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Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Emme

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

Eveey morning a good proportion of the seats are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders. Sometimes people like myself (paying commuters) have to stand because of this. From Athy on more people have to stand. Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

I understand some of them have to go to hospital appointments which is fair enough. But the gaggle of 8 mature women talking loudly about their shopping trip could have got a later train. They will probably get a peak time train home in the evening as will many of the other FTP holders. They always seem to get to the train first in the evenings while people who rush to the train from work often have to stand.

When you are tired and burnt out you can get angry and resentful. Angry and resentful of getting nothing for your taxes and paying a huge chunk of your salary to commute (often standing each way) while those who pay nothing get the seats.

I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

Meanwhile commuters are getting screwed in every way but are too exhausted to do anything.

The FTP should be for off peak travel only. If the government wants to give it to pensioners full time it should be means tested. If some of them can afford to shop in BTs they can surely afford the price of a train ticket.

Many will disagree with me. But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

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Emme

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Just to point out something here, but if you are prone to blackouts why are you driving a car, have you told the NDLS this? You did mention you pay for parking.

I don't get blackouts every day. I get them if I am crammed into a black hole of Calcutta style crush - I am 5'2" so arguably overcrowding would affect me more than somebody of 5'10". My doctor has declared me fit to drive and I check in with him regularly

Emme

Graces7 wrote: »

Truly sorry; I have M.E too and autoimmune issues and I know what a struggle life is. You are actually disabled and should make that known. Also I sincerely hope you are wearing a mask in these crowded places?
That would also help folk take better care of you eg give a seat.

I don't consider myself disabled. However the mask is a good idea for everyone because of all the bugs spread by overcrowding. Getting coughed all over is not a pleasant experience.

Graces7

troyzer wrote: »

Yes, it does.

The free travel pass is a good idea but it shouldn't come at the expense of people who are paying both for themselves and the travel pass.

The OP is right. As a 25 year old it just depresses me how older people managed to shaft my generation with national debt, an unaffordable housing market and lower salaries whilst simultaneously enjoying benefits at our expense that we'll never have like state pensions and free travel passes.

That's how society works and that's fine, hopefully things will get better slowly for us. But in the meantime, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if you're going to get free travel passes then you shouldn't be allowed to use them at peak times.

You don't need to be in Dublin nine in the morning, people who work do. Unless you have a medical appointment of course, in which case it should be free.

By the way, I think the OP is probably taking too many liberties by assuming they're FTPHs. But we all know that public transport capacity is bursting at the seams so even if you can reduce the numbers by 5-10% it would help.

Ah I I get you now... an angry youngster.. And no using a pass is not ABUsing a pass. freely available all the day long ( and no I do not ave a pass or any public transport ) and at any time.

MrMusician18

Graces7 wrote: »

No it doesn't.

I'm afraid it does Grace. Reducing the cost of any service where demand is controlled by price always leads to an increase in use when prices fall. Another example of this is free GP care for under sixes has led to a 30% increase in under sixes attending the GP. If free services are not ever abused there should only have been a marginal increase in visits.

Anecdotally I know of plenty of OAPs that use their FTP to go on excursions and day trips that they would not have taken if they were paying €30 for the day return

Plumbthedepths

Emme wrote:

I don't get blackouts every day. I get them if I am crammed into a black hole of Calcutta style crush - I am 5'2" so arguably overcrowding would affect me more than somebody of 5'10". My doctor has declared me fit to drive and I check in with him regularly

If you are prone to blackouts , you should not be behind the wheel. There is no Indian style crush on Irish trains. Your blackouts are most likely brought on by stress which can also be triggered in a car. I think your driving is incredibly irresponsible tbh.
Have you told your doctor you are suffering blackouts occasionally? Do you not think your safety and that of other road users is important?

facehugger99

Emme wrote: »

Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

On Irish Rail?

Nah, they sit on scratchy upholstery surrounded by other people's farts.

Graces7

Emme wrote: »

I don't consider myself disabled. However the mask is a good idea for everyone because of all the bugs spread by overcrowding. Getting coughed all over is not a pleasant experience.

M.e is a disabling illness... period. Stressful holding down a job and you are doing well.

But nothing anyone says here is going to please you?

average_runner

I have no problem with the genuine people having the passes and old folks as they have given their service(well most have).

The problem is , there is alot out there who have the passes and shouldn't.

