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Euthanasia

Gael23

Been following a blogger documenting his battle with terminal cancer the past few months. He lost that battle at the end of September.
More recently his family have posted a clip describing the last few days of his life and to be honest it’s fairly horrific. Things like vomiting so violently it projects up to the ceiling of his hospice room.
An animal wouldn’t be allowed to suffer like that so why should a human being?

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LirW

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

My father is currently living with dementia, that is an illness that has no upside; no positive prognosis and only downsides.

The second I get anything like that it's off to Dignitas. It should be available here though.

And the "Dutch dancer" - those using that for anti-euthanasia purposes need to read more. Holland, like Belgium - and some others I believe - allow doctor assisted suicide for not only severe mental illness but cases where a patient is suffering so much (although not YET) terminal that they are at risk of developing mental health crisis.

As with equal marriage, divorce and latterly abortion - if you don't agree with this, then don't do it. But how dare you prevent others from doing so!

My family had a few ugly cases of Dementia and Alzheimer and I know I don't wanna die this death. If I come to the realisation I depreciate because I'm dement, that's it for me, I'll blow the lights out. Nothing scares me more than having a degerative disease and maybe not realising it until it's so advanced that I need full-time care.

Deebles McBeebles

Anyone else watch the Louis Theroux documentary about this on Sunday? In some states in the US its just a matter of mixing 2 bottles of liquid and off you go to sleep. Its certainly a choice I would like to be able to make for myself.

banie01

Theres a certain irony that a particular poster can be both against Vaccines and against Euthanasia....?
Its as if not only would they prefer people to die of easily avoidable and preventable disease, but that they support the notion that a person so afflicted should suffer on to their bitter end

PlaneSpeeking

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is the familiar line “oh, some might be coerced into it” constantly trotted out as an excuse to justify maintaining a complete ban? For those who wish to end their lives because they have a terminal illness thats causing extreme discomfort, its appalling that they cannot do so.

Because those against it and who want to push their views on to others have nothing but nonsense and emotional "ooh but do that and this will happen...." rubbish.

Saw it with equal marriage - "people will be able to marry their sister/cat/television" and the 8th "there'll be abortions carried out on the due date!".

It's all pathetic hysteria and should be ignore IMO.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Isn’t it assisted dying that’s on the table rather than euthanasia? They’re different. The former is self-administered, the latter administered by somebody else.

The husband of an American assisted-dying campaigner died of a brain tumour. It was behind his eyes and when the treatments stopped working, the tumour got so large that for the last three months of his life, he couldn’t close his eyelids. Horrific. It’s in the documentary, How To Die In Oregon.

PlaneSpeeking

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

That's not the experience of a family member with an in-law in a hospice at present with cancer.

They have had two very difficult months, and have more to come.

My immense sympathies. My grandfather died of lung cancer when my dad was 11 and he has never spoken of what he went through, but my dad has always said if he got cancer he'd end things.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

kneemos wrote: »

From what I've seen doctors are eager enough with the do not resuscitate forms.

That’s a good thing. Dying is so medicalised these days. There’s always something that can be done to keep a shell of a person alive. Nobody has to fill out a DNR if they don’t want to but I’m glad the option is there for those of us who want it.

I’d recommend the book ‘Being Mortal’ by Atul Gawande which goes in depth on the subject.

PlaneSpeeking

SusieBlue wrote: »

I think what you meant there is there is no way suicide is acceptable to you.

If someone is ill and cannot endure another day of pain and suffering we should not force them to continue living a life they find miserable just to satisfy someone else's personal morals on the matter.

I'm not encouraging or condoning suicide and am all too aware of the effects it has on the family left behind, but as a human I feel nothing but compassion & sympathy towards those who could no longer struggle on under the burden of their pain.

I have seen first hand what the last few days of life looks like with a terminal illness, and there was nothing peaceful or dignified about it.
The closer family members found it extremely distressing & upsetting to see their loved one in such agony.
I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy and would certainly never wish to go through it myself.

A peaceful, dignified death should be allowed for those who want it, and their wishes on the matter should be respected.

+1

In some ways I am almost glad (though an odd word to use) that my mother passed when under anaesthetic for surgery. She wasn't well of course but wasn't suffering - and never was.

Why people thing their idelogy should interfere in the lives of others is beyond me. It's cruel.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Graces7 wrote: »

With good hospice care, they don't.

Sadly not always the case. Palliative care teams do their very best but it’s not always possible to get on top of the pain and treat the myriad other end-of-life complications, no matter what hospices say.

sightband

Gael23 wrote: »

Been following a blogger documenting his battle with terminal cancer the past few months. He lost that battle at the end of September.
More recently his family have posted a clip describing the last few days of his life and to be honest it’s fairly horrific. Things like vomiting so violently it projects up to the ceiling of his hospice room.
An animal wouldn’t be allowed to suffer like that so why should a human being?

