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Off Topic Thread 4.0

Zzippy

Thread continued from here

The usual rules apply. Non-rugby talk here. Consider this a social place, but like a pub, things like religion and politics can be divisive, so don't say things here you wouldn't say to someone's face in the pub. Sober

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Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

Where's the NFL talk this season?!

My team, the Chicago Bears, are relevant again!!!

As a Chargers fan, I'm almost afraid to get my hopes up.

thomond2006

Where's the NFL talk this season?!

My team, the Chicago Bears, are relevant again!!!

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

I reached out to an AH mod and now I can't see the forum at all. My quality of life has since improved :pac:

The place is a cesspit. A cesspit which I too readily found myself arguing points I don't even agree.

It'll calm down again after the international window.

[Deleted User]

Clegg wrote: »

The fact there are still apologists for the Gardai in the AH forum disgusts me.

I reached out to an AH mod and now I can't see the forum at all. My quality of life has since improved :pac:

The place is a cesspit. A cesspit which I too readily found myself arguing points I don't even agree.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

It will be another generation before it changes properly. The ombudsman was only set up in 2005; there wasn't any proper avenue for complaints. I'd imagine fear as well as a lack of confidence in any meaningful response played a significant part in the lack of reporting.

It has taken the McCabe scenario to properly force the hands of the elected officials and make the public focus on the issue. I honestly think most of us were fairly happy to just trundle along and keep the status quo for the most part prior to this.

I think they’d need to replace a lot of the senior management from outside, before it really changes. Drew Harris is only one man, everything below him has evolved through this system. Especially those who run Templemore.

Buer

stephen_n wrote: »

What was done to McCabe is only a fraction of what the Garda would do to those who report them. You’d have no peace for the rest of your life. Maybe it’s changing, though I have my doubts, but many Garda believe the laws they enforce do not apply equally to them. That is a culture that didn’t develop by accident.

It will be another generation before it changes properly. The ombudsman was only set up in 2005; there wasn't any proper avenue for complaints. I'd imagine fear as well as a lack of confidence in any meaningful response played a significant part in the lack of reporting.

It has taken the McCabe scenario to properly force the hands of the elected officials and make the public focus on the issue. I honestly think most of us were fairly happy to just trundle along and keep the status quo for the most part prior to this.

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

Report what, though? Knowing people are getting off speeding fines and having access to specific information that's reportable are two very different things. Clerical sex abuse was very different as there was a victim external to the clergy, and if they talked about it, there were people external to the clergy with specific information who could have done something about it.

Some of McCabe's complaints were in relation to how the Gardaí handled their affairs with the public though with people external to the force. The final straw for him was a member of the force approaching a victim and telling him to drop his case. This is hardly something that hadn't happened elsewhere. There are plenty of issues with the Gardaí and their dealing with the public that were fully reportable.

The vast majority of Gardaí are competent and responsible public servants but I have no doubt that items like those that McCabe reported happened in every district.

In relation to the penalty points, I'm sure a strong case for nobody reporting it was the fact that it was actually beneficial to members of the public. Nobody was going to be found guilty of a motoring offence, put a call into the member of AGS they knew, have the points wiped and then report it as improper conduct. But it happened (aside from the reporting) in every town in the country, every week.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

As non-members of the clergy or a religious order, what were we supposed to do about their scandals?

Report it. Report it again. Raise the issue with your elected representative. I'm not for a second saying I'm not just as bad as anyone else in that regard, for the record. It was simply accepted by us.

I suppose the difference between omerta and fear is the insignia you have on your uniform.

What was done to McCabe is only a fraction of what the Garda would do to those who report them. You’d have no peace for the rest of your life. Maybe it’s changing, though I have my doubts, but many Garda believe the laws they enforce do not apply equally to them. That is a culture that didn’t develop by accident.

molloyjh

Zzippy wrote: »

Report what, though? Knowing people are getting off speeding fines and having access to specific information that's reportable are two very different things.

This. You can't report a general knowledge of something happening. It has to be a specific incident that can be investigated.

Given that McCabe himself said that he wouldn't do the same again if he knew what he would have gone through, you can hardly blame others for keeping their heads down. He may have been vindicated in the end, but that's 10 years of his life, and of his families lives, that will never go away.

I have to say, his wife was incredible. When kids are involved it would be so easy for this to have become a wedge between the two of them, yet she supported him fully throughout and seemed like an absolute rock for him. Fair play to them both, but they should never have had to deal with that stuff. And you could totally understand why others wouldn't want to have to go down the same road.

