Breaky Bitcoin Blues

Deleted User wrote: »

My brother is now up around a few hundred k within the last few years and some of his friends are down hundreds of thousands.
Very clear edit, underline mine! unIronically, I Very clear edit, underline mine!pretend to know more about it than any of them. It says something about an asset when casual observers are more knowledgeable than the people investing in it.

Bitcoin fanboys really need to understand that in the rankings of financial acumen, it goes from /r/investing to /r/wallstreetbets and then /r/bitcoin at the bottom.

And then you take in all sources and all of those sources are none of those.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Well that’s an interesting take on things. ** cough **

Express yourself further sir, you are clearly an advanced personality the same as myself posting to boards @ 02:30 on a Saturday.

grindle wrote: »

And then you take in all sources and all of those sources are none of those.

It's rude to edit a person's quote without making it clear.

Why do you think I'm pretending to know more? The vast majority of bitcoin investors don't even know basic stuff like what mining is. Lightning network? They've never heard of it. Why a mining pool getting over 50% is dangerous? They've no idea.

grindle wrote: »

I'll suck that **** straight down the gullet., ta for the head's up.

Weird, dude.

I’m not one to boast, but I’ve been predicting this massive collapse since late last year.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's rude to edit a person's quote without making it clear.

Why do you think I'm pretending to know more? The vast majority of bitcoin investors don't even know basic stuff like what mining is. Lightning network? They've never heard of it. Why a mining pool getting over 50% is dangerous? They've no idea.

I've edited my post for posterity.
I agree that most pissing money into crypto at over-inflated prices have no notion what's going on. That's not a definitive barrier to entry. The main benefit to crypto which will disrupt stock markets once shares move to smart contracts is the lack of a barrier to entry. There's a rake of posts you should direct your attention to on the crypto refferals thread if you want to wax lyrical, make that your bug-bear because it's total horseshít. Bitcoin next. Try to find out why current BTC is total horseshít yet people still pour money into Blockstream faux decentralisation.

People not knowing about what they're investing in isn't a damnation of the thing they're investing in, it's a damnation of their intelligence. People can still invest in BTC and I don't think they're total shítheads, their words just carry less weight with me. Some of my best friends are similarly mentally disabled and they consider me the same for considering a truly useful coin as useful. because ETH had a coin-sale pre-mine. They consider the lib-tard money-sponge as a greater draw. People are weird yet still can be friends, eh?
"BTC is so much better because only Satoshi and like 10 other people own 20% of the coins-ish."
Yeah, great. Not that I think he'll pop out but that fúcker or those fúckers own/s too much now.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Weird, dude.

I’m not one to boast, but I’ve been predicting this massive collapse since late last year.

Whatever, I'd be glad to see the total cap hit €10b cap again. I thought a couple of years ago I'd have a couple more years yet of "cheap ETH" and ye all had me worried at the end of 2017. I'll get something close to it again, but it's very hard to tell where it is now with the wash trading and too many billions in these pockets now. We don't know where their "floor" is.

grindle, in a world full of people who think that a gross salary entering a higher tax band means they will earn less, ETH's smart contracts are far too complicated. Nevermind events like the ETH that got locked up last year when someone made a mistake that affected loads of them.

The only crypto that will work will be tied to fiat currency. There is no reason in the world for a digital currency to have an arbitrary value determined by speculation and demand.

Deleted User wrote: »

grindle, in a world full of people who think that a gross salary entering a higher tax band means they will earn less, ETH's smart contracts are far too complicated. Nevermind events like the ETH that got locked up last year when someone made a mistake that affected loads of them.

The only crypto that will work will be tied to fiat currency. There is no reason in the world for a digital currency to have an arbitrary value determined by speculation and demand.

The average person NEVER has to use an ETH contract. It's not made for them. Just because legal contracts exist does not mean you have to use them.

