Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

The specifics are in strand 2. All Ireland economy, All Ireland security, All Ireland health market. Co-operation on a multitude of levels to which a hard border would cause a set back of two decades of work.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Arlene wants the GFA to be removed.
By facilitating Arlene's Brexit hopes they risked the GFA

Whether she wants it removed or not, but that's beside the point. The point is that the GFA does not mention border arrangements and people should not claim that it does.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

The vote was UK wide, the UK voted to leave.

So Scotland are happy then?

Infini

Seth Brundle wrote: »

A hard Brexit will impact on the GFA. To my knowledge nobody said that keeping the border open was in the GFA. That doesn't negate any impact on the GFA. Why do you persist in twisting my point?

He fails to understand the GFA was designed in a way to negate the issue of Nationality as a factor. It was written at a time when it wasnt even a considered possibility that anyone would leave the EU. That's why it was so effective. Without Brexit the possibility of a Border Poll was decades away, because of it it could be only a matter of years all because of the ignorant stupidity of Brexiteers who dont care about NI.

FrancieBrady

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Whether she wants it removed or not, but that's beside the point. The point is that the GFA does not mention border arrangements and people should not claim that it does.

Who claimed it did?

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Whether she wants it removed or not, but that's beside the point. The point is that the GFA does not mention border arrangements and people should not claim that it does.

Like I said, nobody claimed it did. However the foolishness that is Brexit is a risk to the GFA. A hard Brexit vastly increases that risk.

Anthracite wrote: »

That would be the agreement they came up with when the EU actually didn't allow them to ignore the backstop agreement they had already made?

The one Raab and Johnson have resigned over?

You ignore the fact that there is no agreement. The document is a record of how negotiations had progressed to that point.

Shelga wrote: »

May has managed to get the EU to agree that the UK does not have to sign up to freedom of movement, while also maintaining an open border in NI. How come people aren't happier about these things? I thought FOM was the main sticking point for a lot of people.

Sovereignty was the main reason that the UK voted for Brexit. People don't agree with the concept of the superiority of EU laws.

Anthracite

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Why is it foolish? Ireland already trades with the USA on WTO rules. It would be an advantage to you if you had an FTA but you are not allowed to do so by the EU.

We don't want the EU making our rules although we are happy to trade with it at arms' length, so having relationships determined by an FTA is the most sensible arrangement.

Best of luck with that. You will be eaten alive.

devnull

Infini wrote: »

He fails to understand the GFA was designed in a way to negate the issue of Nationality as a factor. It was written at a time when it wasnt even a considered possibility that anyone would leave the EU. That's why it was so effective. Without Brexit the possibility of a Border Poll was decades away, because of it it could be only a matter of years all because of the ignorant stupidity of Brexiteers who dont care about NI.

I never thought I would see a border poll anytime soon but honestly from what has been happening lately it's going to be much close than we originally thought, without a doubt and honestly if there is a no deal brexit, which has come a step closer, it will really need to happen sooner rather than later because else the consequences for NI outside the Europe, cut off from us, would be very bad.

The level of ignorance in general towards the GFA and the events that led up to it and the sum that makes up it's parts to achieve peace on this Island being shown from some posters on here is no surprise though, I heard it on a regular basis in the UK and most of them just would happily cut NI off if they had the chance.

PeadarCo

ThePanjandrum wrote:

Why is it foolish? Ireland already trades with the USA on WTO rules. It would be an advantage to you if you had an FTA but you are not allowed to do so by the EU.

Ireland/EU/UK currently doesn't trade with the US under WTO rules.

Remember the UK still has to enter the WTO as a full member. There are still potentially numerous issues with this. For example Moldova is threatening to block the UK over a dispute over visas. Other countries are also naturally trying to obtain a better deal. As recent negotiations have shown the UK isn't exactly is a strong position to bargain. This helped by the your comment and Raab surprise about how important the centuries old Dover Calais trade route was to UK trade. Both examples show a complete lack of understanding about how international trade works.

Anthracite

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

You ignore the fact that there is no agreement. The document is a record of how negotiations had progressed to that point.

So what are you here trolling for?

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Why is it foolish? Ireland already trades with the USA on WTO rules. It would be an advantage to you if you had an FTA but you are not allowed to do so by the EU.

Irealnd trades with the USA under a multitude of co-operation agreements between the EU and the USA.

Infini

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

The vote was UK wide, the UK voted to leave.

England and Wales voted leave, Scotland and NI voted remain, the knife edge result is also not a good result to pursue such a divisive policy especially since the UK only retained Scotland 2 years beforehand in part because of the issue of EU citizenship. If this had happened before Indyref then Scotland would have likely become an independent state at this point.

