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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Rhineshark

kuro68k wrote: »

The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.

1. The EU
2. Remainers
3. Ireland
4. Corbyn

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joe40

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Some Scottish people are not, but that's beside the point. If Ireland voted for IRexit it would vote as a country. Some counties might be unhappy because most of their voters had made the opposite choice, but that's democracy, the majority wins.

That is true. I am actually delighted for the DUP, they have shat in the Westminster nest and will be sent home never to have a voice again, to a devastated northern Ireland closer to a UI since Maggie considered cutting it lose.

Thats the irony that is lost on the DUP. While there was an invisible border, dual nationality, reasonable prosperity there was no actual stomach to push for a united ireland among many nationalist.
I live in the south but work in the north and people there balk at the idea of paying for doctor visits, high cost of living etc. A united ireland was not on many people's radar.
Put in border controls, ni starts to feel very British again. A border poll could now start to look attractive.
The best way to preserve the union is to keep things exactly as they are on the ground. If that means a few checks on goods at ports it should be a small price to pay.

prawnsambo

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Belief doth butter no parsnips. Belief is what got Britain in this mess. That utter moron Farage was still talking about German car manufacturers and French champagne makers forcing the EU's hand on the news today.. today!

Ha ha! Utter charlatan. JRM was also on talking about the wonderful WTO rules he's so enamoured of. Always fails to mention that not one country in the world trades on WTO rules alone. Or that the UK's pathetically photocopied EU schedule has been rejected by the USA, NZ, Moldova, Argentina etc. The copy job was so bad, it was still priced in euros.

ThePanjandrum

devnull wrote: »

The level of ignorance in general towards the GFA and the events that led up to it and the sum that makes up it's parts to achieve peace on this Island being shown from some posters on here is no surprise though, I heard it on a regular basis in the UK and most of them just would happily cut NI off if they had the chance.

If that's aimed at me, you're wrong, I have a good knowledge of what is included in the GFA. I also have no intention of cutting Northern Ireland from the UK, although if they decided they wanted to leave then that would be up to them.

charlie14

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Some Scottish people are not, but that's beside the point. If Ireland voted for IRexit it would vote as a country. Some counties might be unhappy because most of their voters had made the opposite choice, but that's democracy, the majority wins.

It may not be beside the point for the majority of Scottish voters who voted remain when the next Scottish Independence vote comes around.
Democracy and all that.

theguzman

devnull wrote: »

You will find that the Irish electorate would not be so foolish to allow something as damaging as IRExit to happen so we have no worries in that regard. We don't even have a eurosceptic party, let alone a party fighting a civil war with itself on a daily basis as is happening in the Tory party for the last few decades.

One of the best things about the UK making a laughing stock out of itself is that it's brought pretty much every single political party in our country together to work in the national interest. Pretty much all the parties in the state have been united on their support for the governments strong and stable position on this matter.

You will be waiting a long time for IRexit, so best try and save your own country as we're doing perfectly fine without the poison of the Brexiteers and the deplorable media that the UK is well known for.

Irexit Freedom Party
https://www.irexitfreedom.ie/

They are holding a meeting in Galway this weekend I believe.

Fianna Fail are currently experiencing alot of internal conflict as are Sinn Fein currently.

We have Pravada RTE providing liberal brainwashing on a daily basis and the rest of Private Media is currently controlled by a FG sympathiser.

Ireland and the UK are much more similar than you think.

hill16bhoy

For two years we've had people openly hoping for a "soft Brexit". May's deal is "soft Brexit", and yet now it seems nobody wants it.

May delivered the only deal possible. At least she delivered something.

But the problem is not with the deal. The problem is with her rhetoric since becoming Prime Minister. At every turn she emboldened the Mad Max crackpots, and in the process progressively fed their delusion about what was possible, and fed their egos and fed their arrogance. She not just allowed, but encouraged the crackpots to believe they could have all the benefits of EU membership and none of the responsibilities.

She should never, ever have done that.

Because at the end she had to break her own red lines. She was always going to have to do that to get a deal.