That's brought up often for some reason - despite crypto being more available to everyone and basically more open for scams due to this, it's not for everyone. Just because a door is open doesn't mean you have to walk through it.
Stop imagining that the only way any project succeeds is by every dollar entering crypto.
Unless we're talking decades in advance I don't really care to talk about cryptos affecting fiat currencies. They may. They may not. Neither of us know.
I kind of agree that fiat won't be immediately be replaced by a gold-a-like but could be replaced by a contract on a scalable network that accepted $1 in and $1 out as a more useful money sponge if the real world ever decided how much money has been stolen as of now. The whole world is at least $250trillion in debt. Low ball-park. Up to quadrillions in recursive debts depending on who owes whom. Who can tell? What a great way to finance the world! Sher hasn't it all gone great so far? In the western world at least. So far, apart from that minor hiccup in 2008
The reason I didn't care about Bitcoin beyond fantasy until 2016 was because I wasn't smart enough to see why it could be wanted elsewhere, I didn't understand that the trust mechanism was the novelty, not the digitalisation of money. The main pro point of Satoshi's whitepaper in an immediate sense isn't fiat being disrupted, it's that he solved how to trust multiple parties at a time. Fiat and the BTC incentive is just the easiest way to implement and show it off.
I've seen the effect of linux/gnu/any OSE on open source and on proprietary networks and I see what value being attached to contracts between individuals or companies can have - if there's an ideologically agnostic platform that everybody defaults to with a common programming language that's useful and it's simple to implement and it cuts costs... well, we've already seen the effect it can have on IPOs and this was without scaling implemented. The largest companies carry the most weight. If those largest companies decide a certain protocol is the backbone of their system after a number of trial runs and in-situ runs which are still ongoing like every biometric passport terminal in Heathrow/Schiphol/Dubai which is feeding into Microsoft and Accenture's ID2020 inititative then that gets carried forward until multiple iterations decide otherwise.
For those who say "But why public decentralised blockchain over private blockchain?"

"Why current expensive system over cost-efficient system? Why least trusted system over most trusted system?"

Source me some programmers who trust MSFT over OS programmers and then find me the programmers who trust those over them, etc etc... Development is getting more decentralised anyway as is the teaching of dev concepts but Google and MSFT are trying to bully their way in.

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/comments/a02j45

Your typical Bitcoin retards. The same as the people here.

Thread doesn't pertain to this conversation at all. Also your !=you are

grindle wrote: »

The average person NEVER has to use an ETH contract. It's not made for them. Just because legal contracts exist does not mean you have to use them.

That's brought up often for some reason - despite crypto being more available to everyone and basically more open for scams due to this, it's not for everyone. Just because a door is open doesn't mean you have to walk through it.
Stop imagining that the only way any project succeeds is by every dollar entering crypto.
Unless we're talking decades in advance I don't really care to talk about cryptos affecting fiat currencies. They may. They may not. Neither of us know.
I kind of agree that fiat won't be immediately be replaced by a gold-a-like but could be replaced by a contract on a scalable network that accepted $1 in and $1 out as a more useful money sponge if the real world ever decided how much money has been stolen as of now. The whole world is at least $250trillion in debt. Low ball-park. Up to quadrillions in recursive debts depending on who owes whom. Who can tell? What a great way to finance the world! Sher hasn't it all gone great so far? In the western world at least. So far, apart from that minor hiccup in 2008
The reason I didn't care about Bitcoin beyond fantasy until 2016 was because I wasn't smart enough to see why it could be wanted elsewhere, I didn't understand that the trust mechanism was the novelty, not the digitalisation of money. The main pro point of Satoshi's whitepaper in an immediate sense isn't fiat being disrupted, it's that he solved how to trust multiple parties at a time. Fiat and the BTC incentive is just the easiest way to implement and show it off.
I've seen the effect of linux/gnu/any OSE on open source and on proprietary networks and I see what value being attached to contracts between individuals or companies can have - if there's an ideologically agnostic platform that everybody defaults to with a common programming language that's useful and it's simple to implement and it cuts costs... well, we've already seen the effect it can have on IPOs and this was without scaling implemented. The largest companies carry the most weight. If those largest companies decide a certain protocol is the backbone of their system after a number of trial runs and in-situ runs which are still ongoing like every biometric passport terminal in Heathrow/Schiphol/Dubai which is feeding into Microsoft and Accenture's ID2020 inititative then that gets carried forward until multiple iterations decide otherwise.
For those who say "But why public decentralised blockchain over private blockchain?"

"Why current expensive system over cost-efficient system? Why least trusted system over most trusted system?"

Source me some programmers who trust MSFT over OS programmers and then find me the programmers who trust those over them, etc etc... Development is getting more decentralised anyway as is the teaching of dev concepts but Google and MSFT are trying to bully their way in.

Thread doesn't pertain to this conversation at all. Also your !=you are

"Your" is the correct word to use. As for the rest of it, I've no idea how to reply.

Deleted User wrote: »

"Your" is the correct word to use. As for the rest of it, I've no idea how to reply.

Sorry, thought you meant the pejorative "you are"

As for the rest of the reply, screencap and come back in five years?
You'll get to embarrass me greatly and have to endure many thanks from JF/PPL/whoever-else

In it for the tech.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

In it for the tech.

Love that guy. Don't let your memes be dreams Johnny!

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Weird, dude.

