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Home heating automation

[Deleted User]

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

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punisher5112

maxamillius wrote: »

Never actually checked if the HW heats with stat down, will check that when I get oil this week, ran out....again!!

How do I get the netatmo to switch the boiler on and also control the pump?

Bypass your time clock or where you manually switch it on.

You need the permanent live and fed live to boiler.

Basically these are just a damn fancy switch when the temp is set it turns on the boiler.

I honestly don't know how we done without them over the years.

maxamillius

punisher5112 wrote: »

Bypass your time clock or where you manually switch it on.

You need the permanent live and fed live to boiler.

Basically these are just a damn fancy switch when the temp is set it turns on the boiler.

I honestly don't know how we done without them over the years.

I have to manually switch on the boiler and then the stat is wired to the pump (I assume)

So if I replace the stat with a netatmo, all that will Control is the pump, I would still need to manually turn on the boiler, no?

punisher5112

maxamillius wrote: »

I have to manually switch on the boiler and then the stat is wired to the pump (I assume)

So if I replace the stat with a netatmo, all that will Control is the pump, I would still need to manually turn on the boiler, no?

You replace the part you switch on manually as in the relay in the netatamo device. This acts as if you just flicked a switch that is all.

john_doe.

Some great deals on Drayton gear at moment:

https://www.cityplumbing.co.uk/spotlight/Black_Friday_Heating?q=:relevance:Brand:Drayton&text=Black_Friday_Heating

reignschaos

deezell wrote: »

Do you have a phase tester screwdiver? The grey and orange wires are the connections to the valve relay. Live will go in on one and switched live to fire the boiler out on the other. Whichever one goes live only when its zone is on is tye correct one, the other will be connected to permanent live.

@Deezell just ran a multimeter test on the wires.
Orange runs at 240V
Grey runs at 50V when boiler is off and 240V when boiler is on.

Therefore a feed from Grey to my Channel 3(HW On) is what I need it seems.

Quick one, I assume I still need to connect N and L to ensure the unit has power (is powered) in addition to my Channel 3??

Thanks

deezell

reignschaos wrote: »

@Deezell just ran a multimeter test on the wires.
Orange runs at 240V
Grey runs at 50V when boiler is off and 240V when boiler is on.

Therefore a feed from Grey to my Channel 3(HW On) is what I need it seems.

Quick one, I assume I still need to connect N and L to ensure the unit has power (is powered) in addition to my Channel 3??

Thanks

Yes. The ext kit is permanently powered and paired to the bridge. The mode jumper in position 2 . Follow the instructions to add the extension kit as a device by logging on to Tado on a pc, (not the app afaik). Next you have to pair it to the bridge. After that you should get the HW panel in the app and be able to use the app to click the HW live on terminal 3 on and off.
The 50v you are measuring on the grey wire when the boiler is off and neither motorised valve is sending live to it seems odd. It may be some residual voltage coming back from the firing sensor board in the boiler, I wouldn't worry about it, as all you want to do is add an extra source of switched live to fire it.

deezell

maxamillius wrote: »

I have to manually switch on the boiler and then the stat is wired to the pump (I assume)

So if I replace the stat with a netatmo, all that will Control is the pump, I would still need to manually turn on the boiler, no?

Correct if it is gravity system. Otherwise, if the stat is used to fire the boiler and power the pump ( once the panel switch is ON), then you have a single pumped zone system, HW and CH together. If the boiler can fire and heat HW with the stat off and CH off, then it is a gravity system, the stat only controls the pump and HW should heat once the boiler is ON from it's front panel switch/timer. Because a smart stat is both timer and temperature controller in one, you normally just turn the boiler ON/TImer permanently on. In a single pumped system the boiler will only fire according to the stat schedule. If it is a gravity systen and the stat is wired only to the pump, then turning the boiler panel ON full will mean that the boiler will fire until it heats up its internal water up to the boiler panel stat temperature, and it will then cut out and remain in standby until the water cools by heating the cylinder HW by gravity, or by circulating to the rads when the wall smart stat schedule begins. You may not want your boiler in this pre heated state 24/7, especially during the summer when CH is rarely needed, so a good compromise is to switch the panel from ON to Timed and set some fully off periods, say during the night. Of course if this timer is off then the stat schedule can't fire the boiler, it can only turn on the pump.
If you have a gravity plumbed system, you can configure a Tado ext kit to act in a two zone gravity mode. In this case the CH stat still only operates the pump, but the ext kit HW relay is wired to fire the boiler for either a HW or a CH timed event. This way the boiler is not constantly firing and heating its internal water until required, which can be inefficient.

deezell

judeboy101 wrote: »