Do you have a link to the blog?

sbsquarepants

Graces7 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Have a nice day..

Telling people sarcastically to have a nice day is a bit rude, but that's life for you, it won't keep me up at night.

Insisting they go on having shítty day after shítty day until they are lucky enough to die of natural causes, even if that takes years of misery, and all just because you think they should - that's not rude, that's disgusting.

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Anyone else watch the Louis Theroux documentary about this on Sunday? In some states in the US its just a matter of mixing 2 bottles of liquid and off you go to sleep. Its certainly a choice I would like to be able to make for myself.

Watched it - it was a great show. The auld fella, can't remember his name, was really cool. If I'm ever unfortunate enough to be in his position, I just hope I manage to hold on to a sliver of the grace and decency that he did.

PlaneSpeeking

Did anyone watch the programme with Julie Walters - I think it was A Day In Switzerland or something ?

My takeaway from that programme was she had months left of a decent quality of life but as the rules meant that she had to get to Dignitas under her own steam (although accompanying family are fine, you have to be physically able to make the journey alone) she had to go when she did.

Had this been allowed in the UK she could have spent more time with family and ended her life when she felt the suffering was too great.

Paddy Cow

Graces7 wrote: »

Not. I am nearly 80 years old and know a lot more on this than you do; have seen friends go down that road.

Graces7 wrote: »

There wouldn't be; a personal acquaintance that was not made headline news thankfully. Amazing that any arguments you make are based on this technique..discredit and accuse! VERY .... youthful

over and out from here thank you.

Your age does not make you any wiser than other posters on here. Trying to belittle someone else's opinion because they are younger than you actually comes across as immature. Plenty of people on this thread have unfortunately had the experience of watching loved ones fade and die. Whether that happens at 20 or 80 is irrelevant. The pains and loss felt is equally valid. This is a sensitive topic for many people and using your age to make snide comments just means I don't take what you post seriously.

PlaneSpeeking

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Your age does not make you any wiser than other posters on here. Trying to belittle someone else's opinion because they are younger than you actually comes across as immature. Plenty of people on this thread have unfortunately had the experience of watching loved ones fade and die. Whether that happens at 20 or 80 is irrelevant. The pains and loss felt is equally valid. This is a sensitive topic for many people and using your age to make snide comments just means I don't take what you post seriously.

My dad is 81 and in his occasional lucid moments often remarks "why does my age make me clever ?" when someone remarks about age and wisdom.

I was 22 when my mother passed away, and it near killed me. I'm a kick in the arse off 50 now and it will equally kill me when my dad goes.

I could lose my best friend of - currently - 20 years when I'm 70. It will similarly rip my heart out.

It makes me sick when people slyly dismiss others' views based on their age.

[Deleted User]

I do think it should be legalised even with as many restrictions as people deem necessary eg must have been diagnosed with whatever illness for which there is no cure
It is selfish to force someone else to suffer so you won't be sad a few months earlier than you would have been or even god forbid, nearly relieved

L.Jenkins

Personally, I'd hate to go sooner than expected. However, if I were in the later stages of stage 4 Cancers or other ailments such as MS, I'd rather die with dignity. The alternative would be immense suffering and having to endure the indignity as an adult of potentially being spoon fed and cleaned up after like an infant or being incapable of breathing or wiping my own arse on my own, including the potential for extreme pain and suffering.

Then you'd have your family sitting by, unable to help, watching and waiting for you to die, not just so they can mourn, but you could finally see you have that long awaited final brief moment of relief as you take your last breath.

For me, it would be as much about dying with dignity, as ensuring my family don't have to endure the pain of watching me suffer.

Deebles McBeebles

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Watched it - it was a great show. The auld fella, can't remember his name, was really cool. If I'm ever unfortunate enough to be in his position, I just hope I manage to hold on to a sliver of the grace and decency that he did.

He was amazing, laughing and joking about it and with the family too. From all my life experience so far I would definitely follow his lead in instances of cancer or dementia. Legal or not.

sullivlo

My aunt died of cancer almost 4 years ago. Time flies. The pain of losing her never really goes away.

She suffered. She absolutely suffered. Her palliative care team were amazing, and up until she died they visited every 4 hours to administer morphine etc.

She didn’t want to die in a hospice so we cared for her. There was absolutely no dignity. We had to carry her to the toilet. She projectile vomited every few minutes. She asked to be put out of her misery. She wasn’t in pain but she was suffering.

Selfishly, I still suffer because of her last few days. I will never get over some of what I saw, did, witnessed... I treasure the time she was lucid - about 3 weeks before she died - because she was still herself. But I have nightmares and panic attacks over what she went through and her pleas of ending it.

How dare anyone deny a dying person their right to dignity.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I’m so sorry, sullivlo. That sounds traumatic. Have you considered getting some counselling?

PlaneSpeeking

sullivlo wrote: »

My aunt died of cancer almost 4 years ago. Time flies. The pain of losing her never really goes away.