And when you make grandiose claims about what you can supposedly achieve, you better achieve it, otherwise whatever you get will be a massive let down and leave people fuming.

May didn't talk the talk out of arrogance. She did it out of fear and weakness. She has been weak since day one. That's why she called the election too. She felt weak and felt she needed electoral validation, and miscalculated hopelessly.

This deal is actually as true a representation of the referendum result as possible, which was for soft Brexit. But that's exactly what soft Brexit is - being locked into being a rule taker with no say over changing the rules.

How many people in Britain could have told you that before the referendum or even a couple of weeks ago, though? Few.

devnull

Necro wrote: »

Why do you want a border between NI and the Republic at all?

Unfortunately in this thread, we are once again seeing the ignorance of the British people who have no idea about the politics or realities of how NI and ROI function or interact with each other on a day to day basis.

All it will do is bring a United Ireland ever closer, since it is the only way that many in NI will be able to escape many of the problems that are going to come their way due to the UK governments complete incompetence.

prawnsambo

theguzman wrote: »

Pure absolute scare-mongering, How come people outside of the EU can buy those medicines just as well.

Your grasp of what happens when customs checks start slowing down traffic and trade is frightening. I can actually remember what it was like before the CU and SM and back then, trade was a lot lower. At Dover the increase has been fourfold. Add just six minutes to each transit and there's gridlock in a few hours.

Necro

theguzman wrote: »

Rents would be much lower as immigration would be far less and the pressure to housing less. The economy is not the most important thing for alot of people in Ireland, there is security, culture and way of life, all of which are undermined and being destroyed by the EU.

Yep, definitely being destroyed - as opposed to what is essentially political anarchy in the UK at the moment.

And will only get worse if no deal is agreed.

Junkyard Tom

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

politicians who actually believe in what they're doing

Belief doth butter no parsnips. Belief is what got Britain in this mess. That utter moron Farage was still talking about German car manufacturers and French champagne makers forcing the EU's hand on the news today.. today!

ThePanjandrum

Anthracite wrote: »

Best of luck with that. You will be eaten alive.

We take our chances. A good deal comes because it benefits both parties.

Necro

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

I'm happy with the idea of Ireland and Northern Ireland living as good neighbours, nor with the idea of the people of Northern Ireland determining the status of their country.

But that has nothing to do with saying that there cannot be a hard border because of the GFA. The GFA allows hard borders, or as hard as the border will ever get.

Why do you want a border between NI and the Republic at all?

ThePanjandrum

Infini wrote: »

He fails to understand the GFA was designed in a way to negate the issue of Nationality as a factor.

I'm happy with the idea of Ireland and Northern Ireland living as good neighbours, nor with the idea of the people of Northern Ireland determining the status of their country.

But that has nothing to do with saying that there cannot be a hard border because of the GFA. The GFA allows hard borders, or as hard as the border will ever get.

devnull

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Some Scottish people are not, but that's beside the point. If Ireland voted for IRexit it would vote as a country. Some counties might be unhappy because most of their voters had made the opposite choice, but that's democracy, the majority wins.

You will find that the Irish electorate would not be so foolish to allow something as damaging as IRExit to happen so we have no worries in that regard. We don't even have a eurosceptic party, let alone a party fighting a civil war with itself on a daily basis as is happening in the Tory party for the last few decades.

One of the best things about the UK making a laughing stock out of itself is that it's brought pretty much every single political party in our country together to work in the national interest. Pretty much all the parties in the state have been united on their support for the governments strong and stable position on this matter.

You will be waiting a long time for IRexit, so best try and save your own country as we're doing perfectly fine without the poison of the Brexiteers and the deplorable media that the UK is well known for.

Necro

theguzman wrote: »

Pure absolute scare-mongering, How come people outside of the EU can buy those medicines just as well. A no deal would send a clear message to the elites in Brussels that their plan has failed. Wages in Ireland should be €15-€20/hour in most jobs if it was not for the Freedom of Movement and Eastern European Migration into Ireland. For this reason I am heavily against the EU it has destroyed jobs and conditions for workers all over the country.