[Deleted User]

Interesting day ahead for Brexit. May needs everyone on board, but it looks like the right wing Tories and DUP will now have to bring down the Government.

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

As non-members of the clergy or a religious order, what were we supposed to do about their scandals?

Report it. Report it again. Raise the issue with your elected representative. I'm not for a second saying I'm not just as bad as anyone else in that regard, for the record. It was simply accepted by us.

I suppose the difference between omerta and fear is the insignia you have on your uniform.

Report what, though? Knowing people are getting off speeding fines and having access to specific information that's reportable are two very different things. Clerical sex abuse was very different as there was a victim external to the clergy, and if they talked about it, there were people external to the clergy with specific information who could have done something about it.

Buer

Zzippy wrote: »

In fairness, as non-members, what were any of us supposed to do about it?

I also have a few friends in the guards, none of them above sergeant. A couple have said to me how annoyed and frustrated they felt about how senior management treated McCabe and the whole closing ranks thing. At the same time, having seen what he went through, the overwhelming feeling was keep your mouth shut and the head down, who'd want to go through that. It's not omerta, it's fear.

As non-members of the clergy or a religious order, what were we supposed to do about their scandals?

Report it. Report it again. Raise the issue with your elected representative. I'm not for a second saying I'm not just as bad as anyone else in that regard, for the record. It was simply accepted by us.

I suppose the difference between omerta and fear is the insignia you have on your uniform.

Zzippy

Buer wrote: »

You'll be disappointed to know that this is not an unusual mindset. I haven't had a chance to watch the documentary yet but what I've heard thus far is completely unsurprising in relation to how the McCabe family were treated by both AGS and their community.

I know a few members of AGS who would be career members and reached moderate levels of seniority in their districts. I haven't spoken to them since the Charlton Report (and certainly not since the documentary aired) but the mentality of "Omerta" is the standard. McCabe was in the wrong to lift the lid, for them. They believe that this is how policing is carried out and you need to be flexible and turn some blind eyes here and there. The problem is, the blind eyes are turned purely when it suited them based on their personal preferences.

However, I always found it baffling that there was this mock indignation and shock at the corruption "revelations". The dogs on the street openly knew the penalty point situation was happening. I'm not even being facetious. Who honestly didn't know that members of AGS were wiping penalty points?

In relation to McCabe's original complaints about corruption in AGS, again were any of those genuinely surprising? McCabe has done the country a massive service by forcing us to acknowledge and discuss these items but, as a society, we were all complicit in the culture that allowed these activities to persist.

In fairness, as non-members, what were any of us supposed to do about it?

I also have a few friends in the guards, none of them above sergeant. A couple have said to me how annoyed and frustrated they felt about how senior management treated McCabe and the whole closing ranks thing. At the same time, having seen what he went through, the overwhelming feeling was keep your mouth shut and the head down, who'd want to go through that. It's not omerta, it's fear.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

The fact there are still apologists for the Gardai in the AH forum disgusts me.

You'll be disappointed to know that this is not an unusual mindset. I haven't had a chance to watch the documentary yet but what I've heard thus far is completely unsurprising in relation to how the McCabe family were treated by both AGS and their community.

I know a few members of AGS who would be career members and reached moderate levels of seniority in their districts. I haven't spoken to them since the Charlton Report (and certainly not since the documentary aired) but the mentality of "Omerta" is the standard. McCabe was in the wrong to lift the lid, for them. They believe that this is how policing is carried out and you need to be flexible and turn some blind eyes here and there. The problem is, the blind eyes are turned purely when it suited them based on their personal preferences.

However, I always found it baffling that there was this mock indignation and shock at the corruption "revelations". The dogs on the street openly knew the penalty point situation was happening. I'm not even being facetious. Who honestly didn't know that members of AGS were wiping penalty points?

In relation to McCabe's original complaints about corruption in AGS, again were any of those genuinely surprising? McCabe has done the country a massive service by forcing us to acknowledge and discuss these items but, as a society, we were all complicit in the culture that allowed these activities to persist.

Zzippy

Great documentary, well made and really showed what the McCabes went through. Fair play to them for sticking to their guns to the end, it would have broken up many marriages and finished many people off. I hope there are consequences for Callinan - what an utterly horrible individual.

Clegg

The fact there are still apologists for the Gardai in the AH forum disgusts me.

thomond2006

What was done to Maurice McCabe and his family was disgusting. Truly disgusting.

C*llinan comes across as a lowlife odious individual.
As a taxpayer I'm funding the sizeable pensions of some utter monsters.