Quick question I've netatmo thermostat and smart trvs on all upstairs rads (4) . All worked brill last yr but this yr 2 of them are eating through the batteries. Heating goes on twice a day for 1 hr (I only heat house mid nov to mid apr) and maybe the odd midday boost if the missus complains. I'm on my 2nd set of batteries on 2 of the trv's. Last yr on same winter schedule I changed 1 trv once

Check if TRV heads are fitted right, not skewed. Take them off and check that the actuator pin is not tight or stiff, a stiff pin will load the battery. Are the bateries of high quality? Some Dealz bulk packs might be poor, though Ford brand from there tested very high on an independent alkaline battery test site. Polaroid brand also.
Finally, did you move or change location of the hub? Any extra smart devices? It's possible TRVs are working harder to get a clear signal, using higher battery drain.

judeboy101

deezell wrote: »

Check if TRV heads are fitted right, not skewed. Take them off and check that the actuator pin is not tight or stiff, a stiff pin will load the battery. Are the bateries of high quality? Some Dealz bulk packs might be poor, though Ford brand from there tested very high on an independent alkaline battery test site. Polaroid brand also.
Finally, did you move or change location of the hub? Any extra smart devices? It's possible TRVs are working harder to get a clear signal, using higher battery drain.

Changed to new batteries but still reading as batteries dead , very weird.

Soarer

Lads, have 3no. Nest Thermostats installed, and Mrs. S really doesn't like them.

Firstly, the auto schedule kicked in not long after we installed them, and had the rooms toasty warm before we ever got up. Most people would like that, but not herself! So turned off auto schedule.
This morning, "someone" went to bed last night and left the heating at 20. So it obviously maintained that all night, and again unhappiness this morning.

Is there a way to schedule the thermostats to drop down to 14 (or something) at night, so it can't be left on by mistake?
Also, is there a way to boost the heating like the water?

deezell

Soarer wrote: »

Lads, have 3no. Nest Thermostats installed, and Mrs. S really doesn't like them.

Firstly, the auto schedule kicked in not long after we installed them, and had the rooms toasty warm before we ever got up. Most people would like that, but not herself! So turned off auto schedule.
This morning, "someone" went to bed last night and left the heating at 20. So it obviously maintained that all night, and again unhappiness this morning.

Is there a way to schedule the thermostats to drop down to 14 (or something) at night, so it can't be left on by mistake?
Also, is there a way to boost the heating like the water?

Haha, RTFM!
Seriously though, the Tado stat is hugly versatile. To create a schedule for any zone just tap the little thermometer/calendar icon on the top right of the zone page. This opens the schedule. At the bottom choose a weekly, midweek- Sat-Sun, or daily schedule. Click on the schedule bar to change the time duration and temperature of a slot. Repeat for other days if not weekly. To add an extra time slot click the blue + button and click the schedule bar where you want to insert extra slots. Adjust the start time, duration and temperature of these. Adding a slot or changing time of an existing slot automatically adjusts adjacent slots. You can turn the temp right down for night say, which us effectively turning the heating off for this slot in this zone.
Your other issue was a manual adjust stayed on all night. You can set manual adjusts to last only for a set duration. On the App, from the menu select Settings/zonename/Manual control on Tado device/ Manual control on tado device (its the same name on both pages). Here you can chose how a manual adjustment is terminated, either by the next scheduled slot, by timer, or manually on the app. Choose timer and set it to something like 20 mins. Repeat for all 3 zones

view?usp=drivesdk

Do you have the extension kit and the HW zone implemented?

Soarer

Thanks for all that deezel.

Unfortunately I use Nests!

Black_Knight

Lack of boost is a pain with the nest. I found its autoscheduling was quite dumb. Newborn baby, nest set my heating to 16 degrees at 1am for the night.

Removed my nest, made my own thermostat, built a dedicated boost button. Happy days.

lawred2

one thing is for sure where home heating automation is concerned

Hive + Alexa = rubbish

The Hive Development team should be embarrassed at such a pathetic attempt at integration

Officer Giggles

lawred2 wrote: »

one thing is for sure where home heating automation is concerned

Hive + Alexa = rubbish

The Hive Development team should be embarrassed at such a pathetic attempt at integration

How come you say that, I've the Hive due for delivery tomorrow

deezell

Soarer wrote: »

Thanks for all that deezel.

Unfortunately I use Nests!

Oh sorry! I should RTFP properly!. I haven't set a nest for a good while, I'm sure its something similar on the app. I'm sure it has a way to return a boost in temperature back to the schedule.

lawred2

Officer Giggles wrote: »

How come you say that, I've the Hive due for delivery tomorrow

Hive itself is fine on its own - the controllers are nice and it works well

Just forget about integrating it with Alexa for a while until they pull their finger out

deezell

Black_Knight wrote: »

Lack of boost is a pain with the nest. I found its autoscheduling was quite dumb. Newborn baby, nest set my heating to 16 degrees at 1am for the night.

