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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

So since the last thread on this got closed and dosen't appear to be reopening any time soon. Heres a new one for you.

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Qrt

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There was a post about this over on the Throwback Thursday thread. Same sort of nonsense with the old 51s.

The “a” stands for “alter ego”, the 17a being the alter ego/evil twin of the 17.

Brian CivilEng

Seventeen and Seventeena, brother and sister buses. Wouldn't be surprised if the 17 travelled from Blackrock to Rialto via a loop through Beaumont hospital though!

Looking through the 17a timetable it looks like there are more buses overall through the day, with a 15min rather than 20min frequency for longer. Timetable reads very awkwardly though, saying "every 15mins" at random after showing the exact time for two hours worth of buses that leave every 15mins. I can't believe that they are reducing the number in the morning though, as another poster said it is standing room only by the time the westbound bus gets to Coolock.

Yer Da sells Avon

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Aye. Just odd where I keep seeing them.

The trainees aren't allowed to drive them on the M50, so they tend to take various routes through the city centre when going to and from Finglas. The M50 is just about the only place you won't see them, unless they're being driven by an instructor.

Stephen15

Go-Ahead say there will be changes made to the 75/a starting on the 2nd December. Hopefully it may involve the reversal of the riddiculous decision to run this route via Dundrum Village.
https://twitter.com/GoAheadIreland/status/1065532239944056832?s=19

salmocab

Have GA taken over the 161 does anyone know? Saw a single decker doing it the other day and wondered whether it had changed over or was it just a random issue with DB.

punisher5112

salmocab wrote: »

Have GA taken over the 161 does anyone know? Saw a single decker doing it the other day and wondered whether it had changed over or was it just a random issue with DB.

It's going on next batch, db still has it and it's a universal duty at the moment as it was removed from 14 times/duties

punisher5112

The detour the 75 takes is mind boggling.....

Very sill decision to be honest and the 14 and 175 would serve those that want to get access to luas.

The proper ticketing and fares and machine upgrade can't come quick enough.

Stephen15

salmocab wrote: »

Have GA taken over the 161 does anyone know? Saw a single decker doing it the other day and wondered whether it had changed over or was it just a random issue with DB.

They'll be taking it over in January but that could delayed till early Febuary now from what I believe. The single decker was either training or it was a DB WS class the two single decker buses which DB have for the 44b in D/Brook as I believe they're allocating them now to the 161 since they lost the 59 which was the other route they used allocate them too.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

The detour the 75 takes is mind boggling.....

Very sill decision to be honest and the 14 and 175 would serve those that want to get access to luas.

The proper ticketing and fares and machine upgrade can't come quick enough.

I know it's riddiculous and it offers little benefit for passengers. It strikes me as someone in the NTA who dosen't know the nature of this route to add insult to injury they didn't even allow for extra journey time to be built into the timetable to allow for this detour.

Hopefully it will go back to it's old route and GAI give the route a dedicated allocation rather than having the same bus and driver operating a 63 or a 45a when it gets to DL as these routes have been experiencing a knock on effect as a result of delays on the 75.

StreetLight

Timetable changes to most of GA's routes have been announced, including the revised 0700 departure of Route 175 from Citywest will be operated by two buses!

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a post from ages ago along the lines that the NTA strictly forbids Dublin Bus from using two buses on the one departure time.

https://www.goaheadireland.ie/timetable-changes-45a-45b-59-63-63a-75-75a-111-175

Qrt

StreetLight wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a post from ages ago along the lines that the NTA strictly forbids Dublin Bus from using two buses on the one departure time.

https://www.goaheadireland.ie/timetable-changes-45a-45b-59-63-63a-75-75a-111-175

65 to Blessington/Ballymore/Ballyknockan does it frequently enough afaik, BusConnects would sort the whole issue out though.

Stephen15

Revised switch over dates

2nd December: 33a, 33b, 17a, 102

20th January: 17, 104, 114, 161, 220, 236, 238, 239, 270

10th February (subject to change by NTA): 18, 76/a

Also heard that the 33b was due to operated by single deckers but may now be operated by double deckers as there have similar issues with the Portrane terminus as with the 59 terminus with the single deckers apparently.

