Off Topic Thread 4.0

Can we create a separate thread for politics discussion - it's going to be an eventful few weeks and plenty on here seem to enjoy discussing it?

connemara man wrote: »

and that will end the politics discussion for today

Just out of curiosity, why?

and that will end the politics discussion for today

Zzippy wrote: »

Nah, he's an ideological Eurosceptic, it's not playing politics. He genuinely wants out of the EU. He did f*ck all to campaign for Remain. If Labour replaced him with Keir Starmer and campaigned for a second referendum and a pro-remain platform they would walk the election. As it is, even with the Tories in complete disarray, they are still behind in the polls with Corbyn. He is unelectable as PM.

troyzer wrote: »

I think you're being really, really optimistic. It seems to me that Corbyn is just bored with the Brexit talk, is happy enough with it but would prefer to get back to his own pet issues.

Because to be fair, Brexit is drowning out everything else.

I think if Corbyn was truly Eurosceptic then he'd be gone as leader. Cameron didn't exactly kill himself on the campaign trail for remain either let's not forget. Labour are natural bed buddies of the EU which has done absolute wonders for UK labour laws.

The Tories are in the throes of a party fracturing civil war.

The DUP threatened to bring the Government down but are now saying get rid of May and the deal and they'll maintain confidence.

The SNP want what the DUP don't want.

Mogg wants May gone and a no deal.

Davis wants May gone, he wants to break their international agreements and begin external trade talks now and wants to dictate a deal to the EU who will 'come around'.

Boris hasn't said much yet but the one definite is that when he does it will make things worse.

The only reason the Tories numbers haven't completely sunk yet is that there is no alternative that people want until Labour take a strong position. Labour are waiting for the Tories to completely collapse and I'm quietly confident once that happens you will see Corbyn adopt a more pro EU tone then.

Backing a second referendum yesterday was a lot more game changing than people realise.

Deleted User wrote: »

Labour are biding their time. They've already signalled indirect support for a second referendum just this week. They don't want to lose the leave element of their base and want to pull as many of them into their voting pool before they cut the legs from under Brexit.

I'm convinced Corybn is playing pure politics on this one and has positioned himself as being in favour of leave whilst his Party are largely on the other side. Optically that's a setup which both leavers and remainers may feel comfortable with.

I think the Tory's are headed for a generation in ignominy.

I think you're being really, really optimistic. It seems to me that Corbyn is just bored with the Brexit talk, is happy enough with it but would prefer to get back to his own pet issues.

Because to be fair, Brexit is drowning out everything else.

Zzippy

Deleted User wrote: »

Labour are biding their time. They've already signalled indirect support for a second referendum just this week. They don't want to lose the leave element of their base and want to pull as many of them into their voting pool before they cut the legs from under Brexit.

I'm convinced Corybn is playing pure politics on this one and has positioned himself as being in favour of leave whilst his Party are largely on the other side. Optically that's a setup which both leavers and remainers may feel comfortable with.

I think the Tory's are headed for a generation in ignominy.

Nah, he's an ideological Eurosceptic, it's not playing politics. He genuinely wants out of the EU. He did f*ck all to campaign for Remain. If Labour replaced him with Keir Starmer and campaigned for a second referendum and a pro-remain platform they would walk the election. As it is, even with the Tories in complete disarray, they are still behind in the polls with Corbyn. He is unelectable as PM.

troyzer wrote: »

Corbyn is so frustrating. It's clear that his only real hang up with the EU is the state aid rules and probably the lack of democratic accountability.

He can't come straight out for Brexit because then he would be removed. Not only would the majority of the PP revolt, his young Corbynista supporters are also Europhiles and will become disillusioned.

Labour are biding their time. They've already signalled indirect support for a second referendum just this week. They don't want to lose the leave element of their base and want to pull as many of them into their voting pool before they cut the legs from under Brexit.

I'm convinced Corybn is playing pure politics on this one and has positioned himself as being in favour of leave whilst his Party are largely on the other side. Optically that's a setup which both leavers and remainers may feel comfortable with.

I think the Tory's are headed for a generation in ignominy.

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1063047686868385793?s=19

Corbyn should just admit he's a Brexiteer.

That's the most Tory-lite ad Labour have ever run.

