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people driving with Dementia

Andy From Sligo

88 year old man went missing last night in Sligo family worried as he suffers from Dementia , was last seen driving a ford fiesta at around 7pm.

Been found today thankfully and us getting the necessary treatment... But I have got to ask it... Why are we letting people drive on the roads with dementia?

Unless he doesn't drive and just saw the keys lying there on the table there and just picked them up , but it's doubtful isn't it?

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corner of hells

I've a large extended family lots of aunt's , uncles and cousins , various types of dementia have appeared over the years along with Huntington's disease.

Some of my cousins and myself invariably just take the cars keys and even hide the cars , I hid my father's car , rang his insurance company and explained what was going on.

Difficult stuff but myself and some of my cousins have a bit of laugh about it.

orourkeda1977

Most drivers are demented in Ireand.

He should fit straight in

the_syco

Riskymove wrote: »

They can only continue to drive if signed off by GP

Untrue. They can continue to drive if they find a car key :pac:

=-=

Also, see cases every few weeks/months of people driving with no insurance.

Andy From Sligo

the_syco wrote: »

Untrue. They can continue to drive if they find a car key :pac:

=-=

Also, see cases every few weeks/months of people driving with no insurance.

as long as they are not suffering from dementia , driving whilst intoxicated by drink / drugs / prescribed drugs and their reactions are good and know how to drive - I think they could be some of the safest drivers to share the road with!

Andy From Sligo

on the Garda facebook page about this particular case in Sligo last night someone had the audacity to suggest "how was he allowed out driving with dementia in the first place?" - needless to say the rest of the "Thank godder's he's Ok and found safe' - absolutely came down on this woman poster like a ton of bricks - wolves thrown to the lions - "how could she say such a thing!!" - "he is a lovely man and has a loving caring family around him" - and "he just got confused and lost his way thats all as he was driving " -- a few posts afterwards the woman said "I wasnt trying to be funny or anything I was just concerned about him and how he could have got out and was he being looked after ok and just concerned for him" ...

Andy From Sligo

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Enforcement is the key.

But it doesn't happen much.

any pun intended?

beertons

There's probably more people on the road waiting for a cataracts surgery. They can't see a thing, let alone head games.

sbsquarepants

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Its the lads with 40 or 50 driving convictions in front of a judge, with their lawyer arguing he's (the defendant) turned his life around.

He has 50 convictions your honour, but he can't remember them, so they don't count!:D

Graces7

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

88 year old man went missing last night in Sligo family worried as he suffers from Dementia , was last seen driving a ford fiesta at around 7pm.

Been found today thankfully and us getting the necessary treatment... But I have got to ask it... Why are we letting people drive on the roads with dementia?

Unless he doesn't drive and just saw the keys lying there on the table there and just picked them up , but it's doubtful isn't it?

Actually that does happen and is quite "logical" for dementia that clicks in on memories ,,, probably drove all his life long and saw the keys ,,, family need to be more vigilant

Andy From Sligo

Graces7 wrote: »

Actually that does happen and is quite "logical" for dementia that clicks in on memories ,,, probably drove all his life long and saw the keys ,,, family need to be more vigilant

on the other hand I suppose it can happen so quickly - its like going back to when you had children , I know when we had kids you had to hide everything or put it up high out of reach - and every parent however they are careful enough there could always be the odd time a lapse of concentration and genuinely forgot to put the keys away

seamus

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

on the Garda facebook page about this particular case in Sligo last night someone had the audacity to suggest "how was he allowed out driving with dementia in the first place?" - needless to say the rest of the "Thank godder's he's Ok and found safe' - absolutely came down on this woman poster like a ton of bricks - wolves thrown to the lions - "how could she say such a thing!!" - "he is a lovely man and has a loving caring family around him" - and "he just got confused and lost his way thats all as he was driving " -- a few posts afterwards the woman said "I wasnt trying to be funny or anything I was just concerned about him and how he could have got out and was he being looked after ok and just concerned for him" ...

Because what she said is incredibly naive. Like the guy is toddler who somewho slipped out of his parents' sight for five minutes.

Dementia is a catch-all word for a range of illnesses at all stages of severity. Most people suffering dementia still live independently and don't have their hands held by people watching their every move.

And it can come on quickly. One week your Dad is driving to your house for dinner. He's a bit slower than he used to be and can get confused by fast-moving conversations, but he's generally OK. The next week he was acting a bit funny when your sister visited and now he went out for a drive and hasn't come back.

At what stage should someone have "not let him" get the car keys?

That's why she was pilloried; naivety.

the_syco wrote: »

Untrue. They can continue to drive if they find a car key :pac:

You're joking, but this is the truth of it. Someone with dementia can't be assumed to be aware that they have it. Memory can lapse, they can be aware of it for a long time and then suddenly they start forgetting they have it, and trying to do the things they used to do.

And what's worse, they will fight any attempts to control them - like any adult would - because they don't know about their condition.