The working folk are fell up in this country paying top tax and getting nothing in return.

Emme

blue note wrote: »

Op - why don't you live closer to work? It wouldn't by any chance be a choice you made to live far away for the benefits of a bigger house, cheaper cost of living, etc? As opposed to buffering forced into it.

Like thousands of others I was forced to live a long distance from work because of housing costs. In happier times I lived 20 minutes from work and cycled but years of commuting has destroyed my health and general well-being.

Graces7

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you are prone to blackouts , you should not be behind the wheel. There is no Indian style crush on Irish trains. Your blackouts are most likely brought on by stress which can also be triggered in a car. I think your driving is incredibly irresponsible tbh.
Have you told your doctor you are suffering blackouts occasionally? Do you not think your safety and that of other road users is important?

Agree totally. Itis probably a condition linked with M.E called POTS a postural thing. Have a look at this, please OP. It can e treated. Means when you have to stand a while you literally black out; see your dr? There is a web resource called "phoenix rising" with a good section on this.
pm if you need.

troyzer

Graces7 wrote: »

Ah I I get you now... an angry youngster.. And no using a pass is not ABUsing a pass. freely available all the day long ( and no I do not ave a pass or any public transport ) and at any time.

Yeah, wouldn't want to be an uppity youngster. How dare I have a go at older people with their €500k houses they bought for €40k whilst forcing us to pay €1.5k a month for a shed an hour and a half away from work which pays us less than it pays you simply for being younger.

And while you're retired and enjoying your state pension and free travel pass, it's left to us to pay the €200bn national debt you racked up.

Cheers for that.

Show some humility, older people in Ireland are absolutely blessed with all of the advantages they have over younger people. More money, more public services, more freebies and they struggled far less with the basics than we are now. That's just a fact.

The pass is currently availably for free all day long, but it shouldn't be. That's the whole point.

facehugger99

Dalomanakora wrote: »

So my quite disabled relative who can't even walk without assistance should only go out off-peak?

Yes.

gwalk

I'm going to contact every free travel pass holder i know and suggest that they get that train every morning so there is even less of a chance of you getting a seat

[Deleted User]

The Uk system limits free travel to your local area only. I agree with the OP that it should be limited to off peak only.

iamwhoiam

Emme wrote: »

I appreciate that some worked two jobs to pay a mortgage. However this is not an option now because of (1) longer working hours and (2) longer commutes.

If you have to keep reminding your children of the sacrifices you made then it is not a sacrifice but a guilt trip.

If someone is disabled or incapacitated a seat should be give up for them. But luckily being a certain age does not guarantee this.

I thought them manners and respect .They dont need to be guilt tripped they are fully functioning adults who know their manners .

facehugger99

Even the phrase 'Free Travel' is erroneous.

Someone always has to pick up the tab. As per usual it's the people who pick up the tab for everything else like free water, free education and forever-homes.

RobbingBandit

I am autistic up until about 6 months ago to look at me using my free travel you wouldn't think there was anything much up as most people did and still do even now when I am wearing a giant boot on my left foot due to medical complications about 90% of the time I struggle to get seats on public transport going to and from appointments or going about my daily activities I have no job and limited opportunities or options which will now be even more limited due to my ever growing issues with my leg and foot perhaps someone suffering from issues such as mine were the ones profiled today.

Count yourself lucky you have the means and abilities to provide for yourself instead of looking down on those less fortunate than you who need a little help.

iamwhoiam

facehugger99 wrote: »

Even the phrase 'Free Travel' is erroneous.

Someone always has to pick up the tab. As per usual it's the people who pick up the tab for everything else like free water, free education and forever-homes.

Yep , same as those who now have free travel picked up the tabs for those who needed assistants back when they worked .And so it goes .

lawred2

Overcrowding on our sub standard public transport systems is not the fault of a few people with free travel passes.

That failure lies largely at the feet of CIE and successive Irish governments. But also at our feet - we get what we elect - while we keep electing local issue short termist seat minding shoite bags in every constituency this is what we will get.

Emme

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you are prone to blackouts , you should not be behind the wheel. There is no Indian style crush on Irish trains. Your blackouts are most likely brought on by stress which can also be triggered in a car. I think your driving is incredibly irresponsible tbh.
Have you told your doctor you are suffering blackouts occasionally? Do you not think your safety and that of other road users is important?