I’m not one to boast, but I’ve been predicting this massive collapse since late last year.

Good time to buy!

Donovan Shapely Adventurer wrote: »

Good time to buy!

What will you be buying yourself, Nox?

Frunchy

I made money off crypto. 500% return on investment.

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

Bitcoin didn’t do anything to make it worth 20k.

Bitcoin isn’t doing anything that makes it worth 3.8k.

It, and by extension, all the other magic beans shîtcoins are worth 0. That is their true value.

The whole thing was an epic bubble inflated by greed, hysteria, and fear of missing out.

Most people know what Bitcoin is and don’t want it. Same for the other cryptos. It’s never nice to be a bag holder when a scam is exposed, but it can be difficult to feel sympathy for some of them because of how smug and superior they are. The assumption you ‘just don’t get it’ if you had a diffiering opinion to them. Neckbeardism and libertarianism is a terrible combination.

My predictions for the rest of the year and next year.

Tether to finally collapse
More SEC investigations and enforcements.
At least one large exchange to be ‘hacked’.
John McAfee to overdose.
MtGox coins to flood the market
Civil war amongst the miners - more forks, 51% attacks, unused networks.
The environmental disaster that is mining to become mainstream news
Bitmain IPO to be cancelled.

Comedy gold for the sceptic.

Frunchy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Comedy gold for the sceptic.

Pretty funny for everybody involved my love, don't go hogging it. Us libertarian neckbeards are good with gallows humour.

On your predictions:

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Tether to finally collapse

Hopefully. Bullish on this prediction.

More SEC investigations and enforcements.

Obviously. Not an insightful prediction really - it's a continuation of what the SEC have been doing and have said they'll continue to do.
My prediction: Pope remains Catholic.

At least one large exchange to be ‘hacked’.

Dime a dozen, why did you bother writing this? Some shady bastard wants to rob money and somebody decides to trust their funds on his exchange? Yeah, there'll be robberies - no shít.

John McAfee to overdose.

:pac::D:pac::D
Plz not before he eats his own dick
Maybe this is what he overdoses on?

MtGox coins to flood the market

I'd thought this had happened, but if not, then good I suppose? If Bitcoin can't withstand the sell-off it doesn't deserve to exist

Civil war amongst the miners - more forks, 51% attacks, unused networks.

Yep. Power struggles ahoy.

The environmental disaster that is mining to become mainstream news

I'd thought we were already here or that this was already big news? If it's bigger news in future it means mining has increased which likely means price has increased. I'd rather that doesn't happen and traditional mining squirrels off towards more valuable tasks.

Bitmain IPO to be cancelled.

Hrmm. Possibly. This is the most interesting prediction, Jihan's defintely overexposed in so many ways. He has billions at his disposal but I don't think this matters much in terms of an IPO - people thinking of investing in such an IPO would do well to look at Hive Blockchain's drop. Not to say they're dying or dead yet but if you don't like the booms and busts it's not the right place to put your money.

More predictions Johnny! I prefer your predictions to your regurgitations. It's more like a conversation this way.

Woke Hogan

Cryptocurrencies are poisonous to the environment and its Libertarian investors are poisonous to our society. I'd say searches on eBay for "ropes" and "rickety stools" have rocketed in the past few months since Bitcoin started its freefall. No loss.

gctest50

Ya might want check for this before all yer bitcoins get stolen :

https://github.com/dominictarr/event-stream/issues/116#issuecomment-441746370

gctest50 wrote: »

Ya might want check for this before all yer bitcoins get stolen :

https://github.com/dominictarr/event-stream/issues/116#issuecomment-441746370

Can you explain what this is about for those of us who aren't overly IT literate?

One of the things that is very much ignored by the mainstream media is the astonishing amount of energy used by bitcoin miners. The proof of work concept that underlies bitcoin awards participants by asking them to use as much compute and electricity power as they can.

It now consumes far more energy daily that the entire island of Ireland. And this is a small country which is home to some of the world's largest data centers. Amazon and Microsoft are both doubling down on their cloud business, and Ireland is the location for their West Europe offering.

Other crypto scams say they are about to release alternatives to this repugnant proof-of-work scheme. But all of them lead to centralisation. And then all you have is a really slow excel spreadsheet where everyone who owns a copy has a say on which version is correct. But the more you've spent on the copy of the database the more you get to say which version is correct.

In short: Bitcoin is bollocks, cryptocurrency is made up of scammers and those who were scammed, and blockchain is the worst technology 'innovation' since the lead engine.

gctest50

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Can you explain what this is about for those of us who aren't overly IT literate?