So if they know how to drive, and they see a car key, grand. I'll go for a drive. They've forgotten that they were signed off and their insurance is gone. Or they may not care - many forms of dementia damage the moral and ethical decision centres and cause the person to engage in inappropriate behaviour or a general recklessness.

And it's so progressive, that it's hard to spot until the person is barely capable of stringing a sentence together. It's only now when recounting tales of some of the stuff that my grandfather did in his 70s that his family realise they were the actions of someone with onset dementia. When he was propositioning 20 year olds in the supermarket and driving through red lights, it was clear he was incapable, in hindsight the warning signs were there five years before. But you don't see those, because it dials up slowly. The person is not normal one day and erratic the next.

And this is what makes this entire topic very complex. "Take the keys off people with dementia!". Way easier said than done. You can't sell their vehicle without power of attorney. You can't get that without proof of incompetence. They won't be incompetent until much later into the stages of dementia.
They're unlikely to voluntarily sell their vehicle for you. So you have the problem where a vehicle exists that you can't do anything with.
Then you throw in the family bit. You try telling your Dad that even though he's perfectly competent and with it for now, "You have dementia Da, give me your licence, you can't drive any more". Are you going to wrestle him for it? His GP is still signing that cert, how do you block it? Fight it out with your siblings - "He's fine to drive, I'm going to give him back his keys".

It's a fncking curse, this is why it tears families apart.

There is something the state can do, but you'll hate it. We make driving licences really easy to get and really hard to lose. All we have to do is reverse that. Make it hard to get - like several years and several tests before you can get a full licence - and easy to lose, such as resitting tests at five yearly schedules, as well as suspensions and disqualifications for more minor traffic offences.

Not only will that help solve the dementia issue (people will lose their licence well before they're completely gone), it might also put some manners on the rest of us.

ohnonotgmail

There is something the state can do, but you'll hate it. We make driving licences really easy to get and really hard to lose. All we have to do is reverse that. Make it hard to get - like several years and several tests before you can get a full licence - and easy to lose, such as resitting tests at five yearly schedules, as well as suspensions and disqualifications for more minor traffic offences.

Not only will that help solve the dementia issue (people will lose their licence well before they're completely gone), it might also put some manners on the rest of us

I was with you until this point. What makes you think this will solve the problem of people with dementia driving? 5 years is a lifetime with this disease. All this does is cause hassle for those without it. Already people over 70 can only renew their licence for only 1 or 3 years depending on their health. If dementia has been diagnosed then a doctor wont sign them off if they think they are unfit to drive.

seamus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I was with you until this point. What makes you think this will solve the problem of people with dementia driving? 5 years is a lifetime with this disease. All this does is cause hassle for those without it. Already people over 70 can only renew their licence for only 1 or 3 years depending on their health.

See, I knew you wouldn't like it

5 years is a lifetime with this disease. But onset begins well before that. A few will slip through the net, but by and large the majority will lose their licence before they are incompetent enough to be very dangerous.

My parents don't have dementia, but in their 70s I expect would probably have difficulty passing a driving test to modern standards. Even the theory test would be a bit of a struggle. And callous as it may be, it would be for the best if we required all drivers to have such high standards. It is the single most dangerous activity we engage in on a regular basis. We should be treating it as such.

If dementia has been diagnosed then a doctor wont sign them off if they think they are unfit to drive.

Except that as you can see on this thread, doctors will sign them off. GPs often know their patients for many many years and may be reluctant, as any friend would be, to just cut their patient off. It's a flaw in the system. A faceless, impersonal testing authority won't have the same flaw.

ohnonotgmail

seamus wrote: »

See, I knew you wouldn't like it

5 years is a lifetime with this disease. But onset begins well before that. A few will slip through the net, but by and large the majority will lose their licence before they are incompetent enough to be very dangerous.

My parents don't have dementia, but in their 70s I expect would probably have difficulty passing a driving test to modern standards. Even the theory test would be a bit of a struggle. And callous as it may be, it would be for the best if we required all drivers to have such high standards. It is the single most dangerous activity we engage in on a regular basis. We should be treating it as such.

Except that as you can see on this thread, doctors will sign them off. GPs often know their patients for many many years and may be reluctant, as any friend would be, to just cut their patient off. It's a flaw in the system. A faceless, impersonal testing authority won't have the same flaw.

We will have to agree to disagree. The way you talked i assumed you had actual experience of the disease but you don't.

jmayo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

88 year old man went missing last night in Sligo family worried as he suffers from Dementia , was last seen driving a ford fiesta at around 7pm.

Been found today thankfully and us getting the necessary treatment... But I have got to ask it... Why are we letting people drive on the roads with dementia?

Unless he doesn't drive and just saw the keys lying there on the table there and just picked them up , but it's doubtful isn't it?

Would you rather the poor man was out walking in this weather.
Shame on you.