I'd love to see where you came up with those figures for wages tbh.

I was in Australia where wages are around that and it made 0 difference as the poster above mentioned because of - yep, you guessed it - inflation.

I suppose you could just devalue the currency and print more money for the laugh while you're at it.

LeinsterDub

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Sovereignty was the main reason that the UK voted for Brexit. People don't agree with the concept of the superiority of EU laws.

Parliament always has been sovereign.

theguzman

Anthracite wrote: »

So if we were paying 20 euros an hour to do basically anything, inflation would still be low, right? Rents would be at the same sky-high levels as they are now? The economy would be as competitive as it is now?

Gotcha.

Rents would be much lower as immigration would be far less and the pressure to housing less. The economy is not the most important thing for alot of people in Ireland, there is security, culture and way of life, all of which are undermined and being destroyed by the EU.

FrancieBrady

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Some Scottish people are not, but that's beside the point. If Ireland voted for IRexit it would vote as a country. Some counties might be unhappy because most of their voters had made the opposite choice, but that's democracy, the majority wins.

That is true. I am actually delighted for the DUP, they have shat in the Westminster nest and will be sent home never to have a voice again, to a devastated northern Ireland closer to a UI since Maggie considered cutting it lose.

Anthracite

theguzman wrote: »

Pure absolute scare-mongering, How come people outside of the EU can buy those medicines just as well. A no deal would send a clear message to the elites in Brussels that their plan has failed. Wages in Ireland should be €15-€20/hour in most jobs if it was not for the Freedom of Movement and Eastern European Migration into Ireland. For this reason I am heavily against the EU it has destroyed jobs and conditions for workers all over the country.

So if we were paying 20 euros an hour to do basically anything, inflation would still be low, right? Rents would be at the same sky-high levels as they are now? The economy would be as competitive as it is now?

Gotcha.

prawnsambo

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

It's not in Strand two though, is it? The nearest it comes to anything like that is in para 5 (ii) where it says that

Which is not about the border itself and is beyond the competence of any country within the EU. Brexit will give the UK this competency, but Ireland won't be able to reciprocate.

Are you hard of reading? I actually gave examples of what has developed over the last twenty years under strand 2. I haven't even mentioned the 49 million border crossings a year for trade and work or the 208 border crosiings where that trade an work traffic crosses. Or the fact that there's an all Ireland electricity market that has NI completely dependant on Ireland for gas an electricity.

Water John

Telegraph has it that the DUP won't support the Govn't unless Tories replace TM.
Foster mentioned that possible action 2 days ago. That really should anger every voter in the UK.

Guzman, lots of people would be in Australia and the wages for those left would be min wage, get real. The jobs wouldn't be here.

theguzman

bilston wrote: »

So the global accounts manager of Astrazeneca says worst case scenario in a no deal Brexit that some medicines may not be available to all parts of the UK and that some patients may need to change product...some of which will be less effective...AND ACCORDING TO SKY NEWS 32% OF PEOPLE THINK A NO DEAL WILL BE A GOOD THING.. .WHAT THE ACTUAL F*** IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE.

People should be forced to take some kind of test to be given a license to vote because there are some very stupid people out there

Pure absolute scare-mongering, How come people outside of the EU can buy those medicines just as well. A no deal would send a clear message to the elites in Brussels that their plan has failed. Wages in Ireland should be €15-€20/hour in most jobs if it was not for the Freedom of Movement and Eastern European Migration into Ireland. For this reason I am heavily against the EU it has destroyed jobs and conditions for workers all over the country.

ThePanjandrum

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So Scotland are happy then?

Some Scottish people are not, but that's beside the point. If Ireland voted for IRexit it would vote as a country. Some counties might be unhappy because most of their voters had made the opposite choice, but that's democracy, the majority wins.

