end of the road wrote: » because the children are entitled to be supported. it's as simple as that. we all have our own problems. the supports are for the children, not the parents. it so happens the supports will be given to the parents. removing those supports are unlikely to do anything more then make those children suffer, which is not an option. if such supports really do incentivise people to have children and end up in whatever situation, it's likely a very very small minority, and there really is no guarantee that removing the supports would change that issue, for which such an attempt would be at the expence of the children. so yes, it's likely that keeping the supports is really the only option. i really do think that if there was another option, another idea would have been tried.
end of the road wrote: » all well good in typing that, and it would have merit in an ideal world and it would be the case in an ideal world. it doesn't deal with actual reality in the real world however. no amount of typing or saying "don't have children if you can't afford them" will change the reality that people do have children, when in a situation where they are receiving supports from the state. whether you like it or not, providing supports for the parents and their children is the only realistic option on the table..
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Sadly, a lot of the people on this thread seem to be suffering from out-group homogeneity bias.
Which is why I tried to make the point that settled people are not grouped into one group, yet they have committed the majority of serious crimes (murders etc) in this country.
If you were to take the majority of this thread as gospel, travellers assault everyone, steal, constantly fight, none want to go to education beyond Junior Cert.
Jerichoholic wrote: » Why not give her her own television show?
Ruraldweller56 wrote: » And it's those of us who try to do the responsible thing that wind up picking up the tab. Sure to hell with the rest of us. It's no one else's business how many children people like Margaret Cash choose to have. I don't see why I should be paying for it. I've my own problems.
givyjoe wrote: » Stop providing the supports and remove the incentive for many of these idiots to get themselves into this mess in the first place. Keeping this endless cycle going is far, far from the only option.
gmisk wrote: » Probation...zzz She only has 38 previous convictions....
gormdubhgorm wrote: » The travellers are culturally into. Men into boxing, traditional music, and horses. A lot of the women are extremely religious. Events could be created so common values could be shared etc etc If people got to know each other things could look a bit brighter in the future.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Paddy Cow wrote: » I already answered this What do you think we should do with travellers? Seriously. You've put a lot of effort into posts trying to convince us all that we just have some group think mentality against them but you're not offering up a lot any solutions yourself. My solution would be to encourage more positive interaction with travellers and non-travellers If people get to know each other they would be less inclined to have preconceived notions of each other and would be less inclined to treat each other with suspicion. Similar to cross community initiatives in NI, they used to fire bullets at each other, and bomb each other not so long ago. The travellers are culturally into. Men into boxing, traditional music, and horses. A lot of the women are extremely religious. Events could be created so common values could be shared etc etc If people got to know each other things could look a bit brighter in the future.
Paddy Cow wrote: » I already answered this What do you think we should do with travellers? Seriously. You've put a lot of effort into posts trying to convince us all that we just have some group think mentality against them but you're not offering up a lot any solutions yourself.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » Perhaps they could give her a top floor apartment and call it Cash in the Attic?
end of the road wrote: » all well good in typing that, and it would have merrit in an ideal world and it would be the case in an ideal world. it doesn't deal with actual reality in the real world however. no amount of typing or saying "don't have children if you can't afford them" will change the reality that people do have children, when in a situation where they are receiving supports from the state. whether you like it or not, providing supports for the parents and their children is the only realistic option on the table. the liberals haven't been wrong all the way. the liberals have been realistic and have been willing to take the flack for being realistic and for not implementing things that genuinely don't work. liberals understand that sometimes their solutions don't and won't work for everyone and in every situation, but the options are better then the alternatives which likely work for nobody. we already have stick as well as carrot. what we don't have is the resources to do anything, because people continue to vote for the big 2 political parties, who continue to underfund and mismanage everything.
Car expert wrote: » Expensive times for Margerat coming with communions and confirmations.
It wasnt me123 wrote: » Don't have children then until you have your own education, career and housing sorted. It is very irresponsible to be bringing children into the world when you don't have the basic things like a roof over their heads, food and education. And then they have more children to try and push themselves up the housing list. They don't care where their children sleep, why should I. If you can't afford them/look after them/provide for them, don't have them. It isn't compulsory to be a parent.
