aloyisious wrote: » Saturday's Indo comment column by Eilish O'Regan [page 12] has the GP's being paid €450 fee for an abortion but the training of the GP's in respect of the abortions hass apparently yet to be done with the start-update of the bill approaching fast.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » Well we're not talking about draining the Shannon here, in most cases all the 'service' will involve is a GP dispensing pills to a female patient. Once the legislation is passed there shouldn't be major logistical difficulties. And on cue, Peter Boylan "says he's confident that abortion services will be available in Ireland by the beginning of next year."https://www.newstalk.com/Peter-Boylan-pretty-confident-abortion-services-will-be-available-by-beginning-of-2019
aloyisious wrote: » I think there is a strong chance that other matters of political import [incl basic patient medical care] will be higher on the political screen than the issue of abortion provision and unless the pressure is kept up on the Govt to prevent side-lining of the issue it may well end up on a trolley in a side-corridor.
aloyisious wrote: » I regret to say that i believe there are elected members within both those parties who. at the drop of a hat, would renounce their apparent total togetherness with abortion rights for women and the majority public vote and say "I was always a believer in the Pro-life campaign" and those persons are toeing the party line as it's to their political advantage. .
Loafing Oaf wrote: » But there won't be anyone in FG opposing the legislation and at most one or two in FF. Virtually anyone in the main parties with a major issue with the legislation is already outside the party.
aloyisious wrote: » I'm thinking of quibbling over the passage of the legislation through the Oireachtas with some elected persons revealing their actual hands as being different from that publicly shown at time of election. I reckon despite the people YES vote being so definite, some of the elected will not cede to that vote. Some of the elected representatives are what I'd describe as 5th columnist in nature while running for election within parties.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » That is not a substantiation of your claim. Either substantiate it or withdraw it. that is the forum rule.
oldrnwisr wrote: » Actually it doesn't tell us that at all. You shouldn't let one or two high profile casualties like Lucinda Creighton or Fidelma Healy-Eames blind you to the reality of the full dataset.
If there's any common thread in the winners and losers among those pro-life candidates it is that those who lost did so because they abandoned the political identity which got them elected in the first place.
gctest50 wrote: » Well, some got so confused, they didn't know what they were, some weren't even there
end of the road wrote: » were you there to witness this to know that is the case?
aloyisious wrote: » ......... Ciara has a fixation on the part that freedom of conscience was being denied to doctors, nurses and even porters when it came to the operation of the legislation.
Loafing Oaf wrote: » But how could they do that in a meaningful way? Once they say they accept the decision of the people in the referendum, that's it, case closed. Once the legislation is passed, I don't see how abortion remains any more of a live issue than divorce, same-sex marriage etc. and with probably a couple of years to go before the next election, the whole thing will feel like ancient history by then. It's only two and a half years since the SSM referendum, but how long ago does that feel?
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Cora Sherlock is a complete fruit loop.
aloyisious wrote: » There's a chance that candidates re-election chances would be derailed if they were asked about their position on abortion again and were seen to be dissembling or wall-sitting on it.
Dick Swiveller wrote: » If you think about it, there really wasn't much demand coming from the wider population for abortion legislation in the years leading up to the referendum. Sure there were groups campaigning for it, and a few politicians also, but it wasn't a huge issue during the last election. That's why I think it's unwise to think the comprehensive Yes vote will translate in to more votes for politicians that campaigned for the 8th and less votes for those who didn't. People are ultimately concerned with number one - themselves and their families. The middle class will continue to vote for FF and FG politicians - regardless of an individual politicians view on the abortion question. For example, can you imagine the Healy Raes losing many votes in Kerry because of their pro-life stance? Not a chance. That's what I think, anyway. We'll see if I'm right the next time an election comes 'round.
alaimacerc wrote: » It's not the supposed "complexity" of your hand-wavy proposition I was caveating. It's in what direction the supposed bias lies in.
Dick Swiveller wrote: » All right, I'll explain it in simple terms for you: Twitter and boards.ie are not necessarily representative of the views of the wider public in Ireland.
smacl wrote: » Anybodies guess, and the family certainly has the form. I'm going out for a few pints with a friend from Kerry this evening and will see what he reckons. My gut feeling is that as ever more people from rural areas work abroad or in Dublin, the traditional parish pump politics will get superseded by larger national and European concerns.
Dick Swiveller wrote: » Well, we'll see. If I could, I would bet you 20 euro that they will romp home and get elected comfortably with a similar vote share as last time. It will be interesting to see what happens, though.
alaimacerc wrote: » Depends what you think your precise point was (if "precise" is remotely the word).
oldrnwisr wrote: » However, when you ask about the future of staunch political conservatism, we have to ask, which kind of conservatism. After all, fiscal conservatism may change in a manner completely unrelated to and uninfluenced by social conservatism.
Dick Swiveller wrote: » You're proving my point, I think.
smacl wrote: » Funny enough, I can. Not specifically through the pro-life vote so much as the Healy Raes coming across a bit thick and the savvy people of the Kingdom not wanting to be tarred with that brush. Danny with the ceap on his head I'd imagine would struggle with a younger audience that might not feel represented by that image of a Kerryman in the Dail. I don't know how well legacy family politics will fare in this country going forward, been a some time now since Jackie was bringing the Dart to Dingle
Dick Swiveller wrote: » For example, can you imagine the Healy Raes losing many votes in Kerry because of their pro-life stance? Not a chance.
smacl wrote: » Fair enough, but I didn't make reference to a single social justice issue, I was referring to a broader change in acceptable social norms among the majority of the population. I'd agree with Dick swiveller that greed (and fear) will likely trump taking the moral high ground at election time but politicians can do themselves considerable damage in the interim period by failing to read the sentiment of the people. (Renua anyone?). Be interesting to see how the likes of Peadar Tóibín do next time out having isolated himself from his party. As you say, people are fickle.
