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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Autochange

Bear markets
Fud
Regulation
Wall Street manipulation
The supposed tether ticking time bomb

What are your thoughts? Have you cashed out? Have you been buying the dips?

MOD NOTE:
Its good to see healthy debate and discussion taking place and I am sure every supporter of cryptocurrency and blockchain can agree that the contrarian viewpoint is worthwhile reading, if only to act as an anchor and help prevent investors from getting carried away in an echo chamber of "everything is wonderful, just keep going"

However, there have been a few reported posts recently which I did not action as I wanted to see the thread level out itself rather than start forcing viewpoints and I have been in two minds about that decision.

I'm not going to single any posters out but I'm going to ask that all posters read the forum charter and I want to point out that it was established years ago in the Television forum, that dropping in on a forum to tell the followers of that forums topic (in that case a particular tv show) that it was all crap and only idiots watched it etc etc was the exact definition of being a dick and attempting to troll. I know this because I was the mod of the forum at the time. Now look at the forum charter again.

There is pretty much one rule on this forum : if you cannot discuss in a civil manner, and I mean discuss, not soapbox or attack, then you have absolutely no business posting here and I have no qualms about removing your ability to do so.

This forum is for people that have in interest in cryptocurrencies, blockchain and their application to financial investments. that can be positive or negative but if you really feel the need to start pulling out memes / hiding insults in imaginary hashtags / attacking personalities or just generally being a dick there are other forums you can post in where I will let the local mods determine if it is within the scope of allowable behaviour. Here, it is not.

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Frunchy

kippy wrote: »

IT is a big area, in fact making the statement that you have above suggests you don't understand that.

No sh.it, but anyone with a more than passing interest in technology is aware of what bitcoin is.

Frunchy

JJJJNR wrote: »

Ever tell you about the cleaner in my office back in 2009 that was an expert in cryptocurrencies.

He's still the cleaner.

I'm a doctor.

kippy

Frunchy wrote: »

No sh.it, but anyone with a more than passing interest in technology is aware of what bitcoin is.

I know plenty that aren't and of those that do, most have only become aware of it in the past 18 months.

JJJJNR

Frunchy wrote: »

I'm a doctor.

Horses for courses. I deleted that post as I didnt want to side track the thread, into another b*tch session.

TallyRand

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........it’s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

If not why has the price been so volatile compared to any other investment market? Forex doesn’t have a patch on crypto.

If you can’t concede on ponzi / pyramid schemes, then surely there can be no doubt of the massive, massive amount of pump and dump scams on the 1,000 plus “coins”........same principle as pyramid scheme, get in early and catch the late entrants.

It’s non stop the last few years lads

[Deleted User]

Cognitive dissonance..

They believe in the technology..
That sort of craic just does not compute..

JJJJNR

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So heres my timeline on it,

“During the gold rush its a good time to be in the pick and shovel business”

― Mark Twain

Great post if a little hypocritical, blockchain is bad and banks are bad, ok. You made a ton of cash on the crypto boom as a service provider, yet you don't want that again because, well "autistic spectrum basement dwellers" we're supposed to take this seriously but it sounds like you have a dose of the narcissism.

Eric Cartman

JJJJNR wrote: »

Great post if a little hypocritical, blockchain is bad and banks are bad, ok. You made a ton of cash on the crypto boom as a service provider, yet you don't want that again because, well "autistic spectrum basement dwellers" we're supposed to take this seriously but it sounds like you have a dose of the narcissism.

-blockchain is fine, the tech is pretty sound and definitely is a step forward, blockchain currencies maybe not right now.

-banks are bad , not necessarily, don't think I said that.

-I am a massive narcissist

-I don't want it again because it completely upset the price of computer hardware for people not playing with crypto coins, and I'm just sick of hearing about the alleged millions everyone else is supposedly making in this, from people who ask for 50 quid on the week before payday.

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it..

What part of this do you not understand? I gave you wikipedia and you said that couldn't possibly be right, then the oxford dictionary. Here's the cambridge dictionary version:

a way of deceiving investors (= people giving money to a company hoping to get more back) in which money that a company receives from new customers is not invested to their advantage, but is used instead to pay debts owed to existing customers

Now, WHO set up this scheme? Who? Who is going around deceiving people?