Removed my nest, made my own thermostat, built a dedicated boost button. Happy days.

For the many here who might baulk at building a stat from scratch to get the functionality they want vi sa vi voice, echo, alexa etc, there is a doable medium. Most smart stats can be controlled by the IFTTT app, and its a small learning curve to make Applets on this to give you a boost button on your phone, or even by ' Ok Google' voice commands. I made one for Tado, ' OK google, Boost heat', and it just turns up the temp for 30 minutes. I sure the other brand stats are equally amenable to control by IFTTT.

lawred2

deezell wrote: »

For the many here who might baulk at building a stat from scratch to get the functionality they want vi sa vi voice, echo, alexa etc, there is a doable medium. Most smart stats can be controlled by the IFTTT app, and its a small learning curve to make Applets on this to give you a boost button on your phone, or even by ' Ok Google' voice commands. I made one for Tado, ' OK google, Boost heat', and it just turns up the temp for 30 minutes. I sure the other brand stats are equally amenable to control by IFTTT.

I use IFTTT to manage the front door light according to sunset/sunrise

Might have a look at what I can do with Alexa and IFTTT

Cheers

maxamillius

deezell wrote: »

Correct if it is gravity system. Otherwise, if the stat is used to fire the boiler and power the pump ( once the panel switch is ON), then you have a single pumped zone system, HW and CH together. If the boiler can fire and heat HW with the stat off and CH off, then it is a gravity system, the stat only controls the pump and HW should heat once the boiler is ON from it's front panel switch/timer. Because a smart stat is both timer and temperature controller in one, you normally just turn the boiler ON/TImer permanently on. In a single pumped system the boiler will only fire according to the stat schedule. If it is a gravity systen and the stat is wired only to the pump, then turning the boiler panel ON full will mean that the boiler will fire until it heats up its internal water up to the boiler panel stat temperature, and it will then cut out and remain in standby until the water cools by heating the cylinder HW by gravity, or by circulating to the rads when the wall smart stat schedule begins. You may not want your boiler in this pre heated state 24/7, especially during the summer when CH is rarely needed, so a good compromise is to switch the panel from ON to Timed and set some fully off periods, say during the night. Of course if this timer is off then the stat schedule can't fire the boiler, it can only turn on the pump.
If you have a gravity plumbed system, you can configure a Tado ext kit to act in a two zone gravity mode. In this case the CH stat still only operates the pump, but the ext kit HW relay is wired to fire the boiler for either a HW or a CH timed event. This way the boiler is not constantly firing and heating its internal water until required, which can be inefficient.

Think I’m finally beginning to understand central heating etc, so basically if I have the tado with extension kit, the tado stat replaces my current wall stat and then I wire my boiler feed into one of the contacts say HW in the extension kit, basically giving me the choice to switch the boiler on with out the stat or switch both on at same time.

So from the app I can switch on the boiler and also control the thermostat.

reignschaos

deezell wrote: »

Yes. The ext kit is permanently powered and paired to the bridge. The mode jumper in position 2 . Follow the instructions to add the extension kit as a device by logging on to Tado on a pc, (not the app afaik). Next you have to pair it to the bridge. After that you should get the HW panel in the app and be able to use the app to click the HW live on terminal 3 on and off.
The 50v you are measuring on the grey wire when the boiler is off and neither motorised valve is sending live to it seems odd. It may be some residual voltage coming back from the firing sensor board in the boiler, I wouldn't worry about it, as all you want to do is add an extra source of switched live to fire it.

@Deezell, So I wired up my Tado Extension Kit this evening and all went well (well at least I didn't kill myself or blow up the house...so I see that as well

)

I wired up the Ext Kit to Live, Neutral, Channel 3 (HW On from grey) and earth (hidden away, nearly missed it), the only snag I hit was the brown wire from the boiler wasn't a live wire (or at least it wouldn't work as a live one...there was voltage going through it mind). I had initially connected the Ext Kit live to the brown wire but the Ext Kit would not power up, so I wired the Live on the Ext Kit to Orange which we know was permanent live.

So my wiring ended up as follows-

Extension Kit Boiler Wires
Live Orange
Neutral Blue
Earth Yellow/Green
Channel 3 - Hot Water On Gray

End result, a happy Tado Extension Kit wired up in my hot press and I can now call for hot water without the Central Heating being on.