Mad_maxx wrote: » +1 .we've had nothing but carrot for decades and it's been an abject failure, relations are worse than ever, we need stick for the next few decades. The liberals have been wrong all the way
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Your deliberately convoluting my posts I made it simple for you to understand. Now you are just playing to the gallery.What would your solution be to do with the travellers. Let's call you Taoiseach for the year what would your strategy be? Since you do not like any current efforts, have you any ideas?
Paddy Cow wrote: » What can we do with the problem of Travellers? Stop treating them like they are different. They are just as capable as any Irish person. One law for all. Accountability for everyone. Get rid of Traveller boxes on forms. Be like the CAO where it doesn't matter what background you come from, it's your hard work and merit that matters.
looksee wrote: » Make social payments and children's allowance dependent on children being in school? Not just travellers, that could apply to anyone - people wanting to home school have to establish that they are capable and are doing it so that would not be a let out. 'Police' - or at least raid on occasions - car-boot sales to make disposing of stolen tools etc harder. Introduce a proper identity card system - we are already over half way there so why not do it properly. Again this would not single out travellers but it might help reduce or stop social security fraud by everyone. And bring everyone into the tax net. Have some laws about animal care and road safety (we probably already have them) and act on them. 'Settled people' mistreating animals can be prevented from owning animals, so should people who allow horses to starve on inadequate grass or race them on main roads. Have the CAB/fraud squad/revenue investigate the people that have more vehicles etc than their (social) income might suggest possible. These are just off the top of my head, I am sure there are lots more. Yes it would require more police but there would surely be an income from it.
Squatter wrote: » The nationwide availability of free abortion on demand in a few weeks' time will solve that problem for good! Once it's in, the State can then throw the kitchen sink at women who can't afford to support the kid(s) that they're carrying yet who refused to have a free termination. Looks as though happy days are just around the corner - but for whom? (was the foregoing written tongue in cheek? I confess that I'm not sure.)
looksee wrote: » Have some laws about animal care and road safety (we probably already have them) and act on them. 'Settled people' mistreating animals can be prevented from owning animals, so should people who allow horses to starve on inadequate grass or race them on main roads.
Gravelly wrote: » Hilarious to accuse me of convoluting your posts - they are an absolute meandering mess. My solution is simple - impose the law. They won't send their kids to school - jail them.
They are driving new cars and living in new caravans with no means of income - send in CAB
Fighting at a wedding/christening/funeral/assorted family gathering - send in the riot squad. Long jail terms for persistent offending.
Drawing the dole for years - haul them in - check what jobs they've applied for, are they who they say they are, does their lifestyle match their income.
Make them obey the law like the rest of us have to, and in 5 years, you'd do more to help traveller children than any money buring education programme.
Omackeral wrote: » Omack has your back. I actually love re-posting this as it is utterly ridiculous and the poster Joeytheparrot never had the balls to respond to it once.
Gravelly wrote: » Hilarious to accuse me of convoluting your posts - they are an absolute meandering mess. My solution is simple - impose the law. They won't send their kids to school - jail them. They are driving new cars and living in new caravans with no means of income - send in CAB. Fighting at a wedding/christening/funeral/assorted family gathering - send in the riot squad. Long jail terms for persistent offending. Drawing the dole for years - haul them in - check what jobs they've applied for, are they who they say they are, does their lifestyle match their income. Make them obey the law like the rest of us have to, and in 5 years, you'd do more to help traveller children than any money buring education programme.
gormdubhgorm wrote: » Your deliberately convoluting my posts I made it simple for you to understand. Now you are just playing to the gallery. What would your solution be to do with the travellers. Let's call you Taoiseach for the year what would your strategy be? Since you do not like any current efforts, have you any ideas?
gormdubhgorm wrote: » That was the reason the Australians rounded up 'the Abbos' to educate them get them civilsed... Suddenly you have decided it could take 10s of millions of Euro's to train a traveller to be a teacher, yet in the same post say they would be better on the dole. Then you would be the very person giving out about them on the dole/dole fraud etcThey need the extra push in education because there is no role model for them a lot of thier parents would see it as a waste of time. As all you need is to add and subtract etc. Then the cycle continues and wastes more money. The access programme is an attempt to break the cycle, it might not work in every situation, but it is a start.
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