The only one 'wriggling' out of it is you. Exact definitions? What other sort of definitions are there in the world?

TallyRand wrote:

If not why has the price been so volatile compared to any other investment market? Forex doesn’t have a patch on crypto.

Because its a nascent market and because as all of you have pointed out (and all the rest of us are aware of), it's highly speculative. People invest of their own free will - there's no pyramid scheme here with someone driving them to do so. That's their decision despite the fact that you don't like it.

TallyRand wrote:

massive amount of pump and dump scams on the 1,000 plus “coins”........same principle as pyramid scheme, get in early and catch the late entrants.

Market manipulation happens in all markets - ask George Soros! Smaller nascent markets are much more susceptible. However, once again, there is no pyramid scheme here. You can refer to pump and dumps all day long - I'd actively encourage you to - but using pyramid scheme or ponzi scheme is totally disingenuous.

Deleted User wrote:

Cognitive dissonance..

They believe in the technology..
That sort of craic just does not compute..

Another lad that needs a dictionary. Maybe we can crowdfund and raise a few satoshi towards one here for ye both...

Where - prey tell - is the cognitive dissonance? You can't consider the proposition without considering the technology that's at its core....ffs..

grindle

TallyRand wrote: »

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........it’s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

If not why has the price been so volatile compared to any other investment market? Forex doesn’t have a patch on crypto.

If you can’t concede on ponzi / pyramid schemes, then surely there can be no doubt of the massive, massive amount of pump and dump scams on the 1,000 plus “coins”........same principle as pyramid scheme, get in early and catch the late entrants.

It’s non stop the last few years lads

Well yeah, there are P&Ds being organised all the time. There's one on Funfair this evening for no reason other than shilling crap to people who pay too much attention to shills.
I don't care if you buy ETH or not, I think enterprises in the future will buy into services on top of the platform (which use ETH as a gas in order to compute the contract) in order to cut costs, streamline and to have an extremely auditable ledger that can't be edited/falsified.
The market's illiquid enough to cause P&Ds on the largest coins but the projects are mostly years away from solving scalability. Newly minted millionaires can now affect markets at their whim and in cartels - as the project continues to go on with development which is years from being production-ready, nothing to do with the price.

Low liquidity? Market spreads that can change extremely quickly? We all know there's rampant manipulation. Doesn't affect the development at all.

grindle

Where'd that pic post go Johnny? I liked that.

Edit: here it is.

Good company site, very informative.

JohnnyFlash

grindle wrote: »

Where'd that pic post go Johnny? I liked that.

Edit: here it is.

Good company site, very informative.

There it is. You've a nasty streak on you a mile long.

grindle

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There it is. You've a nasty streak on you a mile long.

Ah now, I'd call it "sassy". I'd say you're probably sound tbf.

JJJJNR

Eric Cartman wrote: »

-blockchain is fine, the tech is pretty sound and definitely is a step forward, blockchain currencies maybe not right now.

-banks are bad , not necessarily, don't think I said that.

-I am a massive narcissist

-I don't want it again because it completely upset the price of computer hardware for people not playing with crypto coins, and I'm just sick of hearing about the alleged millions everyone else is supposedly making in this, from people who ask for 50 quid on the week before payday.

Your perfect for the old crypto shill, would you not give it a go. The tech has moved on completely from the early days. bittube (monero based), sentinel.co (eth) to name a couple of crypto based applications, which I think have a real chance of catching on, both of which have coins on the market.

makeorbrake

JJJJNR wrote: »

Your perfect for the old crypto shill, would you not give it a go. The tech has moved on completely from the early days. bittube (monero based), sentinel.co (eth) to name a couple of crypto based applications, which I think have a real chance of catching on, both of which have coins on the market.

Steady on there or you'll be getting a 'pyramid scheme notification' in the post.

cooperguy

JJJJNR wrote: »

Your perfect for the old crypto shill, would you not give it a go. The tech has moved on completely from the early days. bittube (monero based), sentinel.co (eth) to name a couple of crypto based applications, which I think have a real chance of catching on, both of which have coins on the market.

