great cup o tae.

Gravelly wrote: »

I'll get over it.

I lived next to a fella one time that was a mahoosive rashisht altogether, so he was, but by god he made a great cup o tae.

But do you think I was lying about living near Travellers who kept themselves to themselves and never bothered anyone? Do you think it's impossible that anyone who happens to be a Traveller could be a normal, decent person? I'm genuinely interested.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

But do you think I was lying about living near Travellers who kept themselves to themselves and never bothered anyone? Do you think it's impossible that anyone who happens to be a Traveller could be a normal, decent person? I'm genuinely interested.

I'm sure you are genuinely interested. I am also sure there are travellers who are lovely, quiet, law-abiding people, who are wonderful neighbours - I've never met one, or met anyone in real life who met one, but lots of people on here seem to have. But then there's a thread on here where people are recounting their experiences of meeting ghosts too.

Ruraldweller56

Gravelly wrote: »

I'll get over it.

I lived next to a fella one time that was a mahoosive rashisht altogether, so he was, but by god he made a great cup o tae.

Everyone's a racist nowadays. When I was a young whippersnapper it was away simpler. You just hated someone because of the ethnic group they belonged to/skin colour/religious affiliation they had without knowing anything else about them.

These days unless you're offering rooms in your house for these people to live in free of charge or aren't actively going out of your way to interact with them for no other reason than that they're different you're a racist. Or if you don't believe that you're taxes should be funding a way of living that isn't economically viable...

Liberals/lefties like the 5-6 on here are responsible for rendering that term completely meaningless.

Gravelly wrote: »

I'm sure you are genuinely interested. I am also sure there are travellers who are lovely, quiet, law-abiding people, who are wonderful neighbours - I've never met one, or met anyone in real life who met one, but lots of people on here seem to have. But then there's a thread on here where people are recounting their experiences of meeting ghosts too.

A direct answer to my question would have been nice, but perhaps too much to expect.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

A direct answer to my question would have been nice, but perhaps too much to expect.

You got one, you just weren't clever enough to recognise it.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Do you think it's impossible that anyone who happens to be a Traveller could be a normal, decent person? I'm sure you don't think that (because that would make you a massive racist), but you're in danger of coming across that way.

Debatable. I wouldn't call them a different race at all. Enda and his boys decided that on our behalf. I absolutely reject it.

Anyway, of course there are decent Traveller folks. Regular family men, women and children just wanting to get on with life without infringing on others. It must be so tough on them. A sizeable chunk of their people have dragged their name through the mud though and given them the reputation they face today. A horrible situation to be in. Trust me, it's not lost on me.

Gravelly wrote: »

I'm sure you are genuinely interested. I am also sure there are travellers who are lovely, quiet, law-abiding people, who are wonderful neighbours - I've never met one, or met anyone in real life who met one, but lots of people on here seem to have. But then there's a thread on here where people are recounting their experiences of meeting ghosts too.

Gravelly as a poster I like you but this post:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Your analogy is just plain wrong.:(

I know two people that say they have experienced paranormal activity.:D

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

A direct answer to my question would have been nice, but perhaps too much to expect.

The smugness just emanates from your response, why don't you become an automatic arbiter of justice Ray.

Gravelly wrote: »

You got one, you just weren't clever enough to recognise it.

I'll refrain from commenting on your intelligence, but you don't appear to understand the difference between a direct answer and a slippery, evasive one.