SG317

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also heard that the 33b was due to operated by single deckers but may now be operated by double deckers as there have similar issues with the Portrane terminus as with the 59 terminus with the single deckers apparently.

That along with passenger loadings would explain why every second 33B from 10:00 a.m Monday-Sunday only goes as far as Seaview and does not continue to the Marsh Lane terminus. Hence, this duty will probably be operated by single deckers, while the other duty that goes to Marsh Lane will be Double Decker operated.

punisher5112

If they had asked any db driver they could have told them there would be issues with certain length buses.

Yer Da sells Avon

punisher5112 wrote: »

If they had asked any db driver they could have told them there would be issues with certain length buses.

On the Streetlites, the issue is more with the pathetic steering lock than the length.

punisher5112

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

On the Streetlites, the issue is more with the pathetic steering lock than the length.

The long wheel base doesn't help.

They tested many single Decker's up there since after Olympics in UK. They left it untill 2017 to replace the wv heaps of scrap.

The best bus for turning there was an EV.

Yer Da sells Avon

punisher5112 wrote: »

The long wheel base doesn't help.

They tested many single Decker's up there since after Olympics in UK. They left it untill 2017 to replace the wv heaps of scrap.

The best bus for turning there was an EV.

The long wheelbase, combined with those tiny wheels and heavy steering make it a horrible bus to drive. The ex-Oxford Citaros actually feel newer, despite being fifteen years old and having covered nearly a million miles each.

sharper

punisher5112 wrote: »

If they had asked any db driver they could have told them there would be issues with certain length buses.

They have the actual numbers from leap and the ticket machines so they have an excellent idea how many use each route.

end of the road

sharper wrote: »

They have the actual numbers from leap and the ticket machines so they have an excellent idea how many use each route.

he's not referring to usage but operation. 1 class of bus has an issue with turning in that area because of it's length.

Tickityboo

sharper wrote: »

They have the actual numbers from leap and the ticket machines so they have an excellent idea how many use each route.

Read his post again.

Yer Da sells Avon

sharper wrote: »

They have the actual numbers from leap and the ticket machines so they have an excellent idea how many use each route.

Go-Ahead have a few Ford Focuses and a C-Max. If they went strictly by numbers and nothing else, they could nearly get away with using them on the 59.

sharper

end of the road wrote: »

he's not referring to usage but operation. 1 class of bus has an issue with turning in that area because of it's length.

Sorry I thought it was about the capacity issues that forced them to switch back to double deckers elsewhere.

Someone at the NTA really likes the single deckers for some reason. Since they recently figured out how to use twitter to go on the defensive with busconnects it would be nice to see them explain what they're thinking.

Yer Da sells Avon

sharper wrote: »

Someone at the NTA really likes the single deckers for some reason.

They've never driven one.

Qrt

sharper wrote: »

Sorry I thought it was about the capacity issues that forced them to switch back to double deckers elsewhere.

Someone at the NTA really likes the single deckers for some reason. Since they recently figured out how to use twitter to go on the defensive with busconnects it would be nice to see them explain what they're thinking.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're gearing up for the O route tbh. That will be a hefty bus route considering its length and completely circular nature.

Stephen15

Qrt wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if they're gearing up for the O route tbh. That will be a hefty bus route considering its length and completely circular nature.

One of the consultants seems to think that it should be operated by bendybuses rather than conventional single deckers. Considering that it will probably be a heavily used service and also it will likely be used mainly for short trips it would probably if the infrastructure was put in place to allow for bendybuses perhaps with BRT style stops etc. it could work.

Conventional single deckers wouldn't be great especially the Streetlites as they only only have one door don't understand why they weren't ordered in dual door spec.

thomasj

According to the go-ahead PR regarding this weekends changes, the 33A, 33B and 102 will switch to single deck operation .

sharper wrote: »

Sorry I thought it was about the capacity issues that forced them to switch back to double deckers elsewhere.

Someone at the NTA really likes the single deckers for some reason. Since they recently figured out how to use twitter to go on the defensive with busconnects it would be nice to see them explain what they're thinking.