@Deezell without your guidance, I would not have achieved this, thanking you kindly.

deezell

reignschaos wrote: »

@Deezell, So I wired up my Tado Extension Kit this evening and all went well (well at least I didn't kill myself or blow up the house...so I see that as well )

I wired up the Ext Kit to Live, Neutral, Channel 3 (HW On from grey) and earth (hidden away, nearly missed it), the only snag I hit was the brown wire from the boiler wasn't a live wire (or at least it wouldn't work as a live one...there was voltage going through it mind). I had initially connected the Ext Kit live to the brown wire but the Ext Kit would not power up, so I wired the Live on the Ext Kit to Orange which we know was permanent live.

So my wiring ended up as follows-

Extension Kit Boiler Wires
Live Orange
Neutral Blue
Earth Yellow/Green
Channel 3 - Hot Water On Gray

End result, a happy Tado Extension Kit wired up in my hot press and I can now call for hot water without the Central Heating being on.

@Deezell without your guidance, I would not have achieved this, thanking you kindly.

Result, tho the brown wire from left field is curious, (possible switched live to the CH valve?). Anyway, no need to worry, you're up and running.

reignschaos

deezell wrote: »

Result, tho the brown wire from left field is curious, (possible switched live to the CH valve?). Anyway, no need to worry, you're up and running.

@Deezell, oh yea, got me left field too

When I get a chance I plan to take another look at that wiring, there was a black wire in the mix and to me that is usually used for a switched live but my gut tells me my heating wiring is just messed up and trying to untangle it is probably not worth my sanity yet I'm one of those people who doesn't like not knowing :rolleyes:

Lucifer

Black_Knight wrote: »

Lack of boost is a pain with the nest. I found its autoscheduling was quite dumb. Newborn baby, nest set my heating to 16 degrees at 1am for the night.

Removed my nest, made my own thermostat, built a dedicated boost button. Happy days.

Any info on what you used to build your own? I'm considering trying to do something similar.

super_sweeney

quick one guys, I have a Climote.... its ok does the basics. Was thinking of going to the Tado.... anyone done this or know if its a good idea or even worth it, as it is a fairly expensive jump,

Also on the Tado. my understanding if you loose all hard control. I.e you can no longer go and just hit a boost button on the wall all this has to be done via app on phone or tablet? Reason I ask is this could be painful for visitors as I have seen in the past with philips hue when family come visit.

GarIT

super_sweeney wrote: »

quick one guys, I have a Climote.... its ok does the basics. Was thinking of going to the Tado.... anyone done this or know if its a good idea or even worth it, as it is a fairly expensive jump,

Also on the Tado. my understanding if you loose all hard control. I.e you can no longer go and just hit a boost button on the wall all this has to be done via app on phone or tablet? Reason I ask is this could be painful for visitors as I have seen in the past with philips hue when family come visit.

The thermostats all have up and down buttons for adjusting the current temperature. In the app settings you can set how long you want manual adjustments to stay.

limnam

super_sweeney wrote: »

quick one guys, I have a Climote.... its ok does the basics. Was thinking of going to the Tado.... anyone done this or know if its a good idea or even worth it, as it is a fairly expensive jump,

Also on the Tado. my understanding if you loose all hard control. I.e you can no longer go and just hit a boost button on the wall all this has to be done via app on phone or tablet? Reason I ask is this could be painful for visitors as I have seen in the past with philips hue when family come visit.

You can control manually from the smart stat.

If you go down the road of Tado radiator stats for logical zoning you can also manually increase the temp pretty much as you would with any TRV.

You can also control with voice via alexa/google etc

super_sweeney

limnam wrote: »

You can control manually from the smart stat.

If you go down the road of Tado radiator stats for logical zoning you can also manually increase the temp pretty much as you would with any TRV.

You can also control with voice via alexa/google etc

Yeah thats pretty much what I was thinking the only reason i would be doing it is for the TRV and air quality monitoring. But i dont think these benefits are enough for the investment as i would need the starter kit plus two thermostats to start.

lintdrummer

Wondering if anyone can advise a suitable system for my house...

We've a gas boiler. Fairly old, analogue clock switch below it which we use to turn it on. There's an analogue thermostat then in the kitchen which seems to only switch off the circulation pump when the set temp is reached.

Water is heated anytime the CH is on. It's a normal immersion with no timer, just the sink/bath switch.

Only just moved into the house but would love greater control and consistency in the heating.

One of my main questions is that this is a one zone house at present if my understanding is correct. If I were to buy a smart thermostat (currently favouring the Drayton Wiser), would I be as well to get one with heating and water to allow for future work to add that functionality?

Also considering replacing the boiler at some stage, maybe even for a combi boiler. I'd like to get smart functionality going asap with smart TRVs in the sitting room/bedroom. Would it be a waste installing smart heating controls now only to replace the type of boiler in a year or so?

Sorry if this is the kind of thing that's been covered but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I should do...

john_doe.

Drayton Wiser is now live in Ireland.
Got a tweet off them.