Brexit is a failure end of story. Making tired simplistic points like the UK voted to leave and thinking thats it is the reason the UK is heading towards a breakup within the next decade if this isnt stopped. The problem with this Brexiteer argument as well is by saying the whole of the UK voted to leave full stop etc is that they dont want to acknoledge the 49% who voted remain. It's that refusal that's risking the Breakup of the UK because those who voted remain and are being pushed aside with no interest in how this affects them is the kind of short sigtedness that ultimately causes them to leave entirely.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

A hard Brexit will impact on the GFA. To my knowledge nobody said that keeping the border open was in the GFA. That doesn't negate any impact on the GFA. Why do you persist in twisting my point?

So why did you say

She did try to ****over the GFA in order to appease Arlene.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Sovereignty was the main reason that the UK voted for Brexit. People don't agree with the concept of the superiority of EU laws.

What about EU laws or the superiority of them do they disagree with?
Is there an example of a bad law imposed by the nasty faceless bureaucrats in the EU?

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So why did you say

They're not mutually exclusive. You'll figure it out eventually.

Water John

Not much point in engaging with this Troll. Seems like a hamster on the wheel, going round and round, going nowhere.

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

So why did you say

Which bit of two simple facts is confusing you?

Shelga

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Sovereignty was the main reason that the UK voted for Brexit. People don't agree with the concept of the superiority of EU laws.

Yeah, I mean obviously I think the deal is dire, and the entire Brexit fiasco is a ****show of epic proportions, but how is this not bringing home to the imbeciles of the UK that it is simply not possible to have everything that they want.

Of course they can leave, but it means a hard border, no free trade, and economic chaos. This idea that the EU is blackmailing them is laughable.

bilston

So the global accounts manager of Astrazeneca says worst case scenario in a no deal Brexit that some medicines may not be available to all parts of the UK and that some patients may need to change product...some of which will be less effective...AND ACCORDING TO SKY NEWS 32% OF PEOPLE THINK A NO DEAL WILL BE A GOOD THING.. .WHAT THE ACTUAL F*** IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE.

People should be forced to take some kind of test to be given a license to vote because there are some very stupid people out there

Necro wrote: »

Yep... how's that going for ye by the way? :pac:

We'll be fine, thanks, especially if we get some politicians who actually believe in what they're doing instead of having Remainers trying to foul everything up.

It's a bit of a surprise really when you have such paragons of virtue as your parliamentarians.

ancapailldorcha

Anthracite wrote: »

So what are you here trolling for?

If you suspect someone of trolling, please use the report function instead of bringing it up on thread.

bilston wrote: »

So the global accounts manager of Astrazeneca says worst case scenario in a no deal Brexit that some medicines may not be available to all parts of the UK and that some patients may need to change product...some of which will be less effective...AND ACCORDING TO SKY NEWS 32% OF PEOPLE THINK A NO DEAL WILL BE A GOOD THING.. .WHAT THE ACTUAL F*** IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE.

People should be forced to take some kind of test to be given a license to vote because there are some very stupid people out there

I don't know if you heard the chap who phoned into James O'Brien this morning. It was a riveting piece of radio and clearly shows that some people have realised what this deal actually means. Hard to listen to all the same.

Here

Infini

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Sovereignty was the main reason that the UK voted for Brexit. People don't agree with the concept of the superiority of EU laws.

They voted for Brexit because people like Boris Johnson put up bullshít on the side of a bus that ultimately was incorrect and those said cost's they said they'd save are now being eaten up by Brexit because being part of the EU allowed the UK to make use of the EU institutions instead of having to do them themselves (trade etc) at their own cost.

Then you got the like of Farage who put up misleading posters like the EU would swarm the UK with immigrants which were total BS. Plenty of those problems weren't caused by the EU they were the UK's own feck up's at the time with their own immigrant policies. The sad irony is that if the UK wasn't wasting time on Brexit they probably would have had a better progress on immigration expecially from those outside the EU as people in many EU countries want less of this right now.

They voted for Brexit because they believed lies that have ultimately been proven here to be factually incorrect or downright distorted (see Daily Fail, Shítpost Express).

The ultimate problem with Brexiteers is they want to leave the EU and believe in unicorns and other deluded fantasies but never want to take responsiblity or admit the reality that leaving the EU has serious consequences and costs. They refuse to admit they're wrong and it's the UK that will suffer the consequences of their stupidity and folly if they dont stop this fiasco.

REBELSAFC

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What about EU laws or the superiority of them do they disagree with?
Is there an example of a bad law imposed by the nasty faceless bureaucrats in the EU?

You don't see bendy bananas anymore. I miss bendy bananas

Necro

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

We'll be fine, thanks, especially if we get some politicians who actually believe in what they're doing instead of having Remainers trying to foul everything up.

It's a bit of a surprise really when you have such paragons of virtue as your parliamentarians.

Shame that's what... 49%, probably more now of the UK's voters. Not sure what Irish politicians have to do with Brexit though.

They've done well in looking after Irish interests - as they should.