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Child Item

who do women dress for?

Roger Hassenforder

This beauty was in the letters section of D'Paper today (dont judge me, long day, very bored)

"It may come as some surprise, but women actually dont always dress to impress men, sorry guys, its not all about you"
Eve, Dublin 8

Seeing as most men i know would describe their wife/girlfriend/partner etc. as having worn "something kinda black", or "a red dress thing", and if pushed wouldn't really care what she wore as long as she was happy and looked nice. I'm at a loss as to this presumption.

Only recently i discovered a skirt is actually different from a dress.

I always assumed women "dress" for themselves, make themselves look nice, for themselves.
I certainly never assumed it was for a man.
(If in the context of the Thong/rape thread , thats over there>>)

Have i got this arsëwisë?

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Zorya

I have always had an odd sense of style, even as a kid, it would have been great to have been around when dresses were long and flowing and heavily embroidered, where shawls, draped scarves and gorgeous hooded capes were the thing, I would have loved that. I love expensive fabrics, finely made clothes and beautiful things but seen as I haven't ever had a penny to my name, I pay homage to a very watered down, second hand store version of flowing and yet comfortable and practical enough to work in the garden. So, I guess I dress for no one except myself. Himself likes it, says why would you have to be like anyone else, and since he is the one who sees me most, that's cool.

Today I sat in my car on the main street of local town waiting for the bank to open after lunch and therefore saw a stream of school girls going past. Madre de Dios, beautiful girls but the backsides of their uniform trousers must have to be removed with paint strimmer every night. Must be some special kind of material that can bond so tightly to flesh. The poor fellas must be driven insane.

Mrsmum

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If I were to say that I, as a lad in his late twenties, pretty much only thinks about "will this make me more likely to get hit on when I go out clubbing on Saturday" when I'm working out or deciding what outfit to wear before the aforementioned sesh, would this come as a big surprise?

Again, I know that women don't think this way, but in my view it's not surprising that some lads assume that their approach to these things is mirrored in the opposite sex. Generally, men and women behave different in these instances, but projecting one's own worldview and assuming it's a universal thing is a fairly standard human trait. I don't see it as malicious or inherently offensive, it's just the classic "I see a candlestick, there's no way anyone could see it as two faces" issue of human bias.

Well I guess both sexes are hoping to attract the opposite sex on a typical Saturday night out. (Of course I mean single people here. Those days are behind me. ) The most colourful flower attracts the bees and butterflies type of thing. So even though we say we are not dressing for the opposite sex, consciously or unconsciously I suppose we might be more than we think we are on such a night out. Personally I think looking fantastic on a night out gives one a feeling of power and confidence.

hatrickpatrick

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s specific to one small demographic and one particular scene. How do you explain well dressed old folk?

Some people don’t care, others just want to look good.

Absolutely, but I think when the debate centres around women dressing up sexy on the "going out" scene and whether this is for lads or for themselves, that's exactly the demographic this conversation tends to be aimed at and relevant to.

One eyed Jack

Shelli2 wrote: »

Who do men dress for?

Do all women have this hive mind that I'm somehow being left out of? How do I apply to be part of the collective? What will happen to me if I don't fall into line?

Men tend to dress for other people’s benefit too. Nobody wants to see me walking around bollock naked for example (no, really, they don’t! :pac:), so I wear clothes to cover my body and spare other people the visuals. I dress as well as I can, to look as good as I can, in the hope that other people perceive me to be a conscientious person who takes pride in their appearance.

I have trouble instilling these values in my son however who is a teenager and doesn’t yet understand the value in having consideration for other people. I understand though at the same time that he is a teenager and doesn’t yet understand the importance of taking pride in his appearance.

Franz Von Peppercorn

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I would say that when it comes to appearance in general, most of us only put thought into it from the angle of "will this make me more attractive / likely to get hit on". Of course there are always exceptions, but certainly among young lads I know, getting big in the gym or wearing colourful shirts etc on nights out is about getting more attention from the attracted-to gender in order to increase both confidence and the chances of getting a shift. Obviously there are fashionista lads and there are lads who dress for the sake of impressing business folk and so on, but if most of us are honest, it's about wanting to get more sexual attention. Not necessarily more sex, just sexual attention.