As I said I check in regularly with my doctor and that includes after blackouts. I trust his experience and qualifications.

I agree with the safety of other road users but nobody cares about safety of rail users on overcrowded trains. You can only carry so many people in a car but you can cram as many people as you like into a train. I have never had a blackout in a car.

Have you ever felt suffocated in a crush coming out of a match or concert? That's often what rail transport is like. Many have blackouts in overcrowded hot conditions.

Emme

lawred2 wrote: »

Overcrowding on our sub standard public transport systems is not the fault of a few people with free travel passes.

That failure lies largely at the feet of CIE and successive Irish governments. But also at our feet - we get what we elect - while we keep electing local issue short termist seat minding shoite bags in every constituency this is what we will get.

Another point I have is that workers are too exhausted to vote or protest. Pensioners have the time and in many cases energy to do so. I think charging able bodied FTP holders to travel on peak trains would reduce their use of it and free up capacity.

lawred2

Emme wrote: »

Another point I have is that workers are too exhausted to vote or protest. Pensioners have the time and in many cases energy to do so. I think charging able bodied FTP holders to travel on peak trains would reduce their use of it and free up capacity.

that is a monumental kop out

too tired to vote?

nah - that doesn't wash

iamwhoiam

Emme wrote: »

Another point I have is that workers are too exhausted to vote or protest. Pensioners have the time and in many cases energy to do so. I think charging able bodied FTP holders to travel on peak trains would reduce their use of it and free up capacity.

Workers are too exhausted to vote !!!!! Its so exhausting to put an X in a box !! I worked night duty and got up at 1pm to get three small kids from school, feed them , homework , dinner , clothes washed etc . Then back in for another nights work .I still managed to vote !!

troyzer

Emme wrote: »

Another point I have is that workers are too exhausted to vote or protest. Pensioners have the time and in many cases energy to do so. I think charging able bodied FTP holders to travel on peak trains would reduce their use of it and free up capacity.

Are you sure your ME is in remission if you're too tired to vote?

Emme

Graces7 wrote: »

Agree totally. Itis probably a condition linked with M.E called POTS a postural thing. Have a look at this, please OP. It can e treated. Means when you have to stand a while you literally black out; see your dr? There is a web resource called "phoenix rising" with a good section on this.
pm if you need.

I trust my doctor for advice and I attend a specialist. In their opinions I do not have POTS and am fit to drive. ME covers a range of conditions and it is not permanent. I was out of work for most of a year but made sufficient recovery to drive and work.

Too many people in this country are willing to sit back and give up earning a living - the system enables it.

Emme

troyzer wrote: »

Are you sure your ME is in remission if you're too tired to vote?

Please don't be facetious.

blanch152

In other countries, where free travel arrangements apply, there is a small charge for off-peak use and for long distances.

It is a reasonable and fair way of managing demand.

Ireland is different - there is an entitlement culture that claims everything has to be completely free.

RobbingBandit

Ireland has a begrudger culture more like

iamwhoiam

blanch152 wrote: »

In other countries, where free travel arrangements apply, there is a small charge for off-peak use and for long distances.

It is a reasonable and fair way of managing demand.

Ireland is different - there is an entitlement culture that claims everything has to be completely free.

I have free travel and so does my husband .I dont think it that simple really as many pensioners use it at peak times for a reason ,they might have hospital appointments etc to get to .I know so many who will avoid peak times simply because its too full and wait till 10am or so to travel .I really doubt the transport is full of people free travel at peak times as they would prefer to avoid the crowds

Emme

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I am autistic up until about 6 months ago to look at me using my free travel you wouldn't think there was anything much up as most people did and still do even now when I am wearing a giant boot on my left foot due to medical complications about 90% of the time I struggle to get seats on public transport going to and from appointments or going about my daily activities I have no job and limited opportunities or options which will now be even more limited due to my ever growing issues with my leg and foot perhaps someone suffering from issues such as mine were the ones profiled today.

Count yourself lucky you have the means and abilities to provide for yourself instead of looking down on those less fortunate than you who need a little help.

I stated earlier that the incapacitated and disabled are not who I am discussing. I am referring to people who are healthy, wealthy and fit. Fair play to them but someone has to pay for their free travel. It is likely that the someone(s) will not have the same privileges themselves when the time comes.