Genuine question, when you own coins do you actually own a share of the technology or just an output of what the technology produces? One has intrinsic value, the other is a technology demonstration?

makeorbrake

cooperguy wrote: »

Genuine question, when you own coins do you actually own a share of the technology or just an output of what the technology produces? One has intrinsic value, the other is a technology demonstration?

The tech is generally open source. You're not buying a share in a company - there isn't one per se. It's a play on the demand on the 'coin' going up as the network matures and builds momentum. That's not a concept everyone here agrees with but everyone has to make their own mind up.

worded

Forbes - Bitcoin - the trade of the decade

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/katinastefanova/2018/11/28/the-trade-of-the-decade-betting-on-bitcoin/amp/

JJJJNR

https://www.ccn.com/mobile-forum-giant-tapatalk-will-reward-its-300-million-users-with-kin-cryptocurrency/

[Deleted User]

TallyRand wrote:

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........itâ€™s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

I'm st waiting for someone to actually explain how it's not like a Pyramid scheme. All replies so far sticker to be structure of a pyramid scheme & igno the important part, the investment itself. Or lack of being more to the point.

It is like a pyramid scheme because in both you invest in an idea & not something tangible. In both cases if/when the bubble bursts you have no assets. Let's take bitcoin for example. If it goes bust there isn't even a bitcoin head office or branches that might be considered assets. You don't even own a piece of the blockchain technology

grindle

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm st waiting for someone to actually explain how it's not like a Pyramid scheme. All replies so far sticker to be structure of a pyramid scheme & igno the important part, the investment itself. Or lack of being more to the point.

It is like a pyramid scheme because in both you invest in an idea & not something tangible. In both cases if/when the bubble bursts you have no assets. Let's take bitcoin for example. If it goes bust there isn't even a bitcoin head office or branches that might be considered assets. You don't even own a piece of the blockchain technology

It's already been explained to you. That your reading of it is still "Nah, that's a pyramid scheme" it smacks of a heightened level of wilful ignorance.
In the case of Bitcoin, if somebody wants to buy space in the oldest and most secure immutable permissionless ledger which a bunch of other people place value in and they're willing to pay the cost then that's what they get.
We all agree it's over-speculated and manipulated, but it's also the largest network and biggest brand.
You don't have to value it and don't see a need to value it, others do. It's a scarce commodity with very low makret liquidity - the price is going to be extremely volatile and heavily manipulated.

"Oh, but early adopters gaining more benefit makes it a pyramid scheme!'
Does that mean the rarities in my record collection are pyramid schemes?
Danger: Record collecting is a pyramid scheme says man who doesn't abide by the definition of pyramid schemes and prefers to think of any rare item accruing value as a pyramid scheme.

smacl

TallyRand wrote: »

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........it’s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

Big difference between crypto and a pyramid or ponzi scheme is that crypto wasn't set up with this in mind. Once prices started going up, people's greed and FOMO got manipulated for sure, and there is no doubt that this is what the game play was for many ICOs. That said, there's quite a bit to crypto than this and a hell of a lot more to blockchain.

So for example, I note in yesterday's Irish Times, that DCU will be including blockchain in their new emerging technology program.

IT wrote:

Mr Dattoli told The Irish Times that, in addition to the new Intel incubator, the campus is also to host a new “VC in Residence” programme and an on-site innovation school focused on areas such as coding, blockchain and artificial and virtual reality.

Lots of Irish companies including state bodies looking at blockchain for all sorts of purposes.

smacl

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

They really are the worst of humanity. Greedy, wasteful and smug types who knew it all.

Really? So the likes of those litter coin are the worst of humanity? As are the folks at IBM organising blockchain developers for distribution of disaster aid?

And what exactly makes you a better human? :rolleyes:

LoLth

"crypto currency is a pyramid scheme" is a bit like stating "email is identity theft".

Its picking a negative aspect of a technology and defining the entire field by that single activity.