She suffered. She absolutely suffered. Her palliative care team were amazing, and up until she died they visited every 4 hours to administer morphine etc.

She didn’t want to die in a hospice so we cared for her. There was absolutely no dignity. We had to carry her to the toilet. She projectile vomited every few minutes. She asked to be put out of her misery. She wasn’t in pain but she was suffering.

Selfishly, I still suffer because of her last few days. I will never get over some of what I saw, did, witnessed... I treasure the time she was lucid - about 3 weeks before she died - because she was still herself. But I have nightmares and panic attacks over what she went through and her pleas of ending it.

How dare anyone deny a dying person their right to dignity.

The thought that my dad witnessed something like that as a kid, chilling.

I could not agree with your last sentence more strongly. Know you have my heartfelt sympathies for your loss.

ancapailldorcha

Graces7, are you just blindly in opposition of anything that reduces human suffering?

Neyite

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Graces7, are you just blindly in opposition of anything that reduces human suffering?

I think she's of the offer-it-up school of thought.

joe40

OSI wrote: »

It takes a lot for me to say this, but I've seen you spout too much nonsense not to say it at this stage. You come across as a truly horrible human being devoid of compassion.

I seldom agree with anything that poster says but to describe her as "truly horrible person devoid of compassion" is unfair, to say the least.

ancapailldorcha

Neyite wrote: »

I think she's of the offer-it-up school of thought.

Would you mind explaining this?

Paddy Cow

joe40 wrote: »

I seldom agree with anything that poster says but to describe her as "truly horrible person devoid of compassion" is unfair, to say the least.

Would it be fair to say the holier-than-thou, poor-little-old-me Mother Theresa act is starting to grate on everyone's last nerve and if it continues I can see a lot of people getting banned for taking the bait?

jimgoose

joe40 wrote: »

I seldom agree with anything that poster says but to describe her as "truly horrible person devoid of compassion" is unfair, to say the least.

I think that's a bit much. Many of her ilk and vintage would agree with her, the main reason being this is Ireland, and if euthanasia/assisted suicide were legal here it would be used, many times, to murder people for their property. We're just like that. And of course Because Old Catholic Biddies Who Know All. :pac:

Having said that much, I think it should be allowed within a strict legal and medical framework.

looksee

I don't think Grace's personality is particularly relevant to this thread, while I don't agree with her opinions at all, without them the conversation would not have continued investigating the whole area of assisted death or euthanasia.

I am not far off G's age (as are many on Boards) and I also live mostly alone (with cats) in a less than satisfactory environment (entirely my choice/fault

), and am well aware of the aches and pains, limitations and illnesses that beset old age. Like her though, these all all incidental and not likely to create an immediate wish for the release offered by voluntary death. I reckon I have another maybe 20 years or so, still got loads to do.

If, however, the time comes when I am subject to a life of constant and unbearable pain, or I lose my mental faculties, I do sincerely hope that I will have the option of opting out when I am ready, or that someone takes pity and does it for me. If G wishes to suffer hopelessly, then that is for her to decide, but I would not want her, Mother Teresa style, deciding what is best for me.

Paddy Cow

jimgoose wrote: »

I think that's a bit much. Many of her ilk and vintage would agree with her, the main reason being this is Ireland, and if euthanasia/assisted suicide were legal here it would be used, many times, to murder people for their property. We're just like that. Having said that much, I think it should be allowed within a strict legal and medical framework.

No it wouldn't. You can't just go to your doctor and say your elderly parent is sick and wishes to die at home and the doctor gives you some medicine to kill them. It's strictly controlled. Even getting palliative painkillers isn't easy. They don't just hand out this stuff willy nilly.

jimgoose

Paddy Cow wrote: »

No it wouldn't. You can't just go to your doctor and say your elderly parent is sick and wishes to die at home and the doctor gives you some medicine to kill them. It's strictly controlled. Even getting palliative painkillers isn't easy. They don't just hand out this stuff willy nilly.

Doctors? I wouldn't trust a doctor in this country as far as I'd throw the half-mad, money-grubbing fucker! :pac::pac::pac:

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

jimgoose wrote: »

I think that's a bit much. Many of her ilk and vintage would agree with her, the main reason being this is Ireland, and if euthanasia/assisted suicide were legal here it would be used, many times, to murder people for their property. We're just like that. And of course Because Old Catholic Biddies Who Know All. :pac:

Having said that much, I think it should be allowed within a strict legal and medical framework.

Well, euthanasia and assisted dying are different. I think assisted dying is what’s on the table. It gives the individual much more power than euthanasia. The individual would be interviewed alone by doctors and hopefully by psychiatrists and psychologists who would hopefully pick up on any reticence on the part of the individual. That’s how it’s done elsewhere.

With assisted dying, the dose MUST be self-adminstered. That’s the important part. Nobody else is allowed to give it to the person. This is a really important distinction from euthanasia.