That’s specific to one small demographic and one particular scene. How do you explain well dressed old folk?

Some people don’t care, others just want to look good.

hatrickpatrick

Shelli2 wrote: »

Who do men dress for?

I would say that when it comes to appearance in general, most of us only put thought into it from the angle of "will this make me more attractive / likely to get hit on". Of course there are always exceptions, but certainly among young lads I know, getting big in the gym or wearing colourful shirts etc on nights out is about getting more attention from the attracted-to gender in order to increase both confidence and the chances of getting a shift. Obviously there are fashionista lads and there are lads who dress for the sake of impressing business folk and so on, but if most of us are honest, it's about wanting to get more sexual attention. Not necessarily more sex, just sexual attention.

Assetbacked

Palmach wrote: »

Nonsense. Most men are attracted to well dressed women. It is an Irish thing for women to not bother. This has been noted by many non-Irish women I know. If you don't bother to dress up you give off vibes that you don't care. My wife who is non-Irish nearly always wears a skirt because I think she looks good in them.

If by well-dressed, you mean "sexy" then you are correct about what most men are attracted to. If a girl doesn't want to feel pressure to dress up for a guy then quite simply if she doesn't look sexy, most guys won't care to look at her and she can achieve what she wanted.

I would agree that your opinion as to what she looks good in is fine, but it is unlikely to be "pressure" from you to wear this. Therefore, the key point is that this talk of men creating a "pressure" on women to dress a certain way is a myth; any "pressure" really does come from other women.

Shelli2

Who do men dress for?

Do all women have this hive mind that I'm somehow being left out of? How do I apply to be part of the collective? What will happen to me if I don't fall into line?

Irish Guitarist

Even men who care how women dress don't have a clue what they're talking about when it comes to clothes.

"I love a woman in heels". They're not heels, they're high heels. All womens shoes have a heel. If they didn't they'd be walking around with no skin on their feet.

Roger Hassenforder

Alun wrote: »

Really?

It wasnt my finest hour

Pyr0

I've asked this to a number of female friends and every one of them said that they dress for other women, not men.

hatrickpatrick

Mrsmum wrote: »

I do dress with other women in mind as well as what I like myself. I notice how well other women are dressed so assume they are doing the same about me. (However this has no bearing on the people I like. Some people dress awfully but are fabulous and great to be around.) The men I know don't give a hoot so long as you look reasonably ok in their company. But if I was going on a special date type of thing I would like to know I was a total knockout.

If I were to say that I, as a lad in his late twenties, pretty much only thinks about "will this make me more likely to get hit on when I go out clubbing on Saturday" when I'm working out or deciding what outfit to wear before the aforementioned sesh, would this come as a big surprise?

Again, I know that women don't think this way, but in my view it's not surprising that some lads assume that their approach to these things is mirrored in the opposite sex. Generally, men and women behave different in these instances, but projecting one's own worldview and assuming it's a universal thing is a fairly standard human trait. I don't see it as malicious or inherently offensive, it's just the classic "I see a candlestick, there's no way anyone could see it as two faces" issue of human bias.

Palmach

Assetbacked wrote: »

Most men couldn't care less what a woman is wearing.

Nonsense. Most men are attracted to well dressed women. It is an Irish thing for women to not bother. This has been noted by many non-Irish women I know. If you don't bother to dress up you give off vibes that you don't care. My wife who is non-Irish nearly always wears a skirt because I think she looks good in them.

Day Lewin

I've often heard women say this: that they dress to impress other women. Or for fear of being criticised by other women (very common)

I'd say that those who dress "for men" would be the minority -- and some of the other women would criticise them for that, too.

One eyed Jack

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Subconsciously, everything we do is to attract the opposite sex to find a suitable partner to breed or to protect our young.

Really Richard?

How does that theory pan out for people who are sexually attracted to people of the same sex as themselves?

Assetbacked

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Subconsciously, everything we do is to attract the opposite sex to find a suitable partner to breed or to protect our young.

Thanks Sigmund Freud.

Richard Hillman

Subconsciously, everything we do is to attract the opposite sex to find a suitable partner to breed or to protect our young.