Are crypto currencies capable of being used to create a pyramid scheme , yes, absolutely they are. But so are telesales and "grass roots" door to door sales or even Franchise agreements.

I do think though that the whole acceptance of "pump-and-dump" in crypto currency markets is horrifying and market manipulation at its worst, and, to me, the biggest argument for regulation.

Is blockchain a pyramid scheme? No. its a technology that has many uses, not all of them better than the alternatives but even as a value added feature it can be useful for more than just crypto currency.

Perhaps the reason you are having trouble accepting an answer to your question is that you have not framed it correctly. Instead of broad statements that are impossible to answer without exceptions or exclusions you should be asking: "Is X crypto currency a pyramid scheme?" or "can blockchain be used for crime?" or "which currencies have market protection?" or "how do I best insulate against a collapse of a currency"

JJJJNR

When I buy a coin for .02 cent, and the coin gains .08 cent in value so is now trading at .10 cent. At this point if I decide to sell at this point I make .08 cent profit on my coin. If hold and the price could drops to .02 cent again or less and I sell I either break even or make a loss. I haven't invited anyone to join in, so it's not a pyramid scheme. I take all the risk so it's my fault for not doing due diligence on the project if I lose everything.

smacl

JJJJNR wrote: »

When I buy a coin for .02 cent, and the coin gains .08 cent in value so is now trading at .10 cent. At this point if I decide to sell at this point I make .08 cent profit on my coin. If hold and the price could drops to .02 cent again or less and I sell I either break even or make a loss. I haven't invited anyone to join in, so it's not a pyramid scheme. I take all the risk so it's my fault for not doing due diligence on the project if I lose everything.

Agreed entirely, but if say I bought the coin at 0.02c, shilled the beyjasus out of it and started posting referral links to all and sundry? Both happen, but in all honesty I think the shills in this forum are rare enough and easily spotted, which is why I reckon TheAnalyst's conclusion that we are "the worst of humanity. Greedy, wasteful and smug types who knew it all." is as inaccurate as it is offensive. Some are, most aren't.

Sabre0001

Seems to have hit some sort of bounce. People picking up coins on the cheap, people going for quick profits as other people get back on the bandwagon, or the start of a recovery? Time will tell.

Not "worried" - threw in very little and not any more than I was willing to lose. Won't be a millionaire off it, but curious to see where it goes.

Eric Cartman

JJJJNR wrote: »

When I buy a coin for .02 cent, and the coin gains .08 cent in value so is now trading at .10 cent. At this point if I decide to sell at this point I make .08 cent profit on my coin. If hold and the price could drops to .02 cent again or less and I sell I either break even or make a loss. I haven't invited anyone to join in, so it's not a pyramid scheme. I take all the risk so it's my fault for not doing due diligence on the project if I lose everything.

But what if the mechanisms for pulling out and converting it back to fiat are slow, faulty, limited or expensive, what if you try to cash out at .1 cent , the exchange offers you .08, by the time the order completes its worth .06 and you can only take back out half what you put in , then the givernment taxes you so effectively keep .04, ok you doubled your money but filling out tax forms and getting the transfer acomplished took 10 hours of your life, you normally make 20 quid an hour , you need to be up more than 200 euro on that withdrawl after tax to make it a sound investment.

JJJJNR

if that happens you haven't completed due diligence. It's your money at the end of the day. Need an entry and an exit strategy. Research is key don't suffer fomo.

smacl

Eric Cartman wrote: »

But what if the mechanisms for pulling out and converting it back to fiat are slow, faulty, limited or expensive, what if you try to cash out at .1 cent , the exchange offers you .08, by the time the order completes its worth .06 and you can only take back out half what you put in , then the givernment taxes you so effectively keep .04, ok you doubled your money but filling out tax forms and getting the transfer acomplished took 10 hours of your life, you normally make 20 quid an hour , you need to be up more than 200 euro on that withdrawl after tax to make it a sound investment.

You make it sound that someone is advocating purchasing crypto as a good investment, whereas no one is doing that. What people here are actually saying is that having done their own research, which includes risk assessment and understanding buying and selling costs, they are are willing to make what they fully understand is a high risk investment.