Someone wrote a bit of code and looked after it for a while

Then ran out of spare time ( or maybe interest ) to keeping looking after it so he left someone else look after it

His little bit of code ended up in all sorts of places

Bit of code got hacked, so now if it "sees" a particular coin/wallet, it will steal all yer coins

gctest50

It tries to steal coins if it "sees" this :

https://copay.io/

the_syco

I once bought $50 bitcoin.

I used $50 bitcoin to buy a subscription from one site.

I later used $50 to buy something else.

I now have $23 bitcoin left of the original $50 bitcoin, after having spend $100 bitcoin.

I see that the price of one bitcoin has tanked from $8k to just under $5k. Seems Ether also dropped since the "hard fork" in mid November. So now may be a good time to buy a bit, but people gotta understand that it's only worth what you can use it as. No point holding onto something that won't be worth the paper its printed on should you hold it too long.

FixdePitchmark

gctest50 wrote: »

Someone wrote a bit of code and looked after it for a while

Then ran out of spare time ( or maybe interest ) to keeping looking after it so he left someone else look after it

His little bit of code ended up in all sorts of places

Bit of code got hacked, so now if it "sees" a particular coin/wallet, it will steal all yer coins

Had a massive lecture from a Bitcoin melted head on a very long drive a few months ago.

They are like religious zealots - if you ask fairly genuine question , you are just a skeptic and not with it.

1) I asked can it just be replicated ?
2) Is it too slow and can be improved on ?
3) Can it be stolen ?
4) You must view it as an investment of the highest order of risk - and could be worth nothing ?

The big thing was its advantages over other currencies - but in the next line he told me a friend of ours had all his stolen.

Does anyone genuinely trust anything on line - sure you get Russian pop ups looking at anything.

Phoebas

That node library apparently has over 2m downloads a week (seems crazy high to me, but it looks like it's a very common dependency of a bunch of other common dependencies.)

This isn't specific to cryptos, but you often hear crypto enthusiasts hail the idea that because the codebases are generally open means that malicious code is unlikely.
In reality, anything built on a complex dependency chain runs a major risk of something like this happening.

Woke Hogan

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

One of the things that is very much ignored by the mainstream media is the astonishing amount of energy used by bitcoin miners. The proof of work concept that underlies bitcoin awards participants by asking them to use as much compute and electricity power as they can.

It now consumes far more energy daily that the entire island of Ireland. And this is a small country which is home to some of the world's largest data centers. Amazon and Microsoft are both doubling down on their cloud business, and Ireland is the location for their West Europe offering.

Other crypto scams say they are about to release alternatives to this repugnant proof-of-work scheme. But all of them lead to centralisation. And then all you have is a really slow excel spreadsheet where everyone who owns a copy has a say on which version is correct. But the more you've spent on the copy of the database the more you get to say which version is correct.

In short: Bitcoin is bollocks, cryptocurrency is made up of scammers and those who were scammed, and blockchain is the worst technology 'innovation' since the lead engine.

That's very interesting. Did you know that there's a Cryptocurrency forum? I've posted in there once or twice but it seems like a bit of a circlejerk. They could use a dissenting voice or two.

the_syco

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

One of the things that is very much ignored by the mainstream media is the astonishing amount of energy used by bitcoin miners. The proof of work concept that underlies bitcoin awards participants by asking them to use as much compute and electricity power as they can.

Most of the larger "successful" bitcoin farms were built near hydroelectric dams to get cheap electricity.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It now consumes far more energy daily that the entire island of Ireland. And this is a small country which is home to some of the world's largest data centers. Amazon and Microsoft are both doubling down on their cloud business, and Ireland is the location for their West Europe offering.

Ireland is a good location for it's cool climate. Thus why Apple trying to set up cloud shop in Galway.

the_syco wrote: »

Most of the larger "successful" bitcoin farms were built near hydroelectric dams to get cheap electricity.

Ireland is a good location for it's cool climate. Thus why Apple trying to set up cloud shop in Galway.

Agreed on the second part, dude. We've a cool, wet, and fairly mundane climate. And the ESB are world leaders in facilitating HV connections to the electricity grid. They are shutting down our traditional peat and coal assets though, so there will be future challenges in our ability to produce energy without having to rely on very expensive and inefficient interconnectors.

The first part is something that is thrown around. Cheap hydro in Canada, Iceland, and Norway. The reality is that while the cost per kWh is cheap, the cost of direct grid connections, overhead, and labour costs make bitcoin quite expensive in these countries. And utilities are having to change their cost and operation models to make more from less energy consumption. So most crypto mining is done in China using coal fired plants using 90's technology.