Corbyn is so frustrating. It's clear that his only real hang up with the EU is the state aid rules and probably the lack of democratic accountability.

He can't come straight out for Brexit because then he would be removed. Not only would the majority of the PP revolt, his young Corbynista supporters are also Europhiles and will become disillusioned.

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1063047686868385793?s=19

Corbyn should just admit he's a Brexiteer.

I get a weird "call to arms" vibe from that.

thomond2006

https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1063047686868385793?s=19

Corbyn should just admit he's a Brexiteer.

Dave_The_Sheep

Squidgy Black wrote: »

That's been the main issue that May has faced. There's so many members of parliament criticising her and saying she's doing a terrible job. But then they're not willing to take it on themselves, because they know they won't be able to do anything about it and suffer the same faith.

I don't see how they can call for a vote of no confidence, when there's nobody putting their hand up to replace her.

That's because they're well aware of the situation May is in. She's in a place where she has to lead negotiations on the absolutely unnegotiable. It is/was a loser from the start, GFA and the EU made that clear. No one could do it, and as such no one wants to be in charge of failing to do it. Hence Raab (and Davis) resigning - today was particularly cowardly - Raab resigning as a result of a deal he was in charge of negotiating.

The mind boggles as to how they've backed themselves into this corner. The obvious answer to the whole thing is to not ****ing leave in the first place, but they're so scared of each other (in the Tory party) and the 35-40% of absolute mongs in their electorate that they can't risk losing power and just telling people to cop the **** on and stay in.

Cameron is a dickhead (politically and otherwise) of the highest order, but he had the right idea. Walk away and avoid the whole stupid ****ing mess. I've said from the start that I don't think they'll actually leave. For the first time, I'm looking at this and realising how insane they really are - and I might be wrong. Hope not though.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

First football match I've been to in years. Atmosphere is head and shoulders above even a munster vs leinster game and the place was 2/3 full at most with tons of people going to the bars at length.

really? I don't get to see pitch from y bar and rely on hearing crowd or talking to customers and the atmosphere tonight was well below any big or somewhat big Rigby game.

awec wrote: »

Second time ever at lansdowne road for football tonight. Amazing how different the place feels.

Not a wax cowboy hat to be seen.

First football match I've been to in years. Atmosphere is head and shoulders above even a munster vs leinster game and the place was 2/3 full at most with tons of people going to the bars at length.

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

You in the away end or home end?

home end.

awec

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I work most days in bars/hospitality there. ****e crowd and even worse game tonight. From working as well it's completely different to rugby games.

You in the away end or home end?

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

Second time ever at lansdowne road for football tonight. Amazing how different the place feels.

Not a wax cowboy hat to be seen.

I work most days in bars/hospitality there. ****e crowd and even worse game tonight. From working as well it's completely different to rugby games.

awec

And seriously lads, Martin ONeill needs to go.

awec

Second time ever at lansdowne road for football tonight. Amazing how different the place feels.

Not a wax cowboy hat to be seen.

thomond2006

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The AFC is such a bh of a conference though. But we should have the seed spot sewn up unless the Bengals go on a massive run and we tank it completely.

The Bengals have collapsed since starting at 4-1. They're on a run of three losses if you take out a narrow win over the Bucs who are terrible. They will need to win at the Ravens on Sunday otherwise they face being 5-5 with trips to the Chargers, Browns and Steelers to come.

I don't see a wildcard coming from the AFC South as those teams are closely matched and will trade wins. The Dolphins are a team that could go on a run for a wildcard spot as they play the Bills twice and host the Patriots who have been dodgy on the road.

TL/DR: I can't see the Chargers messing this up, even though they're the Chargers!

On another note, there are some cracking late games this weekend. Packers @ Seahawks tonight, my Bears hosting the Vikings on Sunday and Rams vs Chiefs on Monday.

stephen_n wrote: »

Bobo will be in there now, he can claim there’s no other choice at this stage but a hard Brexit and it’s not his fault. All the consequences will be blamed on May.

There was an apt comparison made to Churchill taking over from Chamberlain made about Boris and May. Made me chuckle a bit.

I was taunting one of the lads who works in my company, but in our Belfast office, earlier. He voted remain. He was going ballistic saying they had rolled over to the EU and that it was a disgrace. Our company is Irish but with a UK branch, and a lot of our customers are public sector across both, funded largely by grants from the EU.