BTW looking at some of the roads and the layout it looks like someone with dementia designed them.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

when my OH goes out driving I say "take care driving" - trouble is what I really mean is "take care driving - there are a lot of idiots out there" you could be a safe as anything driver but its the other morons you got to watch out on the roads - they are the ones that could change someones life completely or cause worse!

On top of the idiots , include Drink driving, dug driving, people not adjusting their speed to weather conditions, people generally speeding, people on prescribed medication , people from other countries who used to drive on the other side of the road, teenagers and young adults acting the maggot to impress their other mates/girlfriends/boyfriends, people thinking about something else instead of concentrating on driving, people fiddling with Sat-Nav / car radio / mobile phone /car gadgets, eating whilst driving, smoking whilst driving, delayed reaction whilst driving and anything else I have missed out...

Ehh you forgot the ones fiddling with themselves.

I hear it is very big in Sligo.
In fact once you drive past Curry or Enniscrone isn't it mandatory.

Anyway what the fook have you against the entire population of Sligo ?
I know you are not really from Sligo, but you need to let it go.

Andy From Sligo

jmayo wrote: »

...Anyway what the fook have you against the entire population of Sligo ?
I know you are not really from Sligo, but you need to let it go.

I dunno - thats news to me - what have I got against the population of sligo? - they are great people (most of them) - you know that shtick you got hold of? - well I think you have the wrong end of it ....

Andy From Sligo

jmayo wrote: »

....I know you are not really from Sligo....

I live in Sligo .. so therefore I am from Sligo! .. (I think a poet said that .. most probably Yeats ) ...

jmayo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I dunno - thats news to me - what have I got against the population of sligo? - they are great people (most of them) - you know that shtick you got hold of? - well I think you have the wrong end of it ....

Well you complained about probably everyone on the roads.

I would of course agree not all Sligo people are great.

Andy From Sligo

jmayo wrote: »

Well you complained about probably everyone on the roads. ....

ah ya but I am sure not everyone on the sligo roads are from sligo .. in fact I am pretty sure of it. A lot of cars with NI number plates on them (and mayo) and sure we all know how they drive

the_syco

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

as long as they are not suffering from dementia , driving whilst intoxicated by drink / drugs / prescribed drugs and their reactions are good and know how to drive - I think they could be some of the safest drivers to share the road with!

Driving whilst intoxicated by drink / drugs / prescribed drugs will lead to slower reaction times.

Driving with dementia may mean that you think you're driving home after work.

Except you are now 85 years old, have no idea who put those traffic lights there.

Andy From Sligo

sending shivers down my spine reading some of the posts in this thread how some people are allowed to carry on driving. So many ads on TV about making sure your tyres have tread on them and everything and there seems to be checkpoints out there to make sure car is taxed / NCT ... but many people driving with various medical infliction's and getting the all clear from their GP's and no-one effectively taking them off the roads it seems

Graces7

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

on the other hand I suppose it can happen so quickly - know when we had kids you had to hide everything or put it up high out of reach - and every parent however they are careful enough there could always be the odd time a lapse of concentration and genuinely forgot to put the keys away

Is why they say "second childhood." Only the old ones have skills the little ones have not yet learned

Graces7

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

sending shivers down my spine reading some of the posts in this thread how some people are allowed to carry on driving. So many ads on TV about making sure your tyres have tread on them and everything and there seems to be checkpoints out there to make sure car is taxed / NCT ... but many people driving with various medical infliction's and getting the all clear from their GP's and no-one effectively taking them off the roads it seems

Old lady aged 91 died while driving in a supermarket car park. Hit a tree.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/woman-91-dies-after-car-hits-tree-in-supermarket-car-park-878511.html

Andy From Sligo

is there any cut off age-wise in this country whereby you are not allowed to continue to drive after a certain age? - i dont think there is. - but then i suppose where would you draw the line i suppose one 90 year old person could have better faculties and response times than another 90 year old person

freshpopcorn

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

is there any cut off age-wise in this country whereby you are not allowed to continue to drive after a certain age? - i dont think there is. - but then i suppose where would you draw the line i suppose one 90 year old person could have better faculties and response times than another 90 year old person

No there isn't.
If you wanted to be very strict about things you could ban everybody from driving who had any touch of a medical condition.

MintyMagnum

A family I know left their mother her car key but took out the starter plug. She would give out about the car not starting but it meant she couldn't go off on her own on a whim. Instead she would be driven wherever - that's if she still actually wanted to go. A bit of 'useless bloody car' and 'I'll call the garage' and it would all be forgotten.

Andy From Sligo

MintyMagnum wrote: »

A family I know left their mother her car key but took out the starter plug. She would give out about the car not starting but it meant she couldn't go off on her own on a whim. Instead she would be driven wherever - that's if she still actually wanted to go. A bit of 'useless bloody car' and 'I'll call the garage' and it would all be forgotten.

I suppose thats what you have to do, always be one step ahead and craftily do things like this to keep them safe . - I just hope to God that Dementia never comes calling to my family , would hate to be put in that position