An Ciarraioch

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Necro wrote: »

Yep... how's that going for ye by the way? :pac:

We'll be fine, thanks, especially if we get some politicians who actually believe in what they're doing instead of having Remainers trying to foul everything up.

It's a bit of a surprise really when you have such paragons of virtue as your parliamentarians.

When you go into negotiations with an organisation that operates on the basis of codified rules and practices, and on the mutual behalf of members, an ad hoc tactical approach was never going to be of much use to the UK.

ThePanjandrum

prawnsambo wrote: »

The specifics are in strand 2. All Ireland economy, All Ireland security, All Ireland health market. Co-operation on a multitude of levels to which a hard border would cause a set back of two decades of work.

It's not in Strand two though, is it? The nearest it comes to anything like that is in para 5 (ii) where it says that

to use best endeavours to reach agreement on the adoption of common policies, in areas where there is a mutual cross-border and all island benefit, and which are within the competence of both Administrations, North and South, making determined efforts to overcome any disagreements;

Which is not about the border itself and is beyond the competence of any country within the EU. Brexit will give the UK this competency, but Ireland won't be able to reciprocate.

Thargor

I know we're not allowed image dump but saw this on reddit and had to laugh

ARNOLD J RIMMER

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

We'll be fine, thanks, especially if we get some politicians who actually believe in what they're doing instead of having Remainers trying to foul everything up.

It's a bit of a surprise really when you have such paragons of virtue as your parliamentarians.

Will it matter now? I don't believe the UK and EU have anything else to offer each other. The EU consider this agreement as the agreement.

You have the current agreement, hard brexit and no brexit to choose from.

Anthracite

prawnsambo wrote: »

You really think that's what it takes? Did Dominic Raab not believe hard enough? David Davis? Boris Johnson? Oh sorry, those last two ran away. And the other 'believers' like JRM and Gove wouldn't step up. Yeah, belief is all that's needed.

Who needs facts when you have faith?

devnull

Shelga wrote: »

Yeah, I mean obviously I think the deal is dire, and the entire Brexit fiasco is a ****show of epic proportions, but how is this not bringing home to the imbeciles of the UK that it is simply not possible to have everything that they want.

Because they are self important and the likes of JRM and all the other people from that laughably titled European Research Group are experts at saying everything they want and will get but when it comes to saying how they are going to get it and overcome the problems they will face in doing so, they go very quiet and resort to the usual baseless rhetoric.

With this bunch of lunatics at the asylum, who are generally from very affluent backgrounds and used to getting what they want, they just expect for the other side to roll over as they are of utmost importance and that the European Union cannot live without them. They also seem to believe that punishment is a synonym for consequences, at least by their use of the word whenever they talk about being punished.

Of course they can leave, but it means a hard border, no free trade, and economic chaos. This idea that the EU is blackmailing them is laughable.

Indeed and the best bit is the Brexiteers coming out today saying that they do not like the deal because of the fact that it means that they are not fully out, when the whole idea of having any kind of deal in the first place, on their impossible terms or not, is by it's nature, to retain some of the benefits that membership brings.

It's like resigning from your job, and then asking your employer to allow you to keep some of your perks and then when they don't agree to do so, claiming that you are being blackmailed. It's the UK's choice to leave. Nobody owes them anything, if they don't like it, they shouldn't leave.

Unfortunately the UK seems to believe that they should be able to cherry pick, despite the fact that is completely illogical. There's too much self importance and egocentric posturing about the place of their country in the world which is not based on the actual reality.

charlie14

golfball37 wrote: »

The Irish have been sneering at the decision of the British people since the result came in. The glee being extolled here over Britain’s travails is quite childish. If Britain suffers so will we.

I have not heard anyone sneering since the referendum result.
I heard quite a few though remarking that they could not believe that so many were so gullible to believe the fairy-tales the Leave campaign were peddling.

You are quite correct though. If Britain suffers so will we. But we were not the instigators of this possible suffering. Britain is, and in doing so did not give two tinkers damns how it would effect us.

If some are now getting a bit of enjoyment from this shambles of Britain`s own making it`s only human nature