So after ranting about it for a bit, he then said "but my bonus is being paid in euro so it works out well that way".

stephen_n

Squidgy Black wrote: »

That's been the main issue that May has faced. There's so many members of parliament criticising her and saying she's doing a terrible job. But then they're not willing to take it on themselves, because they know they won't be able to do anything about it and suffer the same faith.

I don't see how they can call for a vote of no confidence, when there's nobody putting their hand up to replace her.

Bobo will be in there now, he can claim there’s no other choice at this stage but a hard Brexit and it’s not his fault. All the consequences will be blamed on May.

Deleted User wrote: »

Jacob Rees-Mogg pushes for motion of no confidence in May.

Asked will he seek leadership "No"

Gove is offered job as Brexit Secretary and refuses the post.

These are two of the key people behind Brexit. I have never seen such an unbelievable lack of integrity go unquestioned and unpunished in politics.

The absolute cowards.

That's been the main issue that May has faced. There's so many members of parliament criticising her and saying she's doing a terrible job. But then they're not willing to take it on themselves, because they know they won't be able to do anything about it and suffer the same faith.

I don't see how they can call for a vote of no confidence, when there's nobody putting their hand up to replace her.

Deleted User wrote: »

Jacob Rees-Mogg pushes for motion of no confidence in May.

Asked will he seek leadership "No"

Gove is offered job as Brexit Secretary and refuses the post.

These are two of the key people behind Brexit. I have never seen such an unbelievable lack of integrity go unquestioned and unpunished in politics.

The absolute cowards.

Some craic.

Squidgy Black wrote: »

It's hilarious. I mean seriously scary to watch it all go to shít and the potential repercussions, but still hilarious.

The DUP are fuming and have realised they were being played the entire time. The Leave side are going ballistic saying the government have bent over for the EU. The UK government is starting to topple.

Jacob Rees-Mogg pushes for motion of no confidence in May.

Asked will he seek leadership "No"

Gove is offered job as Brexit Secretary and refuses the post.

These are two of the key people behind Brexit. I have never seen such an unbelievable lack of integrity go unquestioned and unpunished in politics.

The absolute cowards.

It's hilarious. I mean seriously scary to watch it all go to shít and the potential repercussions, but still hilarious.

The DUP are fuming and have realised they were being played the entire time. The Leave side are going ballistic saying the government have bent over for the EU. The UK government is starting to topple.

Buer wrote: »

Not nearly as interesting as today is turning out to be.

Following the House of Commons at the moment is like watching a car crash. Looks like the government/PM is likely to fall. Following the optimism of the prior 36 hours, it looks like it's all going to fall apart completely.

I can't believe that there was any optimism that wasn't deeply based in wishful thinking. The Brexit deal was never going to satisfy everyone, as it turns out it satisfies no one.

Those who want to remain see it as the same but worse. Those who want to leave see it as worse but the same. It was dead on arrival and finally we start getting to the meat of the situation which is a party and country divided and most likely heading back to the polls.

The leave campaign way overshot, they've turned people almost violently against the EU and a chunk of British society will now never accept the EU in any way shape or form. Eurosceptisism was never really about the EU, it was a convenient way for opportunistic conservatives to maintain a consistent voting base despite it being a concept without any real merit.

Now the Tories are split and it doesn't look like a rift that will be healed any time soon. The ERG are effectively trapped by their position on Europe, they can't walk away from it but they can't figure out a way for it to work as they promised.

It's an absolute car crash.

The only tiny silver lining is that May is now talking about No-Deal, Deal or Stay. The 'stay' part is new and whilst I've no doubt it's intended as a threat to the right within her own party, it's also something for the remain side to cling to and push for a peoples vote.

Amazing that the DUP are against it because it makes them special, and the SNP are against them because it doesn't make them special.

Strange times.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting day ahead for Brexit. May needs everyone on board, but it looks like the right wing Tories and DUP will now have to bring down the Government.

Not nearly as interesting as today is turning out to be.

Following the House of Commons at the moment is like watching a car crash. Looks like the government/PM is likely to fall. Following the optimism of the prior 36 hours, it looks like it's all going to fall apart completely.