Well do remember DB use to use single deckers extensively too before the recession.

When the recession hit and passenger numbers dropped and DB needed to cut back on the number of buses in the fleet, they wisely decided to cut the single deckers as the double deckers would offer more flexibility for a now smaller fleet.

Now that the number of buses in the fleet is being expanded again to pre-recession and beyond numbers, it makes sense to bring back single deckers as not all routes need the capacity of double deckers and single deckers are cheaper to buy and cheaper to fuel.

As an aside, I'd definitely agree that the O route will need a completely different type of single decker. 2 or 3 doors like you see in mainland Europe and perhaps even bendy buses if they can fit them. Perhaps more standing space and less sitting space. The single door buses certainly wouldn't be suitable for this route.

Stephen15

bk wrote: »

Well do remember DB use to use single deckers extensively too before the recession.

When the recession hit and passenger numbers dropped and DB needed to cut back on the number of buses in the fleet, they wisely decided to cut the single deckers as the double deckers would offer more flexibility for a now smaller fleet.

Now that the number of buses in the fleet is being expanded again to pre-recession and beyond numbers, it makes sense to bring back single deckers as not all routes need the capacity of double deckers and single deckers are cheaper to buy and cheaper to fuel.

As an aside, I'd definitely agree that the O route will need a completely different type of single decker. 2 or 3 doors like you see in mainland Europe and perhaps even bendy buses if they can fit them. Perhaps more standing space and less sitting space. The single door buses certainly wouldn't be suitable for this route.

I agree with most of what you're. Single deckers are for certain routes more suitable than double decker buses however the main problem here has been the routes which the NTA have assigned them to some have been unsuitable. For example 184 is not suitable in my opinion for single decker buses as it is quite a busy route at certain times of the day. I don't ever remember this route ever being operated by single deckers in the past either.

I also think it was a bad not buying a number of single deckers which were shorter in length as the 59 has always been historically a single decker bus but as you maybe aware the buses bought were too long. Also there is talk of the 102 being operated by single deckers which I don't think is a suitable route for single unless the frequency was improved which is not being at least not at peak times.

I am of the belief that it shouldn't matter if a route is operated by double or single deckers as long as capacity on the route is adequately fulfilled. I think on certain routes they could increase frequency and start running single deckers instead of double deckers.

devnull

The vehicle allocation is being based on passenger numbers, counted on ticket machine data from when the routes were operated by DB, from what I have heard in the past.

If that is a case it should be quite hard to get it wrong, unless for some reason, there is a discrepancy between the ticket machine data and the number of passengers who are actually travelling,

Stephen15 wrote: »

I agree with most of what you're. Single deckers are for certain routes more suitable than double decker buses however the main problem here has been the routes which the NTA have assigned them to some have been unsuitable. For example 184 is not suitable in my opinion for single decker buses as it is quite a busy route at certain times of the day. I don't ever remember this route ever being operated by single deckers in the past either.

Yes, there could certainly be mistakes on which routes they are allocated too. I certainly wouldn't speak for any particular route as I don't know them all, but rather just a general comment that single deckers aren't necessarily a bad thing as long as they are allocated to the correct route.

Though NTA wouldn't be the first to put single deckers on the wrong routes either. After all it was Dublin Bus management who decided to put single deckers and even blooming imps on the 123 !!! :rolleyes:

Stephen15 wrote: »

I also think it was a bad not buying a number of single deckers which were shorter in length as the 59 has always been historically a single decker bus but as you maybe aware the buses bought were too long.

Yes I was thinking exactly the same when I read the comments about the 59 above. Shorter streetlites or similar should certainly be used on routes like that.

devnull wrote: »

The vehicle allocation is being based on passenger numbers, counted on ticket machine data from when the routes were operated by DB, from what I have heard in the past.

If that is a case it should be quite hard to get it wrong, unless for some reason, there is a discrepancy between the ticket machine data and the number of passengers who are actually travelling,

Yes, I was thinking that, there really shouldn't be any surprises. They should have detailed data from the ticket machines.