Mrsmum

I do dress with other women in mind as well as what I like myself. I notice how well other women are dressed so assume they are doing the same about me. (However this has no bearing on the people I like. Some people dress awfully but are fabulous and great to be around.) The men I know don't give a hoot so long as you look reasonably ok in their company. But if I was going on a special date type of thing I would like to know I was a total knockout.

Assetbacked

It is a myth that it is men's fault for women feeling pressure to dress as they do. Most men couldn't care less what a woman is wearing. In reality, men would just give a look if a girl was showing a lot of skin or looked particularly sexy but only because we are easily distracted with these things.

If this is deemed to be men influencing what women wear than clearly the issue is the women who like to attract the gaze of men versus those women which hate that women will dress just to get looks from guys.

If individual guys had a preference for women to dress a certain way then that's their preference - some women like their guys to dress a certain way. But the vast majority don't care. Eve in Dublin 8 needs to get over herself.

hatrickpatrick

As I posted in the other thread, I think the bashing of some young guys for misunderstanding this is a little unfair, because most young lads don't give a bollocks about their appearance in any context other than trying to be attractive. It's understandable that they assume this cuts both ways, even if that's a misunderstanding, and isn't evidence of being arrogant or obnoxious or anything like that. Certainly as a non sports player and as someone who knows very little about fashion, my approach to looking good is pretty much entirely about sex appeal. I don't really care what other lads or family members think of me like

It's one of those unfortunate instances where a simple and understandable mismatch has been amped up into an all out vitriolic culture war in the age of the internet.

goose2005

God's eyes

Roger Hassenforder

corner of hells wrote: »

I've read your post twice and still don't know what it's about.

Ah heor, should i open a remedial thread!
Pretty self explanatory i thought

Trigger Happy

Probably different answers for different people.
Comfort, warmth, culture, social context, environment etc etc.
Maybe a few dress to impress men sometimes. On a date for eg. Maybe not.

One eyed Jack

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I always assumed women "dress" for themselves, make themselves look nice, for themselves.
I certainly never assumed it was for a man.
(If in the context of the Thong/rape thread , thats over there>>)

Have i got this arsëwisë?

Everyone who can dress themselves, dresses for themselves. For some people it matters to them how they are perceived by other people, for other people it doesn’t matter to them how they are perceived by other people.

I don’t think there’s any basis for assuming the above is limited to one sex or the other.

[Deleted User]

Draven Massive Tinfoil wrote: »

I can't relate to the "Women dress for other women" thing - do we? I also can't believe women who say they dress up for themselves exclusively. Of course the environment (including the people) has an influence on what they wear. This is why we don't wear our comfy leggings and hoodie on a night out.

Women do dress in a way to make ourselves feel good but part of this is other people thinking we look good. For me, those other people are men - and i don't see why this is something women feel they have to hide. Couldn't give a toss what women think though. Maybe women who are really into current fashion do.

I think it is more the linking of feeling good with being looked at or admired, in this case, a man admiring them, instead of linking feeling good with the idea that are grand as they are without external admiration or validation of what they are wearing from a man.

padd b1975

Comfort and warmth?

Maybe some day...

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

A woman dresses up for herself 9/10 times. The one time she dresses up for her man is when they're going on a date. There is nothing wrong with this, Eve. Get over yourself and stop being a <beep> by implying men explicitly expect women to dress up for them all the time.

That being said, I don't mind it when women do dress up for men. It's often a visual treat :pac:

Gimme A Pound

I can't relate to the "Women dress for other women" thing - do we? I also can't believe women who say they dress up for themselves exclusively. Of course the environment (including the people) has an influence on what they wear. This is why we don't wear our comfy leggings and hoodie on a night out.

Women do dress in a way to make ourselves feel good but part of this is other people thinking we look good. For me, those other people are men - and i don't see why this is something women feel they have to hide. Couldn't give a toss what women think though. Maybe women who are really into current fashion do.

[Deleted User]

Only sexy undies are worn for someone else to view and take off, the rest is about comfort unless its an occasion. I often envy men going to a wedding new shirt a nice tie and they are grand no more thinking about it.

jam_mac_jam

To not be cold or not arrested for being naked?

As if all women are the same. Some for male attention some for other women, some couldn't give two ****s and just have to wear them outside.