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

Fire breaks do offer some practical relief to the spread of fires but they won't prevent them moving completely. Wind borne sparks and debris can easily spread the fire from one spot to another a significant distance away with little issue when the landscape is basically kindling.

Some trees are also liable to explode due to their natural oils and scatter burning limbs and embers a good distance away also although I believe that's more of an issue in Australia than California.

It was a massive issue in Portugal recently too. It was eucalyptus plantations that caught fire and literally exploded from the heat. They are very oil heavy trees and there were calls to stop plantig them or at least not have them near roadways. I remember driving in the Lisbon area a couple of years ago and there are miles of them right up to the road edge.

Buer

Neil3030 wrote: »

The Socal fire has already jumped over the 101, a six lane freeway. Not sure how you build a break or wall to contain that sort of determined spread.

Fire breaks do offer some practical relief to the spread of fires but they won't prevent them moving completely. Wind borne sparks and debris can easily spread the fire from one spot to another a significant distance away with little issue when the landscape is basically kindling.

Some trees are also liable to explode due to their natural oils and scatter burning limbs and embers a good distance away also although I believe that's more of an issue in Australia than California.

prawnsambo

Neil3030 wrote: »

The Socal fire has already jumped over the 101, a six lane freeway. Not sure how you build a break or wall to contain that sort of determined spread.

Where I live (central coast / North Socal), it's rained once since March, and the land has been drying out all Summer. They now reckon that with the air and ground so dry, especially in winter when humidity drops, a scuff of shoe leather can set off a wildfire. Or another common cause is a tow trailer chain left too loose, scratching off the tarmac, and creating a spark.

Californians also have to stop building houses in risk zones, and opposing controlled burns. Time to prioritise more important things than the view from your southern terrace.

Now let's just pray the rain stays away, or else the mudslides will follow....

Yeah. You need hundreds of yards to act as a firebreak. Sparks carried on the wind can travel a good distance before going out and that's how these fires can jump freeways.

stephen_n

errlloyd wrote: »

It takes 7100 litres to produce 1 litre of Almond Milk.

It’s not like the water evaporates in that process though. I can’t really wrap my head around the problem there, it’s pretty much recycling in practice. It’s not like the water being used for agriculture needs to be processed.

Buer

dregin wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-water-selling-diverting-bottled-arrowhead-san-bernardino-forest-california-a8130686.html

Forget about it, Jake.

Neil3030

The Socal fire has already jumped over the 101, a six lane freeway. Not sure how you build a break or wall to contain that sort of determined spread.

Where I live (central coast / North Socal), it's rained once since March, and the land has been drying out all Summer. They now reckon that with the air and ground so dry, especially in winter when humidity drops, a scuff of shoe leather can set off a wildfire. Or another common cause is a tow trailer chain left too loose, scratching off the tarmac, and creating a spark.

Californians also have to stop building houses in risk zones, and opposing controlled burns. Time to prioritise more important things than the view from your southern terrace.

Now let's just pray the rain stays away, or else the mudslides will follow....

dregin

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nestle-water-selling-diverting-bottled-arrowhead-san-bernardino-forest-california-a8130686.html

Zzippy

errlloyd wrote: »

It takes 7100 litres to produce 1 litre of Almond Milk.

Bloody hipsters! :mad:

errlloyd

dregin wrote: »

California's been in drought for years, massively unhelped by the fact that companies are following the dropping water table down with pipe extensions. Are nestle the main culprit there? Can't remember.

It takes 7100 litres to produce 1 litre of Almond Milk.

dregin

Squidgy Black wrote: »

They used to do an awful lot more controlled fires to try and prevent major ones like they've been having, but funding has been cut.

Also the climate change, longer summers and less rain meaning over the last couple years everything's dried up a lot.

California's been in drought for years, massively unhelped by the fact that companies are following the dropping water table down with pipe extensions. Are nestle the main culprit there? Can't remember.

Squidgy Black

They used to do an awful lot more controlled fires to try and prevent major ones like they've been having, but funding has been cut.

Also the climate change, longer summers and less rain meaning over the last couple years everything's dried up a lot.

errlloyd

One of the problems apparently is that park rangers are so good at preventing small fires, the brush never gets cleared and makes it pretty ripe for the really big fires.

irishbucsfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

Creating firebreaks would be a massive job. The Woolsey fire covers something like 200 square miles. I suppose at a minimum, creating firebreaks around towns and villages would be a start. But they'd have to be massive and constantly worked because stuff grows when the conditions are right.

There is no instant fix for sure, but the problem was decades in the making